The ultimate irony for us southerners

[JohnKleeb]

George W. Bush is a yankee not a southerner. I dont know about y'all but New Haven aint south, its not just north, its North North!

[doni_georgia]

1. Yep, and Bill Clinton is a southerner

This goddamned civil war being fought on DU is really starting to piss me off. I just went on a full-fledged diatribe on the GD forum. I always know when I have really lost it when I start writing about peanut butter and banana sandwiches, collards, blackeyed peas and grits. LOL. Just pisses me off that some people think prejudice is okay so long as you are prejudiced against southerners.
To read my diatribe:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=2692273&mesg_id=2692527&page=

[Dzimbowicz]

2. I just read your diatribe

and being from SC, I agree with you. I am open-minded, well educated, never dated, much less married a cousin and I speak three languages as well. I could go on about how much we have in common, including 40+ years of age, but I am tired of typing.

:yourock:

[wildeyed]

3. I haven't even been going into GD.

Ridiculously contentious these days. Hopefully people will calm down soon and be capable of civil discussion.

[Midlodemocrat]

4. Well, at the risk of getting flamed

...I moved to VA from CT and frankly, a lot of the natives here made it pretty uncomfortable. There were lots of LTTE about taking 95 back north, etc. I had always heard that the South was a welcoming place, but I sure found out really quickly that some of it wasn't.

Edit for typo.

[comsymp]

5. That's a common, often unfortunate reaction to

the well-documented tendencies of many Northern transplants to constantly compare, and almost always unfavorably, any given aspect of their new homes with the old. It's been a source of discussion Down Heah for decades or longer, complete with bumperstickers.

My favorite is still:

We don't care HOW you did it Up North!

[Midlodemocrat]

6. Well, see the irony is

...that I prefer living here. Cost of living is better, more services. But I have to tell you, strangers in NYC are a lot friendlier. I can't tell you how many times someone slammed a door in my face while I was pushing a stroller. Not trying to generalize all southerners mind you, because that would be ignorant, but it did open my eyes quite a bit.

[comsymp]

7. Agreed down the line

(in fact, and i'll deny this if you ever mention it, i was very pleasantly surprised by the open friendliness of nyc residents i've met on trips Up Nawth- another cherished myth shot to hell)

I don't take your comment as a generalization and appreciate your very clear distinction, but have to wonder if your surprise at the boorish behavior wasn't the result of a common generalization-- that all Southerners are friendly/polite, etc. Fact is, there are jerks everywhere- some openly rude, some more discreet. And, on behalf of my more ill-mannered neighbors, I'm genuinely sorry - both sympathetic and apologetic - that you experience(d) that type of behavior.

Of course, there's always the question of whether the jerks you've met might also have been transplants??? ;-)

[Midlodemocrat]

9. That is an interesting question

...frankly, the type of person I am, I expect the best behavior from everyone. I always hold the door, give, give and give, etc. I don't think I came here expecting much, because previously, I had moved around a lot in the Northeast and was welcomed. I honestly was a little appalled at the open hostility directed to all Northerners, and I am guessing that some deserved it, but not me.

[comsymp]

13. Agreed again-

The resentment towards Northern Interlopers is really a complex thing which can only be understood through experience, and never adequately explained to a non-Southerner. The closest analogy that immediately comes to mind would be to compare it to "It's a Black thing" - if you haven't lived it, you'll never fully get it. Some of us have experienced the incessant criticisms of our Northern neighbors once too often and are no longer willing to give the benefit of the doubt. I hope to never reach that point, myself.

Having said that, some folks are still just assholes- and that's not only unfortunate, but unnecessary.

Pls see posts 11 & 12 for add'l thoughts on this.

(and FWIW, glad to have you down here!)

Editing to correct post numbers referenced

[kick-ass-bob]

8. I only see that behavior from the transplants

we get lots in our area. You can always tell what kind of accent is going to come out of ones mouth by their actions...

