Uncharitable charity

[undergroundpanther]

Poor people come in all races places and situations.
I thought I'd remind people what giving really is .. When someone is overwhelmed , in their private life while being poor, and they find they cannot get food heat or some other necessity they are VULNERABLE. And sometimes the help offered is not enough help or the right help. So they end up going round and round and never getting secure. The thing that IRKS me about some"helpers" out there is that they are elitists . By elitist I mean they say they want to help out desperate people while they insist on controlling a person through the charitable help they claim they just gave away..

What do I mean by this..

Well, imagine you got some person with money enough to say, buy a bag of groceries for a couple who have no food..they could just bang the door and leave it, Or they could play games.
I was reading this thread.. It got me thinking when I read some responses in that thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.ph...


When a giver puts strings on his"gift" it's not a gift. The person with money who says he wants to know how it is spent,says it because he wants to CONTROL what the people in need do with HIS money even when it is not his anymore..He isn't really giving it away than because he wants the poor person to sing for his supper. This is NOT real charity it is cherry picking elitism dressed up as charity.

True charity is just giving it away because you can spare it and someone else needs it. No strings of control, no veiled economic transactions, no singing for the supper asked for.
GIVE or don't give.Don't make giving into an economic exchange.

Don't pretend you are giving when you are demanding a 'payback'even what you say you give it free ,because that's when a gift becomes an elitist cherry picking game through charity ..More often than not the worthy person who gets your prize is based in how well the poor person conforms to your preferences and biases.

If the poor person spends it in a way that you disapprove they have not met your criteria as worthy of assistance from you,and you don't want to give to THOSE PEOPLE than admit it you are an elitist and what you are giving is not given freely because you attach a price and a preference to your "charity".

If the price of your kindness being centered upon YOUR own beliefs, what you want a poor person to DO,what you want a poor person to BE,and lastly what a poor person has to PROVE to be "worthy" of your extra stuff or cash or food It isn't all that kind anymore is it?

Rice Christian charities force poor people to pay for their help like food ,immunizations or baby formula by making desperate hungry poverty stricken people sit through sermons or videos while their stomaches growl and their children writhe in hunger or discomfort ..All so these 'christian' elitist charities can inject religion into the gift, which at that point the alleged charity giving ceases to be charity and becomes another form of economic exchange.

A poor person pays for his supper by being a captive audience,lectured by christians who are hoping to get inside his head and win a convert for jesus.The poor person is subjected to a sales pitch to pay for supper, much like the marketers who say on TV a pitch to come to this beautiful retreat weekend of fun and sun what they don't say is,so we can try to convince you to buy parcels of land in the middle of nowhere and pressure the hell out of you.

Making a person who needs or asks for help be a captive audience for a pitch be it religion or multi level marketing or forcing them to declare drug free status and how much they want a job, or declare a long humiliating list of how bad their life is going is a form of payment in humiliation or it could be demanded in attention or some other way of proving worth. By time a payment or determination of whether the poor person is WORTHY of your help,is expected,the charity you gave is not charitable anymore.

And Poor people do go through the hoops for the so called benevolent charitable givers because the charitable givers have no clue what giving away what they have to someone else in need as in charity really means.And the poor are desperate so they do go through hoops to get food or whatever they need from, the "benevolent" control freak and they feel the sting of humiliation with that hot meal.

I have had to accept charity before.
Going to a true charity I don't feel bad getting help from them because they are not about making me pay somehow for needing help they know I am stressed as it is and they ask nothing of me. They give.And I feel grateful to them. And I feel like there ARE people that are good in this world..

When it is manipulative charity I take the stuff because I am desperate I act appreciative until I get out the door. I leave hoping I NEVER have to go back to them again.And I will suffer longer without rather than go through their patronizing bullshit or religious sales pitches for what I need.

In the act of TRUE giving, one gives freely by freely I mean the giver relinquishes control over the given thing. The giver does not require a poor person give back a kind of payment or proof for the charity . Be it in paying attention to sales pitches for religion or jobs or promises of getting sober.. True charity does not put conditions on giving, it does not require the poor person to change or comply to the givers control or demands, with behavior mod ,promises to spend the money in a way the giver wants them to spend it,or some other debasing kind of humiliation.These sorts of"givers" I hate taking their help.

