Another afternoon ruined by DU

[carolinayellowdog]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2948392

My partner says I should go cold turkey rather than keep getting
upset by the hostility of anonymous strangers. Anyone here considering the same? Maybe just staying out of GD would do the trick.

It's just such a damn shame that the hatreds of the 19th century so constantly distract us from discussing the horrors of the 21st.

[dbt]

1. It's hard at first, c.y.d!

But you can do this--and you don't have to stay out of GD, either. Just pass them threads by, leave them be. There's no winning in there. Trust me. Allow those folks their God-given right to be public fools; they'll do it with or without you.

:hi:
dbt

[radric]

2. I quit worrying about what strangers on the Net..

had to say about the South or the Civil War long ago. Most know very little about either but never have the least bit of trouble spouting off like experts..

[RoyGBiv]

3. Read the subject line ...

Quickly passed it by.

A read a bit of it just now. I'll avoid commenting.

The first argument I got into on DU was over something like this. All I can say is that the discussion underscored the fact that ignorance and prejudice known no political boundaries, the regular reinforcement of which has actually helped me keep some perspective while interacting here.

DU is not the enemy, however.

[carolinayellowdog]

5. DU is the messenger, not the enemy

but if the message is that a large number of anonymous fellow Dems hate us for having been born south of the Mason-Dixon line, it's one I managed to escape encountering in 50 years of traveling all over the country. DU *delivered* that horrifying message, which makes me wonder what the hell we can ever accomplish in this country if folks are still scapegoating over the Civil War. (Or rather, DU delivers it *every day*-- how could a thread about a California newscaster getting fired end up delivering us another dose of South-bashing?)

Using search led me to discover that the same person who was giving me a hard time had already gone on record arguing with Ripley that no one on DU had *ever* attributed negative qualities to Southerners in general. Right. Not ever.

Yeah, those threads are readily identifiable, and there is no point in trying to enlighten anyone about the complexities and subtleties of Southern history. Scapegoating is just too seductive to people for reason and evidence to ever prevail against it.

CYD

[QC]

6. Here's what we need to do...

Let's start scouring the headlines for grisly murders and boneheaded acts of stupidity in "blue states" and posting them in LBN.

Eight or ten of those a day, kept bumped as needed, might get the point across. Lords knows reason never will.

[radric]

7. Wonder how long that would allowed..

to continue before the moderators started locking the threads and issuing warnings?

[RoyGBiv]

8. Indeed ...

If I may expand a bit, I think without realizing it a lot of people are flying right by the real reason we lost the last election (potential fraud and voting problems notwithstanding) and have lost every one since FDR in which a Southern Democrat was not the candidate. Even if the election had turned out in our favor, it would have been extremely close, which means simply that a lot of the problems the Democratic Party faces are very much present and threaten to destroy it entirely if not addressed in a meaningful way. How to do this is the question, and I personally have no good answers at the moment. And, I hate to say this because I supported the man fully, I but a fear a Kerry victory would simply have made these problems worse than they already are, if that's possible. It would have justified the "ignore the South" strategy.

I don't mean to oversimply. I know the political landscape is far more complicated than any single issue (or region) could embody, but I believe the fact remains that Democrats, by and large, have written off the South as a "lost cause," if you'll pardon the pun. :-) I find this ironic since a greater proportion of the people to which the base Democratic message is supposedly tailored to appeal live in the South than in other areas.

One of the problems is, to my mind, best described by a scene in a movie called _Dazed and Confused_. The wanna-be social servant and liberal political activist on his last day in high school has come to a realization while standing in line at the DMV that he "really doesn't like all those people been talking about wanting to help." The bigger problem is that Southerners realize this and act against their own interests due to the rather open insult. They say they want to help, but they really don't like me, so what am I supposed to believe ... that sort of thing. Republicans end up looking appealing because they are willing at least to pretend to embrace the culture if not the people, and to Southerners, our distinctive culture is very important. By contrast, Democrats in many areas of the country do not respect or even pretend to respect Southern culture. The choice in this case becomes rather simple and simplistic.