[Midlodemocrat]

10. Really? I don't see that.

I have had a lot of interactions with people from all over the country and I have to tell you I was surprised at the hostility with which the Northerners were received here. I think, possibly, it has a lot to do with rapid growth, but on the flip side, we are definitely contributing to the economy.

[DemBones DemBones]

21. It definitely happens, you're right about that.

I am surprised that people would slam a door in your face when you were pushing a stroller. Southerners do open doors for others, though it's declined somewhat over the years, plus we have an awful lot of transplants here. I know you're saying that your previous home wasn't like that but people come from so many places it's hard to sort out where the rudeness comes from.

It may well come from the recognized phenomenon of people behaving badly away from home. You see that in some college students, military personnel, and other transplanted persons. It's like they subconsciously think "I don't know a damn soul here, so I can be a jerk." Maybe it's because they didn't want to move here, away from family back home. I don't really know.

As for the LTTE, that does have a lot to do with the transplants who want to take over and remake their new home to be a replica of the one they left. You would not believe how many transplants hassle Southerners about eating grits and drinking sweet tea! Quite often, they simultaneously inform us that we mistreat Hispanic immigrants by not honoring their culture, without seeing the inherent irony at all!

All that aside, I'm really sorry people haven't treated you as well as they could have, and hope your situation in Virginia improves. It's a lovely place, at least the parts that I know (lived in the Tidewater area three separate times (Navy brat, you know) and have been to northern VA, up near JohnKleeb. I've never visited New England at all and hope to do that in the next few years. What's your favorite place in Connecticut and why?

[othermeans]

11. Can a northerner (southern california actually) get in on this discussion?

I have to say that most of those people had these preconceived notions because they have never been south. The majority of people from the south are always been hospitable to me. The army did a lot to dispell my own prejudices against people from the south. The people who blame the south for the election loss are just ignoring the obvious.

I really don't believe it was southern morality that gave the Republicans the election. I stated on a previous post that I really didn't believe it was a moral issue. I really think it is more of a
respect issue for other people's beliefs. When you're constantly being characterized as ignorant, uneducated racists it tends to turn you off a little bit from people who are casting these aspersions

People don't realize that each state in the south is as different as each state is in the north. But many (not all) take this approach that the south is a giant monolith.

Well that's my rant.

[comsymp]

12. No.

J/K- you make good points, especially pertaining to The Myth of The Monolithic South and the typical reaction of being the target of (negative) gross generalizations.

In fact, I'd like to elaborate on your comment:

When you're constantly being characterized as ignorant, uneducated racists it tends to turn you off a little bit from people who are casting these aspersions

That is completely accurate as a stand-alone comment, but there's another factor which should also be considered: A generalization, but Southerners, as a whole, often tend to resist whatever we perceive as being forced on us. You could cite historical reasons, of course, but the bottom line is that we tend to be, as characterized by a well-known Southern author (almost positive it was Molly Ivins), buttheaded. This can lead us practice - or defend - rebellious, buttheaded acts... thereby reinforcing the original criticism.

[othermeans]

14. Don't you think that type of behaviour is common to many Americans?

Most of us I think would rebel against this type of characterization. I'm sure northeastern Democrats are tired of being labeled elitists, California Democrats are tired of being thought off as sushi eating airheads, on and on ad nauseum.

Perhaps the thing that actually makes me like most people from the South is the thing that Ivins calls buttheaded. Their tendency to stand strong on principle and by their friends and families.

[comsymp]

15. Y'know, I thought about that after posting my reply

and realized that I should have stated *categorically* that the tendency towards buttheadedness is *by no means* an attribute which is exclusive to the South. But like mosquitos, we seem to have more than our fair share. Hell, maybe it's the humidity.

Agreed, also, about the positive aspects of buttheadedness - like most things, I guess it's a double-edged sword. Wonder if it also contributes to the percentage of ppl down here who profess religious faith...