So if you really want to give, give it away and let it go completely out of your hands and mind ,give it away without judgments or conditions and give it and expect back NOTHING from the recipient of your gift in return.Because if you truly are giving away your help, once it leaves your hands you must recognize it is not yours anymore to control and not yours to bribe or coerce a desperate person into behaving as you would prefer.Don't use kindness as a bargaining chip.It's disgusting.


An economic exchange is not really giving..(food money for changing behavior for example). Control disguised as charity is not charitable.Bribing, poor people in exchange for food or winter gloves is like holding a dog treat up so the dog will jump for it and please his owner with his performance.
And it is disgustingly hypocritical and self deceptive on the giver's part when they do this shit.It is nothing but an attempt to control others lives through your"help" .Help and compassion is not helpful or compassionate when underneath it's kindness it wears a face of control.

[silverlib]

1. Is this the link you are discussing...

I wasn't sure if this was the one, or if it could be the one linked in this link's discussion (God, it's getting too late to type sensibly)...The link in your post does not work.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x3165851

[ninkasi]

2. Underground Panther

the link doesn't work for me, so I'm not sure which thread you're talking about. I will say, however, that when I give to charities, once the money leaves my checking account, I only ask that it be used to help those who need the help, and not to try to control them.

A good example is the drive DU had not long ago to Second Harvest. I donated, as did so many others here. I didn't ask myself whether the people who received the help were worthy or not, because the only thing I thought about was feeding the hungry.

I think that it's entirely possible that some behavior that is looked upon with scorn by some people, is behavior that is the result of feeling like a second class citizen. When we demonize some segments of our population ,when we shun and criticize them, we also remove the drive to be a productive member of society.

One example is race...if one race is discriminated against, and much more likely to be found guilty by jurors, and sentenced to longer terms by juries or judges, what compels that person, once released to society, to be a model citizen? This could be especially true if the member of a minority group is much more likely to live in poverty.

We obey laws, and follow rules, because we feel that by doing so, we will reap the benefits of being good citizens. What incentive is there to follow those rules, if as a segment of society we are discriminated against, simply by the color of our skin, or our sexual orientation? What if we are atheists, or speak broken English?

Too many times, charity is given in order to convert people to a certain way of thinking. We will feed you, not just with food, but with our message. We will help you, but only if you agree to do certain things. I have had a few hungry days in my life, although a call to my father, or one of my brothers, would have prevented this. I chose not to ask for help, but deep down inside, I always knew it was there.

For too many, there are no family members offering support, there are only agencies with different agendas offering help with strings attached. Solve the problem of poverty, of the absence of universal health care, and the pouring of trillions of dollars into waging war, and most of the problems facing us would be solved. Charity should not come with a price. The only charity worthy of the word is charity that is freely given.

Many of the homeless are alcoholics. Many of them are self medicating, by the only way available to them. There are entire families, with children, who have no home. Is this not an enormous shame in our country? What will the homeless children be like when they are grown? Don't we owe them this, a way out of poverty, and a way out of charities which offer help with conditions?

[hfojvt]

3. It may be a failing, but I cannot be that generous

I work hard for my money, doing things I do not like to do, and never made that much of it.

"True charity is just giving it away because you can spare it and someone else needs it."

How do I know that somebody else "needs" it unless I know something about their situation? There are plenty of takers in the world with their hands out, seemingly without shame of scamming a freebie.

There are also plenty of people who cause many of their own troubles. For instance, I had this really cool friend. However, she just got back from a Grateful Dead concert 1500 miles away and then went to the food bank. So first, gee whiz, there is not enough money for food when you spend it on plane tickets. Then she said that she had savings, but did not want to dip into them for this. Willing to accept a freebie that she did not 'need' though.

I do not think charity with strings is that bad. It's better than no charity at all. A lecture might be more help than just the money. If I pull somebody out of the Niagara river that they fell into while showing off walking on the railing it is a matter of concern and further help if they get some advice to keep them from ending up in that river again.

