Something I heard in school the other day got me to thinking

[LeftyMom]

This will tie back into veganism and AR, but it may take a minute.

In Poli Sci my instructor was talking about Authoritarian and Democratic personalities, and the idea that Authoritarians are obsessed with dominance/submission power dynamics. Hearing that, I started thinking of all the people who defend exploitation of animals with the idea that animals are thiers to use, that human beings are superior and separate and that all "inferior" beings are subject to human whims. Then I got back to notetaking and the lecture.

Later on in talking about democratic personalities, he contrasted the limited range of affection typical of authoritarians with the broader sense of mutual respect and cooperation typical of democratic personalities, though of course he seemed to intend that only humans were part of the circle of compassion extended by the democratic personality. Again, I thought, that seems to reflect what I see in human relationships with animals. To most people, animals are "them," they are "other" and they are unimportant. All too easily, humans can get added to that animal other group. Contrast that with the idea of extending one's compassion to all animal life.

I'm begining to think that omniverousness is a trait one could link to authoritarianism. Thinking over the vegans and AR-oriented people that I know, I really can't think of any I would identify as having strong authoritarian traits, or for that matter, any who aren't committed to human cooperation and equality.

Just a random thought I had in lecture that I was reminded to share. I don't know how much sense it makes or how useful it is to anybody else, but it was a bit of a lightbulb moment for me.

[K8-EEE]

1. Interesting!

I like random thoughts! You know my grandpa was a real old world rural guy & he was a hunter -- and he had a lot of respect for the animals, a lot of compassion, I know it's hard to reconcile killing something and respecting it but he really did. But what we have now is so far removed from that, it's like how cheap/quick can we process these animals, that is just wrong. I saw this idiot on Daily Show and he was using these "extreme" bullets that explode inside the animal, he just seemed to like to blow these deer away like a video game and make them explode OMG. My grandfather was not like that; he really only killed what he ate and he helped animals that were in trouble or suffering, even little birds and squirrels and stuff.

For me it's really the factory farming that I can't abide. Disgusting -- even from a meat-eaters point of view, I read this article by a guy who does traditional ranching (cattle) and he said there are armed guards around those factory meat places just because if people saw the filthy conditions these animals are subjected to, they would never ever eat this food. Even if they were unconcerned about the humane aspect, just the filth of it they would not eat it. It's cheap but that's all it is.

[peacebuzzard]

2. Hi Leftymom....I have heard that brush-off justification remark too many

times:

quote:To most people, animals are "them," they are "other" and they are unimportant.

something along the lines of, "Ohh, I just don't want to think about it"
or, "I like animals, I like to eat them"

I have just surmised that the logic "out of sight, out of mind" applies to the majority.

another poster here suggested this book, which I want to purchase or try to find at the library, I just always forget but it seems to go along with the topic here:

[flvegan]

3. I think

that the eating of an animal, when one knows the backlash on the three (health/environment/animals), then yes, it's authoritarian in mindset. I know a whole lot of liberals that think animals are here to be used and humans are far superior. They'll take the religious or the evolution angle and work it. I also know some AR folks that are completely authoritarian in their mindset about animals. The abolitionists that think "compromise" is a four-letter word are no different in personality, I don't think.

Hell, democratic personalities oft morph into some of the biggest shitheads at the mere mention of vegetarianism, and Krakatoa at any word that so much as rhymes with "vegan." On the flip side I've heard some folks that are knee-deep in AR say things that scare the hell out of me in regards to folks that abuse animals (Jerry Vlasek, anyone?).

Even SHAC is/was authoritarian in some regards. The reasoning was different.

I agree with what you're saying on the statements' face, but I think that there's another side to it. I think the democratic personality is more likely to not see animals as such. Bearing in mind the polar opposite of Authoritarian is Anarchist, and even many anarchists eat meat because the animals were "put here" for our use.

[LeftyMom]

4. That's a good point.

Inflexibility is an authoritarian trait, as is slavish devotion to the ideas of a leader. Sadly both traits are widespread in AR. :( Belief in violent solutions is also authoritarian, but other than the aforementioned person who won't STFU, I don't think that's a very well accepted idea. After all, at least in this country there just isn't any history or pattern of AR motivated violence, while there is a long history of non-violent efforts against animal abusers.

Overall though, I think I do see more association between democratic personalities and AR-related ideas than not.

[NMMNG]

5. Interesting thought

But I think for most people being an omnivore is simply the way they were raised and they don't give it a second thought unless something/somebody causes them to examine their lifestyle. I'm certainly no authoritarian but while I've detested the idea of animal neglect/abuse since childhood it wasn't until about a year and a half ago that I gave serious thought to the morality of killing animals for food.

I do think, though, that those who actually confront the idea of whether or not it is moral to kill animals for food and determine that it is may very well lean towards authoritarianism. This is particularly true of those who dismiss the killing of animals as if it is of no consequence. If they do this for animals I can't help but wonder how they will behave towards their fellow humans.