Something I never really thought of, not having kids myself

[Lydia Leftcoast]

Tonight I worked at my church's Monday night meal for homeless and working poor youth (defined as people under 30). Today, I sat with two young mothers, both of whom have completed community college but still come for the free meals every Monday. Why? Well, one is having trouble finding a full-time job. The other--and this surprised me--is still struggling, even though she's working as a nurse. The problem is child care. She says it takes nearly half her monthly income, especially since she doesn't have a steady shift yet and often has to work nights and weekends.

We really ought to have public day care in this country--they do in many municipalities in Japan, and the fees are based on parental income. If you're new to the workforce, the first year is FREE, and then they determine your fees by income each year.

[gateley]

1. I don't quite understand

how it got this way, but we've let our citizens down in so many ways. Your story is an excellent example of that. Thanks for posting and for giving of yourself to help these people.

[Double T]

2. When MEN are calling the shots and making the decisions...........

THIS is the kind of thing that will be intentionally overlooked and forgotten. If a WOMAN was making the decisions I'll guarantee YOU that this kind of thing would NOT be overlooked and forgotten! It is TIME for a female decider. Thanks OP for YOUR KIND and GOOD work!!

[bobbolink]

8. oh, right.

Margaret Thatcher comes to mind.

:crazy:

[knitter4democracy]

41. It depends on the woman.

Phyllis Schlafley, to go extreme, would be worse.

[Duke Newcombe]

3. Personally, the better places to work...

...see that providing in house child care for their staff isn't a cost center, but a perq that actually enhances productivity, morale, and actually enables people to stay at work LONGER. This, unfortunately (and I categorically reject the accusation of sexism by a more recent poster), that this avenue, since it would cost $$$ up front, is seen as a cost center and a liability, and one that male OR female decisionmakers would not touch, at least unless it was incentivized.

Duke

[bobbolink]

9. I urge you to read "Nickel And Dimed". I urge you to fully read what

the result has been of the disastrous welfare deform.

I will assume that you don't really mean that only those who work in the "better places" deserve justice.

[Duke Newcombe]

13. You assume correctly...

...although I'll admit I'm not sure how "justice" gets wrapped up into this.

Furthermore, my comment was more an indictment of shortsighted business, not the working poor.

Is there a particular reason for the chip on the shoulder response, or just a general frustration with this situation. I ask for informational purposes only.

Duke

[bobbolink]

14. If you're not sure where justice is in this, then there's not much to discuss.

And I still encourage you to read "Nickel and Dimed".

[Duke Newcombe]

15. Thanks...I'll put it on the...

...ever-growing "books to check out" list I accumulate from DU. It does sound interesting, from the snippet I've seen of it.

As far as the justice component--I've see too many redistribution schemes cloaked with the "justice" descriptor I guess...so much so that is lessens it's appeal and impact in matters of true "justice" and inequity. Your mileage may vary, of course.

Duke

[bobbolink]

16. I'm sure my mileage varies greatly from yours.

And you're quite welcome to walk in my shoes for those miles....

[Duke Newcombe]

17. Um...okay...sure.

:crazy:

Duke

[bobbolink]

18. thank you ever so kindly for your liberal sneeeer.

My offer to change places with you stands.

[knitter4democracy]

42. What kind of jobs are you thinking of?

When I was a high school teacher, we never had child care on site. The only kinds of jobs I can think of with that kind of situation are corporate-type jobs or super-big hospitals, I guess. Maybe universities.

McJobs, service jobs, retail, K-12 education, travelling sales--I can't see how a company could provide childcare there, and that's the majority of the workforce today.

[silverweb]

4. This is not at all new, but it's gotten worse.

I raised both my children alone and child care was always my biggest expense after rent.

My son was a "latchkey kid" from the age of 8; thank goodness he still managed to avoid the many pitfalls facing such children and grew into a superlative man.

I was "fortunate" to be on disability for a while while my daughter was young and was able to stay home with her for that period; however, the irony is that I'm convinced the financial stress and worry, largely because of daycare expenses, contributed greatly to my illness.

My situation resolved some years ago, but child care costs have only risen over the years along with everything else. I really don't know how some young mothers make it at all these days.

Yes, we should have a real plan for free or very affordable child care for working parents. It's the very same reTHUG pigs who vote against child care help and Head Start programs who like to blame all of society's ills on single mothers struggling to care for and support their children without assistance.