The Democrats lost this election when the MSM coined the term "NASCAR Dads" and a sizable proportion of the rank and file began openly insulting those who fit the description. IMO.

[QC]

9. Excellent point. Also the "Jesusland" talking point that many here bleat

night and day is counterproductive, because it simply feeds into the notion that Democrats hold religious people in contempt. But some people honestly don't seem to understand why alienating voters is a bad idea.

[RoyGBiv]

10. "Jesusland"

That crap has gone beyond irritating and straight into foolish and absurd.

I'm much more in favor of re-capturing the image of Jesus. He was, after all, a liberal, radical activist.

Unfortunately, there is no love greater than the love of one's own prejudices.

[AlFrankenFan]

4. That's a good point

And they tell us to get over the Civil War era...

[radric]

11. What is this huge attraction on DU for..

Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro? Seriously... what's the attraction?

[QC]

15. radical chic, of course. n/t

[flaminbats]

12. What hostility?

Racial prejudice in the 21st century is America's defining characteristic as before the Civil War. How many pale faces in America today would trade places with a hispanic or black? How many blacks or hispanics would trade places with a white person?

For the most part, the Internet is free of racism. How many posters would assume I am hispanic or that you are black? Would knowledge of our race really not effect the way other DUers treat us? In my experience region is fading as a social factor in America. How many southerners today even have an accent? Blacks in the north or west coast sound more southern than most whites living in the south.

[quaoar]

13. No Southern accents in the South?

Wow. I'm just guessing here, but I'd say that you don't live in the South. Unless, of course, it's South Dakota or maybe South Bronx. LOL

[RoyGBiv]

16. Southern Accent

How many? Millions do.

Well, maybe not in Atlanta. :-)

Seriously, the perception that the various forms of Southern accents are fading is just that, a perception, perpetuated in large part by mass media. Media personalities with distinctive accents attend schools to develop a bland type of accent at least, anything to get rid of an accent that can be associated with a specific culture.

FWIW, the so-called "Southern accent" doesn't really exist, or at least the type of accent commonly associated with the South is not inherent to all the South. I have an "Okie" accent that borders on a West Texas accent at times, particularly in my use of colloquialisms. There are dozens of different accents in the South.

[wildeyed]

14. I live in the south, but I wasn't born here.

Maybe I am missing something, but I don't see what was so offensive about that thread, although I didn't read it all the way through either. Were there individual posts that were threatening to nuke the south or something?

Most Black Southerners I know really hate that flag. The Nazi analogy may not be a completely accurate comparison, but to many of our residents, close enough. I really hate that flag. I hate seeing it. And I have many white, southern, slave owning ancestors. I feel that their opulent life style was built on a foundation of hate and genocide. They stole the live of other people so they could enhance their own. I am not proud. I dunno, maybe I don't belong in this forum.

[Modem Butterfly]

18. My partner has confederate ancestors

My partner is a big ol' white guy from Alabama. He's always had what he calls "flaggets" trying to make friends with him, especially during the latest flag fight in Georgia. One of our neighbors tried to get him to sign a petition to bring back the "Stars and Bars" for Georgia's flag, and Will told him that however his ancestors had betrayed our great nation, he himself had fought to protect it (he's a vet of the 1st Gulf War) and wouldn't do anything to dishonor it. Our neighbor stopped being so friendly after that.

[Modem Butterfly]

17. What irritates the shit out of me...

...is that we're talking about a very brief period of American history. For instance, Georgia spent more time preparing for the Olympics than fighting the Civil War. So when is Izzy going to get a flag?

:evilgrin:

Some of the worst flame wars I've seen on the Internet have been about that brief period of American history. Everyone agrees that slavery was wrong, right? Everyone agrees that it's good the Union survived, right? So WTF are we doing REHASHING it at every freaking opportunity?