Vegetarian/Vegan Myths (#1 - You need meat to get enough protein)

[Elad]

(I realize that this isn't necessarily news to most, if not all of you here in this forum, but I feel that this type of organization of information into one spot can be helpful)

Vegetarian/Vegan Myths (#1)

If you've been vegetarian for more than, oh, a week, chances are good that someone has responded to the news of your diet with an incredulous look and exclaimed, "But where do you get your protein??" This is part of the larger myth of weak, sickly, pale and thin vegetarians running around starving themselves of protein and other essential nutrients, but I'm going to focus on protein for now.

I think that this myth stems from a lack of understanding about nutrition. Meat is often touted as "the" source of protein, and when people are told that over and over again, starting with parents or grade-school health classes, it's easy to see why a lot of people think you need meat to get enough protein. Of course, nothing could be farther from the truth.

Practically every actual food (as opposed to processed, flavored, "test tube" foods) out there has protein in it. For example, a potato is 11% protein (based on calories), my instant oatmeal has 4 grams protein per packet, my pasta has 7, spinach and broccoli have 5-6 grams, and these are just examples from vegan foods that are considered "low protein." Beans (15-30 grams), tofu (25-50 grams), brown rice and other whole grains (5 - 20 grams), lentils (18 grams), veggie burgers (12 - 20 grams), whole wheat bread/bagels/etc (8 - 12 grams), peas (9 grams), peanut butter (10 grams), and nuts (5 - 12 grams) are all even higher.

The ideal amount of protein people should consume per day varies based on bodyweight and activity level. Bigger people and people who are very active require more protein. We can discern a good average, though, and say a 175-pound male should consume approximately 80 grams of protein a day (based on the RDA formula of .36 grams of protein for every pound that you weigh). For women, the number would be closer to about 65 grams, based on a 140-pound woman.

It's easy to see, then, how all those grams of protein add up throughout the day to provide more than enough protein without much, if any, thought put into it. I'll use myself as an example. I'm a very active, 180-pound vegan male. I work out, go on hikes, bike rides, lift weights, and will soon be starting martial arts classes 6 days a week, so my protein requirements are on the high side. A typical day's diet for me looks similar to this:

Breakfast:
Banana (1 gram)
2 packets oatmeal (8 grams)

Lunch:
Organic canned lentil soup (20 grams)
Misc fruit (2 grams)

After workout snack:
Veggie burger on sprouted grain bread w/spinach (30 grams)

Dinner:
Tofu/veggie stir-fry over whole grains (brown rice, millet) or pasta (35 grams)

Night time snack:
Whole wheat pita with hummus (15 grams)
OR
Gardenburger sausage (15 grams)
OR
Vegetarian spring rolls (12 grams)
OR
Apple with peanut butter (20 grams)

Total: 96 - 116 grams approximately depending on the late-night snack. And this is just one example, and is actually on the low end of what I eat. Normally I'll pack in another snack or something.

Finally, further debunking the myth that you need meat to get enough protein and be strong and healthy are some of my favorite vegan athletes below. They sure don't look pale, sickly, weak and lacking in protein to me. :)

Brendan Brazier (vegan, professional Ironman tri-athlete)
http://www.brendanbrazier.com/



A professional Ironman triathlete since 1998, Brendan is the 2003 and 2006 Canadian 50km Ultra Marathon Champion.

Kenneth Williams (vegan bodybuilder, personal trainer, spokesman for In Defense of Animals)

http://www.veganmusclepower.com



From winning my first championship competition to making team USA and competing in the Natural Olympia, being a vegan athlete has changed my life. This lifestyle opens new opportunities every day. (link)

Robert Cheeke (vegan bodybuilder)

http://www.veganbodybuilding.com

[flvegan]

1. Personal experience makes me think

That this is the post least open to debate on DU right now. Like Elad, I'm a fairly active vegan. I'm 6 days a week in the gym, and to be honest, amongst the 4pm to 6pm crowd, I'm the most muscular guy there. I did shoulders and calves today. Largely free-weights for the delts, but for the calves, I got on the calf-raise sled and the standing calf raise machine.

The sled only holds 12 plates...540 lbs plus my bodyweight. Did it for reps on my 3rd and 4th set.

The standing calf raise machine...for reps, the whole stack PLUS 105 lbs of plates stacked on top. My calves are almost exactly 1" smaller than Arnold's were when he won his last Mr. Olympia.

Tomorrow is back/lats day. Can't wait...

I'm just another weak, pathetic vegan, I guess.

[Robeson]

2. I'm just amazed that this is still an issue....

...when dealing with carnivores, it's like they plug their ears up while going lalala-lalala...

The fact that there are many sources of protein, outside of meat, is a no-brainer.

[peacebuzzard]

3. (chuckling) you guys are funny...

Just heard someone tonight ask a vegan coworker how he got his protein. (Lalalala) meanwhile she is snacking on everything in sight.

(sigh) due to my pay cuts and longer hours at work, I had to make some cuts of my own, and my gym dues went first. I really miss the lap swimming. But I do not have the time now, since we are working longer hours for less pay.

But my recent conversion to vegan has given me a surprise surge of energy & vitality and I am noticing some important health improvements. I have now incorporated yoga into my down time.