[FirstLight]

5. I am right there right now....

I have three kids, one is 15 and two are under 6...

I have an AA and Much work experience in publishing and journalism... but can't keep a "steady" 40 hour week job due to continued illness due to stress and PTSD after leaving an abusive relationship.
4 years later, I am struggling to make bills (rent & utilities only, the rest have to wait..)and put food on the table...I have subsidized childcare, but every month I have to account for every hour I use childcare that I am not "on the clock" (oh, and I miss work constantly to deal with specialists visits and illness related to my 6 yr old daughters' birth defect that has left her blind in one eye and with more brain issues...they just found a cyst in her temporal lobe the size of an egg)...lost the 40 hr a week job I had in 2006 due to this diagnosis for her.
I only recently began seeking medical help for MY health issues, thinking "if I could just be stronger ..and push through" And I hope to be on the mend and able to take on more side jobs ...and get us out of this hole!

That remains to be seen. Honestly, if I didn't have help with rent, childcare, or helpful family or a great church, we'd be even worse off than we are.

I have a church member who brings us leftovers from the bread & broth sometimes. I am also starting to grow our own food this year (mountain climate, short season, but what the hell? It'll make me feel proactive)

[silverweb]

6. You have my empathy & respect.

I was a single mom because I left an abusive husband, as well, and the long-term repercussions from that alone make life difficult enough. And I know about risking a job because of the children; I was nearly fired several times because I left work to deal with a sick or injured child when the school called, or because I stayed home with a sick child.

The "pro-family" bastards think these problems are of our own making, and we should either have stayed with the abuser to make a "whole family" or should "pull yourself up by your own bootstraps" (someone actually said that to me!) It's always the woman's fault to them.

I wish you the best in all your struggles, and hope that you're soon able to get more help for both your daughter and yourself. :hug:

[knitter4democracy]

43. Wow. That's awful.

Thank goodness you have a support network, but no one should lose a job because of a child's health problems. No one should ever be in the situation of having trouble paying for housing or food.

:hug: You are a strong, amazing person, and I know that your kids see it, even if it seems like they don't. My mom was single for most of my formative years, and I'll always respect her for surviving with what grace she could and developing the support network she needed. You have a core of strength in you, and that's amazing, but you also have to take care of yourself. You are my hero! :hug:

[bobbolink]

10. Other countries do this. The US is in the dark ages.

and please, let's stop blaming it all on the RW.

Remember that it was a Dem president who instituted welfare deform as a political move on his part, and it has cause much misery and God only knows how many deaths.

We MUST start being honest about our own party in this.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. Oh, I don't follow any simplistic "Repubs bad, Dems good" ideology

The Republicanites couldn't have done their damage without a lot of complicit Dems.

It was because of welfare "reform" and NAFTA that I voted for Nader in 1996 and came within three days of voting for him in 2000, until I decided that Bush was really, really scary.

[bobbolink]

12. Actually I was replying to another post that did put the onus on the RW

That serves nothing.

So, I agree with you on that.

And, please read "Nickel And Dimed".

Especially the last part:

"Disapproval and condescension no longer apply, so what outlook makes sense?
"Guilt, you maybe thinking warily. Isn't that what we're supposed to feel? But guilt doesn't go anywhere near far enough; the appropriate emotion is shame--same at our own dependency, in this case, on the underpaid labor of others. When someone works for less pay than she can live on--when for example, she goes hungry so that you can eat more cheaply and conveniently--then she has made a great sacrifice for you, she has made you a gift of some part of her abilities, her health, and her life. The "working poor", as they are approvingly termed, are in fact the major philanthropist of our society. They neglect their own children so that the children of others will be cared for; they live in substandard housing so that other homes will be shiny and perfect; they endure privation so that inflation will be low and stock prices high. To be a member of the working poor is to be an anonymous donor, a nameless benefactor, to everyone else."

[silverweb]

19. You're right.

The Democrats are to blame, as well, for not being much more aggressive. However, it is the RW that blocks any progressive reforms the Democrats attempt. Those votes are almost always straight down party lines.

It is the RW that's always screaming about "sanctity of the family" and blaming society's ills on single mothers, while continuing to grind us under their heel. In my experience and humble opinion, the onus does belong more heavily on the RW.

