Even the poor make too much to get a public defender

[undeterred]

By STEVEN ELBOW | The Capital Times | [e-mail] | Posted: Monday, January 25, 2010 5:00 am |

So you’re scraping by on minimum wage, and your hours were cut to 25 per week. You managed to put $300 in the bank, and you drive a beater you bought for $2,000. That puts you in the federal poverty bracket. But according to the state public defender, if you’re arrested, you won’t qualify for a public defender. If your boss cuts your hours to nine, you still wouldn’t qualify.

State Public Defender Nicholas Chiarkas calls the standards used to assess whether the poor can qualify for assistance from his office “an embarrassment.” They haven’t been updated or adjusted for inflation since 1987 and are the most stringent in the nation, he says. You have to be dirt poor to qualify.

Further, the standards force cash-strapped counties to foot the bill for appointing lawyers for defendants who would undergo substantial hardship if they were forced to pay for their own legal representation. The state’s Legislative Fiscal Bureau found that statewide, Wisconsin counties shelled out about $6 million in 2008 — the most recent figures available — to hire attorneys for the poor.

Pending legislation in both the state Senate and the Assembly would expand the eligibility criteria so that a single person who earns less than 115 percent of the federal poverty level, or $259.50 per week, would qualify. Those are the same criteria for the Wisconsin Works program, which provides aid and employment support to the poor.

http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/crime_and_courts/article_2c71115d-4911-573a-9ba1-f57dd82f862f.html

This is the state of things in Wisconsin. Anyone know how it is in your state?

[Captain Hilts]

1. In Virginia they don't give a damn about the poor being defended. nt

[RaleighNCDUer]

6. Well, that's OK. The poor are guilty - if they weren't, they wouldn't be poor.

So why defend them?

[bobbolink]

12. I understand your point. But, can you understand how your flippancy sounds to poor people?

This is actually the most serious problem we face. Could you please take it seriously?

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. Oh, I take it seriously all right. I'm working two jobs, F/T and P/T, and

yet I know that if I were hit with a $2500 legal fee it would take me three years to pay it off. I know the working poor - I AM the working poor, and I also know I'm well off compared to a great many.

It may or may not be 'the most serious problem we face' (IMO, the recent SCOTUS decision holds that slot) but it is definitely in the top five, and it may well be the most serious one which nobody is doing anything about.

[bobbolink]

16. And, heres the deal.... everything now is about "WORKING POOR", but those of us

who are too old, or too sick or too injured to work are left totally invisible.

I find none of that humorous.

I also recognize that the SCOTUS decision is much more important to most of you, but that means that the deaths of a lot of us just don't register.

Can you, somewhere in your heart, understand what that does to us?

[undeterred]

19. I agree.

The left has accepted the demonization of people who don't work to the point where we can't even acknowledge it when there is 10% unemployment.

Non home-owners and single people are not very visible either.

[bobbolink]

20. Thank you for understanding. BUT, I'm not even talking about "unemployment", as that

gets a lot of attention and a lot of sympathy.

I'm talking about those of us who were hit by this a long time ago.. we are FORGOTTEN AND IGNORED in all of this.

I'm talking about People Too Old To Work, Too Sick To Work, Too Injured To Work. What do all of you want to happen to US?

[undeterred]

21. I think most people assume that those

who are too old to work are retired and collecting Social Security, and that people who are to sick to work are getting Social Security Disability income. Not everyone who applies for disability gets approved, of course. And Social Security may not amount to much; For someone who did not spend much time paying into it, there is not enough to live on.

I'd rather live in a society where everyone was guaranteed the right to eat, have housing, and health care.

[bobbolink]

22. And its those assumptions that are causing so much homelessness.

But I have given up thinking it will ever matter.

[undeterred]

23. If you want people to see beyond that

you have to give a voice to the experience that is invisible to the rest of us. Just because people don't know doesn't mean they won't listen or care.

[bobbolink]

24. Right. I've NEVER made myself vulnerable to viscious attacks by "giving voice" to my experience.

I've NEVER posted facts, stats, or any other info.

When people want to be ignorant of that which threatens them, it doesn't matter how much you blame the victim, they will NOT hear.

[Captain Hilts]

18. Trust me, someone from Carolina has heard nothing good about how VA does this. nt

[no limit]

2. I thought it was always everyone's constitutional right to have a public defender?

No matter what income you have.

[undeterred]

3. That's what people are told when arrested.

The following is a minimal Miranda warning, as outlined in the Miranda v Arizona case.

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law. You have the right to speak to an attorney, and to have an attorney present during any questioning. If you cannot afford a lawyer, one will be provided for you at government expense.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The following is a much more verbose Miranda warning, designed to cover all bases that a detainee might encounter while in police custody. A detainee may be asked to sign a statement acknowledging the following.

