Help with my veggie kids and my pediatrician

[4_Legs_Good]

Okay, of course I just was forced to switch to an HMO last week and had to declare a PCP for my kids, so I'm not sure how easy it'll be to change, if I choose to do that.

Anyway, my wife and I are ovo/lacto vegetarians, we've been so for over a decade. We have a 3 year old and a 3 month old. We made it clear to our pediatrician on day one that we wanted our kids to be vegetarians. He's an old school doctor and wasn't exactly happy with it, but he didn't think it was a huge problem nor did he give us any advice.

Anyway, 3 years later and my wife takes the 3 year old (2 years 11.5 months, actually) in for some possible bacterial infection and all of a sudden his vegetarianism (he eats tons of dairy and eggs, btw) is suddenly the cause of all his ailments from being irritable when they're pricking him with a needle to the fact that he isn't potty trained yet. His iron value is like a half point below normal so the doctor thinks he's eating dirt, blah blah blah.

So anyway, I'm sure all parents think this, but this kid is light years ahead of other kids in other areas, and behind in some too. His weight/height are perfectly normal, no physical developmental problems, normally in good spirits, but has standard kid tempermental times, etc. Anyway, if the HUGE negatives of him not being potty trained and being upset when he gets a sharp needle shoved into him are the price we pay for all the rest of the wonderful attributes he has, then them's the breaks.

Anyway, I'm really irritated right now, and simply do not believe the BS that the doctor is feeding us now particularly on the vegetarianism. I can't stand the idea of my sons eating someone else's corpse, so that's not even an option unless heaven and earth and every doctor in the world says we have to do it, OR there's serious and compelling evidence that something far worse than a 3 year old who still wears diapers is going on.

So, what do I do about his diet? Does anyone make a reasonably good iron supplement that kids can take that's not nasty, and preferably derived from plant sources? Preferably chewable (the doctor was also irritated with the fact that my son can't swallow pills - something that I'm sure I couldn't do until I was at least 8). Any tips to getting him to eat more veggies? Right now he's heavy on carbs and dairy and doesn't like anything too complicated.

:grr:

Sorry to go on.

david

[smbolisnch]

1. That sucks David.

I am not a mom, so unfortunately I know very little about kids and vegetarianism, but I cannot imagine that a doctor would advocate shoving meat laden with hormones and antibiotics into a child because his iron was a little low. I think that iron deficiency is pretty common in kids anyway. I know we have parents of veggie kids here who can help. Here are some links that might have some info for you. Good luck to you guys!

http://www.naturalparenting.com.au/articles/issue4/vegetarianchildren.htm
http://www.vegsoc.org/info/childre2.html
http://www.andrews.edu/NUFS/Vegan%20Children.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/vegetarian_and_vegan/children.shtml

[shockra]

2. I was reading not too long ago about iron deficiency..

Being a problem in vegetarians who use loads of dairy in an effort to get "enough protein."

http://www.healthychild.com/database/milk_is_it_really_good_for_our_children_.htm

Milk Can Cause Anemia

Milk can cause anemia in children for several reasons. Sensitivity to milk can cause blood to slowly and steadily seep into the intestines. This lowers the blood protein level, which can lead to anemia, even though the amount of blood lost each day is too small to see. Dr. Oski points out that “it is estimated that half the iron deficiency in the United States is primarily a result of this form of cow’s milk induced gastrointestinal bleeding.” In addition, milk provides very little iron (about one-tenth of a milligram per eight-ounce serving) and it blocks the absorption of iron. Children that are filling up on a lot of milk and dairy products may not be getting enough iron-rich foods to begin with, but when they do get iron, the excess milk may be hindering the absorption of the iron.

***********

I think soybeans are a pretty good source of iron. It seems like substituting soy milk and soy cheese could solve that problem.

[Catchawave]

3. You're doing just fine !

Asshole doctor:eyes: If he's "old school", then he's definitely got problems with the vegetarian lifestyle as being "those kind of people".

Kids are naturally picky, my carnivore pack of them depended on Flintstone w/iron vitamins to help them reach adulthood :) They are all fine and healthy adults now. They hated everything, one child would only eat wheat thins and fruit for a whole year!

My 2&1/2 y.o. twin grandgirls take vitamins that look and taste like gummi bears, I'm surprised your ped didn't recommend something like that?

Hey, kids get sicker off lousy meat than a rotten apple!

Potty training has nothing to do with diet, believe me. All mine were 3 or older when they caught on.