I think/speculate that it may be a bit more pronounced Down Heah because the South has - at least since The War - been the focus of so much criticism (some clearly deserved) and a nearly universal perception of both intellectual and moral inferiority. Naturally, my view is subjective but I'm inclined to think that being labeled as stupid and evil is more likely to be felt than flaky or elitist. Just thinking out loud.

[othermeans]

16. What war would that be? My friend from Tennesee says the

South has a different mentality since it was actually a conquered territority.

[comsymp]

17. That would be The War

And I agree with your friend's assessment- in fact, my allusion to The War, in caps, was a semi-tongue in cheek reference to the fact that some (many?) Southerners are keenly aware of being in the unique position of having actually been on the losing end of a war- something that the majority of the US hasn't experienced, with the exception of Viet Nam - and recent events clearly illustrate how emotionally that subject is treated three decades later. (I believe an argument could be made that our defeat was more keenly felt since it occurred on our own soil) We are, after all, Americans- and Americans don't like losing.

Strictly opinion, but I'd guess that the psychological consequences of actually being conquered, followed by Reconstruction and the stigma of being considered traitors (remember your comments about loyalty?), had a pretty damaging effect on our cultural psyche.

[othermeans]

19. I think that many people from the North fail to see that fact. I think

also that people think a majority of Southerners just gave up their American citizenship and joined the Confederacy. I read there was a huge amount of soul searching before they either joined the Confederacy or decided to remain loyal to the Union. Again, of course it is difficult to get this point across to people who are taught that there was only one side to the Civil War.

But to go back what I was talking about originally I really believe it is a matter of respect for another person's beliefs or as you correctly put it their culture.

[yankeeinlouisiana]

18. Hey! what's wrong with Yankees??

When I moved down here and people would find out that I had just moved from Chicago, they all said "so, you're a Yankee". So, hence my user name.

[DemBones DemBones]

20. Nothing at all! It's the Damn Yankees who are the problem.

Damn Yankees are the ones who are like hemorrhoids, you know: they come down, are a real pain in the ass, and won't go back where they came from!

As long as you're not a real pain in the ass, we're glad to have you here! :hi:

(We have our share of sorry people here, too. Native Southerners can be tacky and trashy. We just don't have a patent on it, as some non-Southerners seem to think.)

I think that often Southerners are just being friendly/ kidding around when they say "So, you're a Yankee." Just smile and say "Yep. You're a Rebel, right?"

[JohnKleeb]

23. nothin wrong with yankees

just with yanks who think they're us.

[BamaGirl]

22. Nothing pisses me off more than hearing GWB is Southern!

The man is NOT Southern. It's freaking annoying.

I've read thru these post and agree with most of it. Lately, I've been thinking Democrats in the South are just different. I'm Southern. I'm conservative. I'm still a Democrat. I'm sick and damned tired of being blamed for JK losing the election. And that includes the sentiment from "local Democratic Yankees". It's hard not to hate a region when they live in your backyard and are STILL vilifying you. I have a good friend who's a New York transplant so I don't have anything against transplants, but like most of us, it really pisses me off if said transplant moves here and tells me how awful I am every chance they get lol.

For some reason many of the transplants, nice or otherwise, don't see the disconnect and don't see where our complaints might come from. As an illustration for that, I went to high school in the Atlanta suburbs in the late 80s. This was a time when a major migration of yankees was beginning. I cannot begin to tell you how much grief we got from them. It was an "open your mouth, immediate label" kind of situation. You know, this was liberal, educated, upper middle class school. And still that damned label persisted. I know quite a few people who as a result hate all yankees. It's sad, but true.

It all depends on perception. I lived in Vegas for a year, and it was awful. The rudest group of people I have ever encountered anywhere, and the minute I opened my mouth, they got ruder. You wouldn't believe some of the outrageous questions people will ask you just because you have a Southern accent lol.

And finally (yes, I'm shutting up now lol), I donated to DU so I could post on this board. The bash the red/Southern states vibe is just out of control on GD. It's very disheartening, and hopefully the non-sense will stop soon.