You have the right to remain silent and refuse to answer questions. Do you understand?
Anything you do say may be used against you in a court of law. Do you understand?
You have the right to consult an attorney before speaking to the police and to have an attorney present during questioning now or in the future. Do you understand?
If you cannot afford an attorney, one will be appointed for you before any questioning if you wish. Do you understand?
If you decide to answer questions now without an attorney present you will still have the right to stop answering at any time until you talk to an attorney. Do you understand?
Knowing and understanding your rights as I have explained them to you, are you willing to answer my questions without an attorney present?

http://www.usconstitution.net/miranda.html

Maybe its time for this to be challenged in court.

[no limit]

4. Right, but that says that everyone is entitled to a public defender, no?

I'm in the middle class, and in reality I probably couldn't afford a lawyer at this time. So does that mean I'm shit out of luck if the police decided to fuck with me?

[undeterred]

5. A good criminal lawyer is way out of reach for most people.

No, I don't think everyone is entitled to a lawyer- only if you do not have the means to afford one, which is determined by some pretty low standards.

The state could face a suit from the ACLU if they do not provide representation for indigent defendants so Wisconsin is trying to fix this. But you have to be pretty damn poor to be indigent.

The bad economy means more indigent people and more crime. My fear is that while releasing dangerous offenders early to save money, the prisons will fill up with poor people who could not afford decent representation.

[RaleighNCDUer]

7. Everyone is entitled to a lawyer - but everyone is not entitled to a public defender.

The problem is the difference between what the defendant says he can afford and what the court says he can afford. If the court says he is not eligible for a public defender, his not having a lawyer is, obviously (to the system), his choice to go without representation.

[undeterred]

10. And what kind of a lawyer can you get at 120% of the federal poverty level?

What kind of health insurance? What kind of housing?

:banghead:

[RaleighNCDUer]

11. Exactly. It is not the entitlement that is the problem but the American

lack of recognition of what poverty really looks like. Those standards need to be raised, tremendously. Of course, part of that recognition would entail the recognition that the minimum wage is NOT a living wage - that it might be the minimum allow to be paid, but it is far below the minimum needed to live on.

[bobbolink]

25. What about disability... do you think most people on disability get enough to live on?

I'm determined to keep reminding all of you that it isn't just WORKING people, for gawd's sake.

There ARE others of us who are poor.

Please don't forget about US.

[mrcheerful]

15. But it leaves out one very important fact, well 2 actually. 1.) by refusing to answer questions

you will be arrested until you can see a judge who then decides if you get a public defender, in which case the police most likely won't question you unless its something like bank robbery or murder. 2.) Anything you say can and will be used against you in a court of law, meaning that anything you say that proves your innocent will be ignored. Police often use the tactic of telling the perp that if they answer questions the police will stand up for them, that is a lie, same as when a cop tells you he wants to "help" you, yeah he wants to help you right into prison. The bottom line is if you get targeted as a criminal by the police, keep your mouth shut, go to jail and hope you get a public defender that will fight for you and not pressure you into coping a plea.

There is a big false hood in this country, innocent people have nothing to hide, yes they do. The police are not your friend, they will not protect or serve and they are only concerned about solving a case as quickly as possible and leave it up to the judge to decide who's innocent.

[mrcheerful]

9. You thought wrong. The whole justice system is slanted not only against the poor but also

slanted against justice, the current justice system is about convictions. From the police to the judge to the public defender, everything works against the poor and minorities who are often under educated on how the system works. A high number of cases are often pushed through the court starting with police "interviews", by calling interrogations "interviews" many states have found a way around the Miranda laws and the poor uneducated often find themselves confessing to crimes they didn't commit. Police often lie and trick people into confessions, in fact the biggest lie police tell folks is they want the "truth".

Then theres the pubic defender who pushes the defendant into taking plea bargains because the case is going to lead to prison sentences, probation/house arrest is better then prison. Often the public defender has so many cases to deal with he only glances at the person he's defending paper work and if the person talked to police without a lawyer confessing to the crime then he won't bother with defending so often the case is decided before it ever goes before a judge. Then theres the judge him/herself, I have heard them advise defendants that they take the plea bargain or face harsher sentences for wasting the courts time by going to trial instead of taking the plea.

Then theres the jury, very few people sit on a jury without having a thought about guilt or innocence, most believe the defendant is guilty of something because he wouldn't be in court or arrested if he was innocent, besides the police have a confession from the defendant. It's really amazing how most Americans don't realize that they are at risk of being imprisoned for crimes they didn't commit, oh I don't do anything illegal, but they have a limited knowledge of all the laws they could be breaking without knowing theres a law against what they do.

[bobbolink]

17. Excuse me? I am FAR from being "undereducated".

These stereotypes need to be dispensed with.

I recognize that you qualified it, but nevertheless, it is there, and you must realize that we ALL have those assumptions ACTED ON AGAINST US, even though they don't fit.

[TransitJohn]

26. LOL

Do you also believe the press to be impartial? :rofl:
:hi:

[Jkid]

8. If you make under $50,000 a year you should get a public defender.

Not every one can afford a decent attorney.

[undeterred]

13. People can't even afford bankruptcy attorneys

when they need one.