Why is being a veg*n so offensive to people here?

[yewberry]

I'm really just venting, so don't take this too seriously, okay?

Today has been awful here, the Lounge in particular. Now, I generally don't take this to heart, because it is the Lounge, after all, but really, today was so far over the line.

Just today:

There was a (well, okay, there were two) veal thread(s). A chicken thread. A foie gras thread. A chicken-fried pork thread. A "Sexual Politics of Meat" thread. A defensive "veg diet causes envronmental damge, too" thread. A "do animals suffer and should we respect that" thread. A "big ole steak and hamburger and sausage" thread. A cutesy "non-controversial food" thread. Several mocking "child-eating" threads. A chicken-fried veal thread. Two pork (and a pork & beans) threads. A vicious response (locked) to a veg thread asking that the Lounge take a step back from all the attacks. Probably more.


These were not just "fun" food threads; many (even most) were targeted at us. Apparently, we're offensive just or being veg*ns.

Yes, sure, I know that people are going to tell me that I shouldn't be thin-skinned, but today was OVER THE LINE.

We didn't start this, and I'm sick of being made to feel as though I've done something wrong by giving a crap about beings who can't speak for themselves.

Maybe I just need a hug.

Anyone?

[Kenneth ken]

1. dunno

so here's a hug: :hug:

I'll say the same thing I do when ever anyone questions the acrimony on DU. Some people here aren't really progressives; Dems are not by definition progressive, they're just the more-progressive-than-the-GOP-major party; there are people here whose intent is to disrupt and cause dissent. For this particular topic, perhaps some people have a guilty conscience, but don't want / aren't yet strong enough to face up to what is required to sooth their conscience.

We're all flawed animals who have far too much ego? We are the same species who largely embraced the idea that of the entire universe and all contained within, we are the darlings of whatever created it.

:shrug:

:hug: again, it's probably impossible to have too many hugs. :)

[yewberry]

2. Thanks much.

I needed the hug.

And I'm taking Andy's death, hard too. The support is doubly appreciated.

:smiles through tears:

[Kenneth ken]

3. dang

now I need a hug. I hadn't heard that, so I read your post and went searching. Very sad. My condolences go out to all who loved and cared about him.

A sad cap to a sad day.

:hug: for myself and every one else who will need one.

:grouphug:

[yewberry]

4. Sorry. Really.

I didn't mean to be the bearer of bad tidings.

:pals:

[Kenneth ken]

5. it's okay

I would have seen that thread tonight anyway. I was mostly surprised that I had been reading around the boards for the past several hours and hadn't known it. But since the thread just got posted recently it only means I was reading the thread about "Honor among Beasts other animals"

I didn't know him except from his posts, so it isn't as hard for me as it must be for some.

:pals:

[shockra]

6. Minorities are scary.

Those poor beleaguered meat-eaters feel threatened by being only 95% of the population. In the pile-on thread one actually pleaded with the original poster to give *them* a break. :nopity:

Glad you posted about this, tofunut. I was too tired to know what to say. :hug:

[yewberry]

7. Thanks.

I really needed the support tonight.

Sometimes I wonder wtf I ever did to them, you know? Sure, if I (or anyone I know) were one of those archetypal holier-than-thou veg types, I could at least understand the incredible hostility--but I really don't know any of those.

It gets old.

[livinginphotographs]

8. These happen every once in a while.

The fundie meat-eaters (and I plan to start calling them that from now on, because of how many times I've been accused of being a fundie vegan) get their panties in a bunch about something or the other, so they go to the Lounge to post a bunch of cutesy copycat threads. It's about as close to debate as the Lounge ever gets, and it is usually like arguing with Republicans ("What I say is true and you're an idiot and humans are better than other animals just because I say so.").

I rarely bother with an animal thread in the Lounge, for obvious reasons.

While it may seem like organized tag-teaming to post in here that there's a vegan/animal rights thread elsewhere on DU, but I think it serves a wonderful purpose. It truly is hard to be the one person on a 100+ post thread disputing all those CCF links and "Mmm...steak" posts, so it's nice to have help.