[undergroundpanther]

4. Bootstrap pulling

And "tough love" is not love . It is your bigotries, your moralizing,In reality you do not know what peoples lives are about, you do not know their feelings, motivations or struggles until, you KNOW them as people first.. Reading someones beads out of your Ass based in how they look or because you assume they created their problems is blaming and it's bullshit.Lecturing when they are vulnerable is pretty damn arrogant and assuming. I think. Help or don't help.

Didn't your mom ever tell you if you can't say something good don't say nothing?

Our country is full of hypocrites and moralistic prigs on a self responsibility kick, ignoring all the complex factors and the problem of the rich who think they do not have to give back that keeps people in so much emotional turmoil they remain poor.
Not everyone is fortunate or so psychologically optimistic or mentally healthy as you are. Your solipsism does not make it right to lecture people.

[undergroundpanther]

5. You will NEVER know

If they NEED it, you will have to either trust them and let it go .. or be a tight fisted elitist making the world colder even when you have enough to give. You wanna get a return..It's an economic exchange for you than? Than you do not understand what charity means.

Being picky makes sure you are never satisfied enough with the"quality" of the desperate enough so no one gets any OF YOUR money because YOU HAVE to HAVE control even as you gives money away. Uh Huh. Submit to the moralizing lecture on how to be an upstanding citizen like you are I see, and that poor guy better not have any PROBLEMS because YOU want a RETURN on your investment!.. Uh Huh..yeah..I won't be asking YOU for help.Because you don't know how to help. You know how to invest and to moralize about other peoples lives you do not know..

Get a sense of empathy,and let go of your insecurities. If it's spare and you want to share let it go.And be NICE.The struggling person you assume is an idiot causing his own misery might be in alot more pain and stress than he displays to you.
People tend to be ashamed when they hit the street and don't like to admit how bad it is.

Ever hear but by the grace of___ go I?

Meditate on it.

One day you could find yourself in dire straights asking for help and I bet you'd LOVE hearing about how you created your own failures ,when your life is falling apart,or mental illness eats you alive, or misfortune took it all away.Tough love applied to broken hearts has a way of biting your ass back later on.

[rubberducky]

7. I have thought this for sooo long.

You have done a very good job of putting into words, the way that charity should be. If you can`t give and walk away, then do not give. As a single mom I have been on the recieving end, but with strings from family. God help me if they found out about a "foolish" purchase! "Foolish" purchases included a "new" set of clothes for my son, instead of value village clothes. Instead of seeing the pride in his eyes this was considered "foolish". During the aftermath of Katrina, I kept shaking my head in disbelief as people delighted inhearing tales of the "foolish" spending on the debit cards these people were given. It seemed that people became far more "worked up" over the way these poor people were spending thier money, than the way our government is spending our money in Iraq.

[undergroundpanther]

12. part of spending when you have been trapped includes

Some"foolishness". For being poor is stressful as hell, it is a state of deprivation and so buying something like a nice shirt,instead of a giveaway, a cd player or a simple 15 buck silver necklace you have eyed up for months might look foolish to some person who's not feeling the grind at the moment,but to the poor person who has been worn down by it all it is a small dream made true.It's all about having empathy for others enough to trust them. When you can empathize with how poverty is so often a tool of extortion through'debt and economic exchange used to subjugate, humiliate and abuse and yes even terrorize people in poverty and threaten conformity and reinforce elitism in those not in poverty but are close enough to it to fear it worse than death. When you don't judge so quick when a portion of your gift is spent on a little 'foolishness' you realize people are human. Poverty is a form of abuse and it hurts.
Life is short,and greed and arrogant "charity" makes it nastier to be alive if you don't have much. If you think a poor person's nose must always be on the grindstone to prove his worthiness for love care or help ever ask yourself how it feels, ever consider how long until that grind stone destroys the nose and starts ripping into the brain through a grinding pain and threat? You see that poverty is trauma and if you suffer without relief you lose hope..and it begins playing havoc with the emotional state.

So who is anyone to tell anyone else what is "foolish". A nice shirt may be the one thing to make a humiliated person feel more like a human being.Is THAT foolish?

[hfojvt]

9. I would have to admit that's true

since I quit my good paying job for the military industrial complex.