I envy your luxury workouts!

[NMMNG]

4. They've just been fed propaganda all of their lives

"You need your protein. To get your protein eat lots of meat, and drink lots of milk!"

So after being fed this year after year by the Meat and Dairy Industries, is it any wonder they have no clue that veggies, fruits, legumes and virtually every other non-animal food contain protein--sometimes in great abundance?

[Ilsa]

5. Wonderful thread! Thanks, Elad!

My youngest son has gone vegetarian unconsciously. He simply doesn't want to eat meat. He isn't a vegan, though, and still likes some dairy products, pasta, almost any kind of nut and bread. I jsut wish I could get him to eat more veggies.

Can I copy your article to use to explain to anyone who asks me the same thing? I would, of course, make the adjustments to explain my own diet, so I guess your article is more of a template.

[Elad]

9. Yes, feel free

That's why I posted this. :)

[BrklynLiberal]

6. Guess we could always ask them how cows and sheep manage to stay alive.

[NMMNG]

7. Oh, but...

"They're designed to be herbivores. They have different nutritional needs than humans, who are designed to be omnivores. After all, humans don't have multi-chambered stomachs like sheep and cows do.....yadda, yadda, yadda" :rofl:

[BrklynLiberal]

8. I would bet that those that argue don't even know THAT much!!

[NMMNG]

10. You mean you've never participated in one of the infamous

DU debates in GD? That's one of the typical sorts of rationalizations people give for their continued omni status. :eyes:

[yewberry]

11. Vegan myth #2--"...but your shoes are made of leather..."

This one makes me madder than a wet, um, brick of tofu. The implication is an accusation of inconsistency (at best) and hypocrisy (more frequently.)

Y'know, I go to a fair amount of trouble when shopping for shoes, and I do not like to shop. There's so often a choice: do I go for the cheapie, foot-hurting shoes at Payless, or do I give up a week's pay for some higher-quality shoes that'll most likely take 15 business days for delivery?

Gah. It's a wonder I own any shoes at all.

No, my shoes are not made of leather. My wallet is not leather. My valise is not leather. My belt, if I had one, would not be made of leather.


So please, defensive half-wits of the world, do not attempt to justify your decisions by accusing me of hypocrisy.

[yewberry]

12. V/V myth #3--The desert island scenario

This one is baffling, and I'm not sure why so many people try to invoke this argument.

"Those people shouldn't say that they're veg*n, because they've never had to make a life-or-death choice. They'd eat an animal if they had to survive."

(note to self: do not vacation with these people.)

Here it is: I've been veg for 20 years. Happily, I've yet to have someone point a gun at my head and demand that I throttle a rabbit. I have been fortunate enough that I've never been a tiger pit with nothing but maggoty rice and spiders. My planeload of soccer players has never crashed in the Andes. Yes, those things have happened, but they haven't happened to me. I AM lucky.

Veg*nism isn't about absolutes or theoretical flights of fancy. It's a continuum and, for me, it's about making choices that do less harm.

Tell you what, though: I'll get back to you as soon as it happens. At that point, feel free to discredit me or my values.

[mzteris]

13. when we were traveling

in Taiwan - we'd been dropped by taxi to catch a bus that would be a 4-5 hour ride. We only had like 30 minutes to "find" something to eat and there wasn't much around the small town we were in. My son was minimally conversant in Chinese at the time, but not THAT good. There was a KFC near the station (yeah in this small town) and hubby (who is not vegetarian) insisted we should *just go there*. The kids were already starving - the younger one crying - and so what were we to do?

So we go in. Hubby orders stuff for himself, popcorn chicken and fries, mashed potatoes blah blah blah. We sit down. My younger son (barely 6) - who at that point would probably have eaten shoe leather - did eat the nuggets. My older son (barely 11) reached out, stopped. Reached out again - picked up the nugget. Put it on his plate. Stared at it. Picked it up. Put it down. Looked at me. I said, "it's ok honey, we have to eat . . ." - I picked up a nugget and ate it thinking I was doing the right thing, though it was hard to do.

My son picked it up again, put it up to his mouth, and tried to bite it. His eyes filled with tears. "Mom, I can't. I just can't." Then *I* started crying. (Hubby, being the insensitive male that he is - and non-vegetarian who just doesn't *get it* started getting a bit mad. "He NEEDS to EAT SOMETHING!" blah blah blah...)

He ate the mashed potatoes sans gravy and some cole slaw. As we were getting on the bus I spied a kiosk in the bus station and managed to find some cookies and candy (ok - junk food but at least it there wasn't any meat in it!)

I think the poor kid would've just "starved" if he had to rather than eat it.

[BrklynLiberal]

14. GREAT KID!!!!!

[yewberry]

15. I'm kicking this

because there are some folks who might need to see it.

[Ellen Forradalom]

16. Go Vegan and No Body Gets Hurt--LOL!

:rofl: Book title of the day!

I was disabused of the protein myth young--I learned to cook from "Diet for a Small Planet" during my teenage years back in the 70s. Imagine how pleased I was when later it was found that rigorous protein-complementing at each meal was not necessary.