But thanks for taking one for the team today tofunut. :wave:

[flvegan]

9. I can tell you exactly why:

I spend a good amount of time in GD and The Lounge. During the day, I could be classified as a Lounge Lizard. I'm not in any of the cliques, as I'm a freak. That's cool. I like everybody there, and enjoy most of the posts. So a poster baits with the "Veal ideas?" post, and I get into it with a very popular poster. It stays pretty civil, but it's still a bit of a flamewar. The pig pile begins when our "discussion" ends, cuz...it's funny, I suppose. A vaccuum was created, so others filled it. Happens all the time there, so I guess largely, it was my fault for going toe to toe with him, knowing the maturity level that is so prevalent there.

Veg* folk get pounded on quite often. I think, mostly, it's due to folks not liking what they see in the mirror when they think about it. Justification comes through attack. Sometimes, it's preemptive. I think we've seen that elsewhere before...hmmmm...

I did notice a couple posters in there considering veg*ism, so to me, it's worth it, though I get frustrated in the moment.

[smbolisnch]

10. I think you hit the nail on the head, as far as the lounge goes.

You did "take on" a popular member of one of the cliques (I don't care what anyone says, they exist) and so other people felt compelled to take his side. It is so obvious when you watch everyone jusp on the bandwagon. It makes me feel like I am in highschool again.

[Robeson]

15. Yes, that pretty much sums it up...

...and I noticed, also, a couple of rational posters who were considering quiting meat, so as long as a seed is planted in their heads, then it is worthwhile, though frustrating.

[CrispyQ]

17. I think you hit the nail on the head.

Veg* folk get pounded on quite often. I think, mostly, it's due to folks not liking what they see in the mirror when they think about it. Justification comes through attack. Sometimes, it's preemptive. I think we've seen that elsewhere before...hmmmm...

I avoid almost all anti-animal/anti-veg threads in the other forums with the exception of the mad cow threads. Those threads do seem to have a number of people expressing concern about their carnivorous diet & they may be at a point where they are more open to a new perspective. The other hate-filled threads are not worth my time.

[smbolisnch]

11. I don't know why, tofunut.

I think we all have to deal with it in our "real" lives as well. I know I do. The odd thing is, I go out of my way NOT to discuss it or showcase it in any way, simply to avoid the uncomfortable part that always goes with talking to meat eaters about it. No matter what, though, people ask me questions and when I answer them, they get pissed about this or that.

You can come here to vent anytime, though! :hug:

[Catchawave]

12. ...it just gets worse....today

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x3600257

:grouphug:

I hope such OP's get warnings, borderline "hate posts" imho.

Edit to add another hug :hug: and, such anti-ar/veg posts feel so freeperish to me. Yet they hide behind *sarcasm*. Why?

[smbolisnch]

19. What was it?

Yanked before I saw it.

[Catchawave]

20. Yep, a good thing.....

:hug:

[Dastard Stepchild]

13. Actually, there did seem to be a larger than usual commentary on veggies..

:hug:

I shrug it off. I've done it for years. I know that is a pat response, but I'm afraid that I've not yet stumbled across a better way. People like to eat themselves some animals. I don't - I don't know how to even begin to bridge this dialogue in a meaningful way.

And I like your Schweitzer quote. I'm a Schweitzer Fellow this year. :)
http://www.schweitzerfellowship.org/

[yewberry]

14. Hey, congratulations!

A Schweitzer fellow in our midst!

And thanks--I'm pretty much back to normal today. Yesterday was just too much.

[Beaverhausen]

16. Don't go back to the lounge...the kiddies are at it again

[shockra]

18. I looked, briefly.

And that's enough for me.

Hey, somebody started a thread referring to the comment I made yesterday in GD about the Lounge! HA.

[Dastard Stepchild]

22. Thanks!

I'm enjoying the experiences thus far.

Now I am off to devour a vegan chocolate chip cookie that has been calling my name for the past hour now.

[Piperay]

21. I think deep down they know that

as a 'Progressive/Liberal" or whatever they chose to call themselves they SHOULD be vegetarian but they don't want to because they like their meat. I think having us 'flaunt' our vegetarianism around them makes them feel guilty (though they would never admit it) and so they get mad and take it out on us...it's misdirected anger. JMO :-(


At least we have each other ... :grouphug:

[shockra]

23. I feel bad for friesianrider.

Who got pummeled for asking for understanding.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=105&topic_id=3597847

I PM'd her and invited her here, but I think she's gone. At least for now.