However, it's kinda tough for me to be an elitist since I am in the middle of the lowest quintile income-wise. "If there is a lower class, I am in it." Yet I am willing and able to give my time and money to help others because I know how to control my spending and manage my finances. Out of my low income I still rented a car and drove 40 miles to protest the Iraqi war in 2003.

I do not see how it is tough love to try to teach people to fish or to advise them not to put their hand in various rat-traps of life.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt

I do have control over how I give my money away, because it is my money until I choose to give it away. You seem to want to control how I choose to spend my time and money, and to attack those who disagree with you. Not enough love and understanding in the world. I disagree with you, and you attack me. Not attacking you back, just pointing out facts.

[TexasProgresive]

6. True charity is giving out of love and has nothing to do with

surplus. Jesus wasn't impressed by all the big offerings but rather the widow who gave the 2 mites. Her gift was greater because she gave out of her need whereas the other gave out of their wealth.

[bobbolink]

15. And all I ask of you.....

is that you be in their shoes for a while.

It's this "us" and "them" that causes the problems.

When you start seeing that it could be YOU, then the perception, and the compassion, changes.

[rubberducky]

8. Thank you for this thoughtful post!

And here is a big K&R for you!

[Midlodemocrat]

10. A gift not given freely becomes a debt.

If you can't give without strings, it is better not to give at all. Don't make the recipient 'grovel' and thank you over and over.

[undergroundpanther]

11. Exactly my point.

[fionna]

13. Giving

When I was 4 until I left home at 15 the Salvation Army used to leave food parcels outside our door. I only found out because one day I saw one of them leaving. Our eyes met but they passed without comment and that was that.

Years later homeless on the streets of London I would have to listen for an hour and a half to a priest telling us how pointless our lives were and how the only way we could ever be complete was if we became a member of the god squad – THEN, and only then did the charity allow us some food.

Years later I studied for my business degree and our set texts included the works of Han Fei Tzu who recommended ensuring the happiness of people as a tool for reducing their threat and maintaining control – like the priest and his earned food. I also thought about how different these foods tasted because of the spirit it was prepared and given in. I quit, changed to art and now, eight years later, lecture at a University in Western Australia. Every year I donate a scholarship anonymously. It has been set up so that I am totally distanced from it in name and influence. I don’t want to know who gets it or what they study or what happens to them. I can afford to give the money and what happens after that is none of my business.

However, everything we do is for ourselves, and when I give that money I am giving to myself; the street kid who had to smile, nod and be grateful for an hour and a half for a bowl of soup.

[Sapphire Blue]

14. fionna, I am honored to welcome you to DU!

:hi: :hi: :hi:

A :hug: to "the street kid who had to smile, nod and be grateful for an hour and a half for a bowl of soup" and more :hug: :hug: :hug: to who you are today.

[bobbolink]

16. I'm so very glad you've joined us at DU, fionna!

Welcome! :toast:

What a beautifully written piece on poverty, and I hope to see much more from you!

:applause:

[Cleita]

17. This is why I disapprove of charity as a substitute for what

should be the government's duty to provide survival security for its people. People in need should be able to have an agency to go to for assistance when they fall on hard times, whether it's for food, shelter, health care or employment. I believe if society through our government provides the necessities like access to health care and education, and if it has a crisis management agency, where people can go to get help with shelter, food, heating and employment it gives everyone a basis to build on their lives and acheive their dreams.

Charity IMHO abrogates societies obligation for this. People adopt a let them do it attitude and maybe I will give them some money to do it. The problem is that even the best of charities must spend a lot of money on fund raising, and for the most part their focus is narrow and often not universal, so many people who need help fall through the cracks and don't get it. Then there are those with an agenda like you mentioned, the I will do this for you if you promise to do this for me in essence forces people in need to beg for help.

Now I'm not saying that charity doesn't have a place in our society. I think that they can provide help beyond the necessities. Habitat for Humanity is one of these. For families who must live in apartments, it gives them the opportunity to own their own home. Scolarships to prestigious learning institutions would be another use. But neither of these charitable offerings should be substitutes for basic shelter and public schools.