Great links above, all I could think of to add to it:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/sim-explorer/explore-items/-/0935526226/0/101/1/none/purchase/ref%3Dpd%5Fsxp%5Fr0/104-6663042-8795116

Also, Google has tons of hits on the 'vegetarian child' search !

Good luck, we're here to help!

[LeftyMom]

4. I know people have had good luck with Floradix for the iron

We try to remember to give LK his multivitamin chewables, (I don't remember the brand offhand) but he's a picky eater and in perfect health.

I'm convinced it's pretty normal to go through these picky phases, and almostkids that age seem to get stuck on carbs and bland foods. I heard a theory that it's an adaptation to prevent poisoning when kids are big enough to get to dangerous items but incapable of distinguishing them from good ones. I don't know if it's true but it seems to explain the nearly universal nature of the picky toddler phase. Of course, LeftyKid didn't potty train until he was nearly four, so what the hell do I know? :eyes:

Any chance of finding a better doctor? You shouldn't have to educate the guy, and I'd be worried that any doctor that had that big a problem with my kid's diet might make a CPS complaint or something.

PS I couldn't swallow pills until I was about 11, and then I had to start with vitamin E caps and work my way up to actual pills. Expecting a 3 yo to swallow pills is nuts, since kiddie meds come in liquid and chewable forms and the last thing we need is toddlers taking adult meds anyhow.

[shockra]

5. Smarty pants

http://www.vegsoc.org.au/newsletter_list.asp?ID=28

"Vegetarian children have no greater incidence of iron deficiency anemia and amazingly a number of studies have shown vegetarian children have significantly higher I.Q.s than the average U.S child. These claims can be sourced on page 85 of John Robbins’ The Food Revolution."

:)

[Lorien]

6. Don't iron skillets add iron to the food that's cooked in them?

I think I heard that on a cooking show :shrug:

[livinginphotographs]

7. .

.

[flvegan]

8. Likely none of us are qualified to pose a toe-to-toe

with your PCP. I would suggest contacting PCRM with your issues. Dr. Bernard is FAMOUS for responding to this type of issue. As a very respected physician, other docs tend to listen to him/his advice over what whackjobs like me might suggest.

Personally, I'd change doctors, but I know how difficult that can be. My PCP had an initial issue with my veganism, but I challenged her to put any aspect of her health up against mine. Granted, genetics, exercise and diet play a role, but she wanted no part of it. She ultimately stated that I was probably right in my choice for a healthy diet.

Stand your ground, but remember that these doctors are only telling you what they've learned/been taught. That, and very, very, very few of them have any true nutrition background (that's always a funny question to ask of them, FYI).

[yewberry]

9. I think

Vegsource has a pretty extensive parenting resource.

www.vegsource.com/parent/

Good luck!

[AlienGirl]

10. I have two veg kids

They were vegan until their dad took them at ages 4 and 6; now they eat some dairy. Both are very healthy aside from having an inherited autosomal dominant muscle disorder. They are now 7 and 9.

I couldn't swallow pills until adulthood. I wouldn't expect a toddler to be able to swallow pills.

A good chewable multivitamin with iron might be a good idea, though--for kids with any sort of diet, not just veg kids.

Tucker

[Ilsa]

11. I'd look at changing docs also.

This is abusive behavior because he knows this stuff is unrelated to what he considers minor delays your child has. Pill swallowing isn't that easy at age three, and it will vary from child to child. And you wouldn't believe how many kids I know of that aren't potty trained until after age three, and with girls being faster.

[LeftyMom]

12. website link for you

There's probably something on the issue of veggie kids and doctors at http://www.vegfamily.com/ if there isn't I'm sure Erin has some great advice on the issue if you email her.

[mzteris]

13. First - change doctors

Doesn't sound like someone you want to have to fight with at every visit over the vegetarianism.

Second - you might want to do a trial "no dairy" - go to soy and/or rice substitutes (rough, I know) - but I've recently talked to several people who have done "no dairy" for various reasons for their kids - 1 for behaviour and the other for ear infections.

The first one's kid is like another being altogether. The dairy really did affect his behaviour.

The second had very good luck clearing up the ear infections but after a "year or so" went back to dairy and the kid had no further ear infection problems.

[livinginphotographs]

14. Changing your PCP is easy.

Just call the carrier, or your broker. Different carriers are going to require different things to make the change, but it's very easy.

Doctors like this is why I stopped going to the doctor.

[bertha katzenengel]

15. There's not much that's worse than a closed-minded doctor, David.

I'm sorry you're having these problems. I wish I had some advice to offer, but I've barely been a vegetarian for two weeks. Best wishes.