I took a three or four month break within a couple months of joining, and didn't expect to ever come back. I didn't even read the forums all that time even though I'd already been reading for a year. When I started reading again though I found a J-Lo fur thread which compelled me to post, and now I have a whole new reason for being here -- the animal rights threads hooked me back in.

[smbolisnch]

24. I pm'd her as well.

I missed that thread or I would have stood up for her. Such bullshit that some DUers spew at anyone even remotely supportive of animal rights. And the most ridiculous part is, many of them probably only get nasty because one of the "cool" members of the lounge started the attack.

[Robeson]

25. I PM'd her too. And told her to come over to this group, and that ...

...there are many over here who feel as she does. They definitely dog-piled on her, and it was unnecessary. I actually had typed out a big post to defend her on that thread, and when I hit the post message button, it had been locked while I had been composing my message.

[shockra]

26. Well, if we wanted to dogpile...

This would probably be a good place to start.

Should vegans be fed to bobcats?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x3610985

Gee, how about blacks, or gays, or women?

**********

That thread was like a runaway train. I was struggling to come up with a sharp remark, but everything I could think of sounded like it would be deleted and the insults just kept right on coming. Being full of Vicodin after the dentist appt. certainly didn't help.

Those posters were an embarrassment. It's probably time to hit a bunch of ignore buttons because they're a waste of time and life is too short for that much aggravation. I was so pissed in so many ways. Not the least because friesianrider wasn't being "polite" enough in response to being attacked.

Yeah, they'd love for you to be submissive and roll over. It's not right to be tough when you're supposed to be a "frail vegetarian." And it's certainly not "ladylike." :eyes:

[Robeson]

27. Wow. That thread you just linked to is why I find myself spending less...

...and less time in the Lounge. I realize its the Lounge - and some of that is to be expected - but the seeming Jr. High humor just wears on me after a little while. Lately, I've been going to a lot more of the Groups I have marked, since the people in those groups have specific interest that I share.

The way they dog-piled on friesianlander - who was really just trying to extend an olive branch - was an eyeopener for me.

I've never used the ignore button on any site I belong to, but lately, I'm really getting tempted...

[smbolisnch]

30. I was actually surprised at some of the people who jumped on her.

I don't have anyone on ignore, I just have a good memory I guess and I know what to expect from who. The list is getting longer and longer, though. I feel so bad for friesander too. :( I hope she comes to our happy little group here.

[livinginphotographs]

35. I PM'ed her (or him, I'm not sure of the gender)

I thought that was really cool that he or she went out on a limb like that. I've already got a mental list of the usual suspects, but he or she always stayed under the radar until those threads.

[smbolisnch]

36. She is a she!

She posted a pic the other day, riding her horse. Someone accused her of abusing it for riding it. Typical. :eyes:

[shockra]

37. She's gorgeous, huh?

I'd never looked at a photo thread in the Lounge before, but last night I looked at the latest one for some reason.

That would especially sting to be ganged up on right after you've shared personal pics of you and yours. :(

[smbolisnch]

38. Yes she is very pretty!

I hope she comes around again.....I feel so bad :(

[flvegan]

29. Dammit!!

I didn't even see that thread. I was long asleep when that one started up.

friesianrider was alongside me in one of the veal threads. Since they were so desperate to be funny, I thought best to point out how UNfunny, unoriginal and boring they were being. friesianrider picked RIGHT up on it, and ran with it. That thread, as well as the one right after it, died quick deaths when nobody played the opposing role. Basically, they got mocked for posting the same crap over and over and over again.

[trebizond]

28. this subject has always brought out the worst in a hell of a lot of DUers

It's a combination of guilt, and a really odious, drooling desire to lay into the one minority group they think it's OK to put the boot into. When I first arrived here I got dragged into a few such threads, and ended up quitting DU for several months mostly over it- now I tend to ignore them, although I'm becoming tempted to get back in the game, now and then at least, if only to counter the sad cheerleading squads some of these posters seem to carry into such threads with them.