I did read Nickled and Dimed when it came out and passed my copy on to a home health worker, who then got it circulating among the women at her church. I need to pick up another copy and re-read it. Barbara Ehrenreich is on the money in that as well as pretty much everything else she writes.

[bobbolink]

20. WHERE do you see these issues prominently displayed and ACTIVELY pushed?

It's sure not at DU!

It's sure not in any Dem meeting I've seen!

It's sure not in the conventions! (County, state or federal...)

It's sure not in "progressive" magazines, or "progressive" blogs!

It's sure not on "progressive" radio! (Actually, I had an AAR commentator tell me poverty just isn't "sexy" enough, and doesn't sell!)

Since you want to blame it all on the "blocking" of the RW, can you please tell me where I can go to be among Dems and "progressives" who are ACTIVELY working on these issues?

Do you see anybody on this thread taking up the banner and getting outraged and saying "We gotta do something about this?"

Can you pleeeeez point me in the right direction, because I'm DYING to be among those who see this as desperately important!

Now, glad you got the book, and glad you are sharing it. Maybe, just maybe, it will open some eyes. Thank you for doing that.

[silverweb]

21. Without going on an extensive search...

...that I really don't have time for, I can refer you immediately to the most recent Head Start and SCHIP debates as examples of what's been happening.

I don't know what's going on at local Dem meetings and I don't follow all of this in specific detail. However, I am on a lot of different mailing lists for these and other issues, and I do know that whenever a legislative debate or vote comes up, it's the reTHUGs who are holding things up and the Dems who are caving. This is cumulative awareness, but I really can't be more specific at this time.

If you want specific information and activist groups to get involved with, I'd recommend doing a search for child care advocacy groups, etc.

[bobbolink]

22. sigh... it's not about a "search". It's about the people right near you, in your churches,

in your local party, in your clubs.

If you have to do a "search" for it, then it isn't really very accessible, is it?

I don't see everyday people involved with this, talking about this, etc.

When it becomes as important a topic as the war, which doesn't need a "search" because everyone talks about it, THEN there will be some movement on it.

Until then, when it's hidden and has to be ferreted out, it's lost.

[silverweb]

23. You were the one asking, not me.

My kids are grown and I live in Mexico, so your comments don't apply to my situation. I don't know what's being talked about at local party meetings, churches, and clubs in the U.S. because I'm not there.

I suspect a lot of single working moms aren't there, either, because they don't have time. I know I sure was far too busy (1) working, (2) taking care of my kids, and (3) trying to keep to a minumum the child care I HAD to have. Who under those circumstances has the time and/or energy to attend meetings?

[Obamanaut]

36. There is 'free or very affordable child care' available. We have

it in my county. My granddaughter uses it for her child. Surely my small community is not unique.

[knitter4democracy]

46. Not unique, but not common.

In our city, there's a program, but the waiting list is so long that most people who need it can't get it. The other places cost a lot more. Most people use unlicensed daycare providers who run it out of their homes, and we've had many cases of babysitters killing kids and hurting them badly.

Not everyone has a free program that is 24/7 and available for everyone.

[bobbolink]

7. Read "Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich. Better yet, have it as a book study

for your church group!

It should open your eyes to the realities.

[midnight]

24. I have been saying this for twenty-three years. If we can

subsidize big business we can subsidize little kids.

[TexasBushwhacker]

25. If we're going to provide funding for child care ....

why don't we start providing education on not getting pregnant until you can afford to raise the children. Educate girls AND boys about abstinence, contraception, and the cost of raising children. Far too many children are born to parents who are far too young. One of the biggest risk factors for poverty is young parenthood.

[bobbolink]

26. Thanks for the commercial from the Heritage Foundation.

:puke:

[TexasBushwhacker]

28. Are you suggesting those things are a bad idea?

Please note, I didn't say education INSTEAD of child care. I said education IN ADDITION to child care.

Thanks for reminding me that you will always bitch, and never provide any suggestions for real solutions.

[bobbolink]

29. You have the RW talking points down very well, including the name calling.

Very good.

[TexasBushwhacker]

30. And you still haven't answered my question

or offered any suggestions for solutions to the problem.

[bobbolink]

31. You're giving the same script.

[sandnsea]

34. Half the country makes less than $30,000 a year

Guess what. They'll never be able to afford child care and health care and life insurance and a retirement plan and college savings, and to pay the bills every month too.

[Obamanaut]

38. Well allrighty then. Seems to me that if they already know going

into that they cannot afford child care, they they should not be having children. Having children makes for a long-term, costly undertaking and prudent people should not have them until they can be afforded. Anything else and it APPEARS that they are going to rely on 'government' (that's our dollars) to bail them out.

[KSinTX]

37. It must be a Texas thing, bushwhacker

I agree with your point wholeheartedly. Not a right thing or a left thing, just the proper thing. The very idea of subsidizing poor choices only reinforces them. I have chosen to not have children and cannot understand supporting those who bear children as a choice in this the Year 2008.

[knitter4democracy]

44. Subsidizing poor choices?!

You don't think that reproductive choice is a basic human right? You don't think that children are our future and, as such, deserve society's support?

[bobbolink]

27. That is so very true. NOW>.. what about the rest of us? Should I just hurl myself

off a cliff because I'm not a cute little kid?

" Finally, it should be noted that the largest federal housing assistance program is the entitlement to deduct mortgage interest from income for tax purposes. In fact, for every one dollar spent on the low income housing programs, the federal treasury loses four dollars to housing-related tax expenditures, 75% of which benefit households in the top fifth of income distribution. More over, in 1994 the top fifth of households received 61% of all federal housing benefits (tax and direct), while the bottom fifth recieved only 18%. Thus, federal housing policy has not responded to the needs of low-income households, while disproportionately benefitting the wealthiest Americans. "

p.90 Poverty And The Homeless Mary E. Williams, Editor 2004

[Mabel Dodge]

32. My SO and I made that decision in 1985

We took a look at the world in 1985 and couldn’t justify bringing kids into it then. Over population was our biggest reason, but as time went on, some very personal reasons reinforced our decision. My SO became disabled and I became the provider for both of us.

Now looking back, it was the best decision we could have made. We can provide for ourselves physically and financially, not something we could have done with children.

There are plenty of children on this earth, there is no shortage. Think about the impact the child will have on the world, on you, on your SO, and what impact the times will have on your child.

I believe times are getting tougher, I hope I'm wrong but if I had it to do all over again I'd make the same decision, just my two cents worth.

[sandnsea]

33. You never really thought about child care??

I am honestly speechless.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

35. Since I don't have kids, it's not on my mind a lot

and I have no personal experience with trying to find it. That's what I meant.

[Obamanaut]

39. We do have what you described in your second paragraph. I

googled "subsidized child care" and got 1,370,000 possibles. I selected one at random, and it showed me some charts showing child care as low as $5/week based on family size and gross income. It also told me that incomes under those listed in the charts have no fee.

[knitter4democracy]

45. That's not available everywhere or for every shift.

We have a free childcare in Kalamazoo (where we lived before here), but it's only for four hours a day in the middle of the day. No third shift coverage, no real hours at all. The other places in town are better at preparing the kids for school and cost quite a bit more.

Then, there are the rural areas. Rural poverty is off-the-charts awful, and they are usually lucky to get any kind of childcare at all.

Just this week, I had to watch a friend's son, feed him lunch and morning snack, and get him to school because his mom was given less than 24 hours notice of a shift change. I did it as a favor to help her out, knowing she'd help me, but I wondered what people do in that kind of a situation. In many daycares and preschools, you sign up for set hours, and you pay through the nose for extra hours, and even then, they're not at night.

[knitter4democracy]

40. I quit to stay home with our kids--most of my salary would've gone to childcare.

At the time, I was a teacher in the Catholic schools, and we were already using med school loans to help cover some living expenses, so when I got preggers and started looking around, I was shocked to find out that staying home would only cost five grand more in med school loans than staying in the classroom. Given that I was sick and tired of the political crap and whiny kids, it was an easy choice.

National healthcare and national childcare. Those would lift so many out of grinding poverty right there, and it might encourage some to take jobs they wouldn't normally with lower pay to make our society stronger.

[EFerrari]

47. I was promoted to management at ATT and even then

the difference in my take home and my daycare for two was $60. That meant I was communting 90 minutes both ways and leaving my kids in mindnumbing holding pens for $60, every week. That also meant the kids were commuting with me and getting the leftovers of me when we all finally got home. Ridiculous, wasteful, stupid.