[shockra]

31. Well, you made me LOL in that bobcat thread, tofunut.

:)

[yewberry]

32. Thanks.

Bobcats are hungry beasts, and there aren't that many of us.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

33. Besides...

vegans and vegetarians are thin and sickly from not eating meat.

Couldn't be very satisfying or nutritious for a bobcat. ;)

[Catchawave]

34. The kids seem to be behaving too :)

I dropped off a post. Felt good to contribute a fact to their "humor" LOL.

[shockra]

39. Bleh.

I'm eating my first vegan. Ask me anything.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x3616497

[smbolisnch]

40. Just saw that.

However, I am currently involved in an ugly suicide GD thread. :banghead:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4067590

[flvegan]

41. I alerted. I think that this is the end of The Lounge for me, and

step two closer to the end of DU for me. I just don't need this shit from "allies" you know?

[Piperay]

45. Same here

end of the Lounge and less and less time in DU. I have been a DU member since almost the beginning (Spring of 2001)and used to spend hours in DU everyday. I have gotten so disheartened by much of what goes on here anymore that I sometimes go days without checking in and when I do I only look at LBN and this forum. I find myself just liking DU less and less and am so disgusted I may 'throw in the towel altogether'. :-(

[Catchawave]

52. I spend more time in the group forums.....

...there are really alot of nice people on DU. LBN's become my *only* source for news, and love having like minds to discuss it with :)

Yeah, the floors do get sticky in the Lounge, I sometimes wonder if the more outrageous posts are strictly for the attention of Freeper sites? It's like a *badge of honor* to get mentioned on one of those.

I hope you don't throw in the towel on DU, you're too valuable a member...we need ya :patriot:

[Piperay]

53. Thanks

:pals: I think I will be around for awhile, it's just that when you read some of that 'stuff' you feel like leaving. It really gets you down then you later you remember that is just a small percentage and 98% of DU is good.

[City Lights]

47. You alerted, but it's still up.

I guess it's ok to promote cannibalism on DU. :puke:

[flvegan]

48. Finally gone.

'Bout time.

[City Lights]

49. Noticed that too.

Glad it's gone.

[trebizond]

46. so it's now progressive to find the idea of killing and eating somebody--

--because of what they choose to eat the height of hilarity?? Man, this crowd have now totally gone over the edge. Yet it'll still be the vegans that are considered "extremists" and "militant", no doubt.:eyes::eyes:

[Catchawave]

51. The thread was removed !

Not even locked, r-e-m-o-v-e-d :woohoo:

Sounded disgusting too.

[shockra]

42. Just so ya'll don't feel so alone.

We're not the only ones who have problems with the Lounge. I've been reading in the Feminists group.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=341x2711

[SemiCharmedQuark]

43. Because it's easier to convince yourself veg*ns are wrong than to change

People always resist change and the easiest way to do it is by discounting change as "crazy". Why change if your actions are the sound actions? And the better case the other side makes, the louder you have to shout "they're crazy" to drown out your conscience.

Believe me, I know it sucks. But look in every minority group. We all have these problems against the majority. Someone can go to one group and be incredibly angry that their views were completely trampled on and go right out and trample someone else's views. Humans are funny that way. That's why I prefer animals.

Weak Veg*ns! Puh!

Tell that to Batman!



Because all meat eaters are so attractive and healthy, right?

Anyway, hugs! And Chin Up!

:hug: :hug:

[NMMNG]

44. People just assume vegetarians/vegans are making a moral judgement

about them, even if we aren't. That puts them on the defensive automatically. They have a stick up their butts before anything even can be said to the contrary.

Some people aren't too bad, but others are just as crude as RW whackjobs. It's sad really.

[peacebuzzard]

50. It builds character. I get alot of that in real life.

Fortunately, lately I have dropped 20 plus pounds by eliminating binge beer and wine drinking and overeating pasta and sweets and preserved foods. Even though I haven't eaten red meat in ages, it is only recently w/ diet modifications and exercise, that I have improved my health and figure. So when the meat eaters scoff, and I outline my diet, it makes many of the plump ones pause. Food for thought, I hope.
oops...forgot my :grouphug: