Pizza Perfection question...

[catnhatnh]

...I think I'm getting close to a fine greasy Sicillian pie. I am hand rolling store bought dough designed for a 12-14" pie and rolling it thin enough to cover a 16" pan and then cutting away several ounces of leftover dough (meaning REAL thin)...My obvious problem is using conventional ovens with a max 550 degree oven.I cook on a traditional aluminum pan for 20-22 minutes-again I am close but can anyone help me improve???

[troubleinwinter]

1. Maybe a touch of caviar?

I wonder if a standard oven would get hotter than 550 if you just left the broiler on for a good long time.

I also wonder about using a 'stone' instead of alum is better (less trapped moisture)?

I don't know, just wondering.

[catnhatnh]

3. Oh sure....Sneak over from a different thread...

...(where I told the truth)and bring up the seafood thing-I tell you right now that they at very least do not SMELL like something to get involved in....really I am still searching,but I assume that 550 degrees MEANS 550 degrees...But it is worth a try...I have to assume that a 550 degree stone could act as a heat sink-I would still have to use the pan-trust me,I would be better at peeling clothes than a pizza-and any photo would convince you that that was NOT the way to go...again,I am getting close-I'll put my "home" stuff against any national brand-but I come from Bridgeport Ct...and if you think THAT standard ain't high,check with the clown from Baltimore...He ain't God- but like myself,he HAS eaten some fine pies...

[troubleinwinter]

5. Ohmygawd!

"trust me, I would be better at peeling clothes"

You cook caviar pizza while in the nude??!! Can I have the recipe? I want to try it. Maybe a crustless version. Maybe toast points instead. A touch of liver pate, perhaps. Definitely in the nude, though.

[catnhatnh]

6. Oh SHIT-and you are a girl too...

...I'm just saying that EVEN less blessed girls look like 10's compared to my 2.7...And naked,I would definitely cool/put out any caviar heated to topping temps...There are SO many things I would lay on that hallowed crust before ew....(Fishy stuff)..I meaN,SURE,on a cheap, a girl is talking to me,type standard this is fun-yet tonight the pizza went down with portobello mushrooms sauteed in butter,wrights hickory smoke and colavita basalmic vinegar...Ah SHIT....you win-come and get me...I'll be here-50 AND naked...

[troubleinwinter]

8. Yer flirtin' with me, aintcha.

"EVEN less blessed girls look like 10's"

With lights off, I look like an 11 if the oven light is burnt out, too.

[catnhatnh]

10. I,m Tryin' HARD

Darling...I'm bettin' that lights out you look as good as me-and lights-out, I am a GOD...

[catnhatnh]

11. Well YEAH-there is a chance on earth...

that you are truly A.Female and B. Talking to me....not a bad blend....I doubt we will ever have the opportunity for a warm and gentle shower together...But sometime I miss voice communications in the female timbre...I must pack it in for the evening-but I could spend hours in your circle....regards,Cat...Check you manana...

[troubleinwinter]

23. For the sake of others in this thread,

I think we should just get married.

It will stop the outrageous flirting, and we do have so much in common... the love of caviar & liverwurst pizza, and pickled pigsfeet.

I betcha H2S will cater the wedding for us. Maybe some headcheese! Mmmmm!

[NMDemDist2]

24. it was only a matter of time

til C&B had a wedding

:loveya:

[troubleinwinter]

26. Do ya think H2S knows how to make a good headcheese?

I want this wedding to be PERFECT.

[NMDemDist2]

27. if he doesn't he knows someone that does!

:rofl:

[troubleinwinter]

28. What does one serve

as a complimentary beverage to headcheese? Champagne doesn't sound right. 151 rum sounds better, but not quite right.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Does one know what head cheese actually is?

HEAD CHEESE

Head cheese, also called souse and brawn, is a jellied loaf or sausage. Originally it was made entirely from the meaty parts of the head of a pig or calf, but now can include edible parts of the feet, tongue, and heart. The head is cleaned and simmered until the meat falls from the bones, and the liquid is a concentrated gelatinous broth. Strained, the meat is removed from the head, chopped, seasoned and returned to the broth and the whole placed in a mold and chilled until set, so it can be sliced.



http://www.foodreference.com/html/fheadcheese.html

I'm not so sure anyone would really like it.

[troubleinwinter]

33. Well, I liked it when my mother made it. But I'm probably the only one.

[Dora]

17. LOL! You Connecticutt yankees and your pizza!

EVERYONE I've ever met from CT is obsessed with CT pizza, nearly to the point of pizza intolerance. We have a dear friend who will dismiss ANY other pizza out of hand - it's almost annoying to be with him when any food-related subject comes up because he inevitably starts talking about CT pizza.

My only experience with a CT pizza is one that was brought to Texas in a suitcase then reheated - I was unimpressed: thin yes, but almost blackened on the bottom, tough, and the cheese was too sharp for my taste.

Seriously - is pizza a cultural artifact in CT? What gives? :shrug:

[Stinky The Clown]

19. Being a Connecticut Yankee ......

I can say that, yes, pizza is very serious business up there (I no longer live there, but I was raised in an Italian neighborhhod in Bridgeport).

There is some difference of opinion as to where what we know of as pizza in the US was really born. It is, for sure, in one of two places - NYC or New Haven, CT. The name of the NY pretender escapes me at the moment, but the CT place is Pepe's on Wooster Street in New Haven. It is still in business and still owned by the same family (now sons-in-law by the name of Bimonte). Indeed, they still have (and use daily as their only oven) the original (anthricite) coal fired 1906 oven.

The bottoms are, as you noted, charred. Not burnt, mind you ... charred. They're supposed to be that way. (NY pizza is pretty much the same thing and made in similar ovens - either wood or coal fired.) Also, to comment on your own experience, they don't reheat very well. There's a world of difference between a fresh one right out of the oven and one that's traveled.

Connecticut has a whole local vernacular around pizza, too. The word is even spelled differently. In the rest of the world it is 'pizza'. In Southern CT, it is 'apizza' (pronounced ah-PEETZ or, for many, ah-BEETZ). The cheese is different, too. Where everyone uses mozarella (and fresh is used by the purists), CT apizza is made with scarmoza (ska-MŌTZ (long 'o' sound))

Scamorza



Scamorza is a pasta filata (spun cow’s milk) cheese from Italy. Pear shaped, it is made the same way as mozzarella. This cheese is aged for a couple of days, has a chewey, stringy texture and is drier than mozzarella. It is available in smoked (affumicate) or plain (bianca). Both types of Scamorza are used in cooking, particularly in pasta dishes. The bianca is excellent served the same way as mozzarella, sliced thinly with extra virgin olive oil and fresh cracked pepper or fresh herbs. Try the affumicate served with ham, mushrooms or chargrilled vegetables, or any recipe calling for smoked mozzarella. Varieties sold separately.

http://www.igourmet.com/shoppe/shoppe.asp?cat=1&subcat=Italy&price=&ScrollAction=6

White pizza up there is mostly made with parsley and fresh basil (sorta made like a very coarse pesto), although spinach (more usual in the rest of the world) is not uncommon. They use a mixture of cheeses, too - scarmoza or mozarella mixed with some ricotta .... probably, originally, to mimic fresh mozarella.

The dough is made with a fine, lower gluten flour, too. The crust is properly crunchy at the edges and soft in the center (underchar notwithstanding). Also, it is not so thin that it lacks body or structure. A good pizza slice will, if folded at the crust edge, will stand erect on its own, and not flop over and drip down your wrist.

Anyway .... I could go on ......

Yeah, 'apizza' is serious business in Southern Connecticut. And afficianadoes are, indeed, a bit snobbish. :)

[troubleinwinter]

25. There was a thread here recently

where it was asked about what food are you embarassed about not liking.

I am the only person in the US that doesn't like pizza.

But your description sounds to die for!!!!! I think I don't much care for oregano, pepperoni and all that, but love basil.

I have tasted a fine pizza crust made by Peter Reinhart. The only pizza I ever liked.

[catnhatnh]

30. I TOLD you this clown knows pizza!!!

...For Ct pizza google Roadfood.com and under search choose Connecticut and Pizza as type...At least 3 New Haven pizza houses are reviewed (with photos) with one of the 2 on Wooster street named "The Best Pizza in the World" The 3rd place is named as the best pizza not made on Wooster Street.....Scamorza-Yeah,that's the ticket!!!

[Stinky The Clown]

2. The high heat of a true pizza oven is all the difference

You just can't get a perfect pizza from a wimpy 550°F oven like we're all saddled with.

I've put my pizza stones in the oven and set it for self-cleaning for an hour (as the preheat). That helped for the first two pies, but then the temp was sufficiently low that we were back to home type pizza quality.

Also, using the self-clean cost me my oven racks. The high heat ruins their finish and I need to get new ones.

Yup ..... all else being equal, the heat makes all the difference.

[catnhatnh]

4. OK,H2 SP....

can a lite weight produce it...I have seen E-bay stuff that looks like frozen pizza reheaters-but some offer 625-650 degrees....what is the real "minimum"???

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Serious pizza ovens get to about 700°F to 750°F ....

But even at 600°F you'll see a huge difference.

Our old electric oven had a bad thermostat that actually worked to our advantage. It got about 625°F when set to its purported max of 550°F

I don't know about those countertop jobbies that seem to always be on eBay. Somehow, I think if they were 'all that' we'd hear lots more abo0ut them.

[troubleinwinter]

9. Thermostat:

That's why I wonder if you could get the heat way up by running the broiler for a long time before cooking. It just stays ON, no thermostat. ???

[Stinky The Clown]

12. But with that comes intense top heat that isn't balanced by

bottom heat. The top will be done and the bottom will be closer to raw.

[BeTheChange]

13. Can you flip it over..

If you get the top close to done.. and the bottom is rawish, then you could take the dough out, flip it over, put it on a wire rack, top it and then slide it back in under the broiler.

Just a thought...

[Stinky The Clown]

18. Ooooohhhhh .... you do a prebaked crust.

That's altogether different.

With proper high heat, a smallish (properly thin crusted) pizza will cook in about 3 minutes.

Prebaking the crust is more akin to 'grilled pizza' which isn't so traditional.

[BeTheChange]

32. Well, if you cant get the high heat..

perhaps this could be a cheater method... dunno.

We have a brick oven built into our outdoor grill for baked goods during the summer and pizzas. That is my recommendation. You can build one yourself for the price of one of those pizza cooker things they sell.

[Tab]

16. I was going to suggest self-clean

Didn't realized it trashed the oven racks. I never took mine out anyway during normal cleaning.

Aside from the racks, how did the self-clean work? It always seemed to me that if the oven can go to 900 deg on self-clean, might as well make use of it...

[politicat]

14. Gas grill with ceramic bricks...

That's our current solution. We can get it up to about 650.

[Tab]

15. I've been fighting this battle for a while

I make a decent "artisan" pizza but I've yet to get one where the crust is pizzaria-ish.

The best I can suggest for a regular oven is...

Get one, preferably two pizza stones (or ceramic tiles). I put one on the bottom (on which to rest the pizza), the other above it (for radiant heat from above). I preheat at 450 for an hour. Going higher than 450 seems to increase likelihood of smoking, but doesn't incrementally improve the pizza much.

The stone makes a huge difference. When I originally got one, nothing seemed to be better - I had preheated, but to no avail. It wasn't until I learned that you have to preheat for a good hour that it made a difference. Then I added the second stone for the top level. Works pretty well. I happen to have a convection oven, which makes it all the better, but still I can't get to those high heats (although I will put an idea in a reply to H2S abovethread).

Beyond that, you need to go to some kind of customized higher-temp oven. I might spring for a NEMCO 6210 (goes to 700 degrees) but I have no idea if that oven will cut it. It might, I guess. If you want to try it, check out this link: http://www.kanokorn.com/pizzaoven.asp

[Stinky The Clown]

20. I'd be curious as to how satisfied you'll be with that Nemco

It may well work out well. The one's I;'ve seen tend to be used in bars and concessions that just cook frozen pizzas. That's not the oven's fault, but it does say I have no real experience with a good pizza made in one.

I **think** these have transite decks. That's a portland cement based imitation stone that does a pretty damned credible job of mimicing a real stone or brick oven floor. You can coook pizza and bread right on it (it was first used in commercial pre-fab bread baking ovens).

[Tab]

21. When I get one, I'll let you know

I note that they have different models. The one I mentioned cranks to 700 degrees. Others stay lower, and those are probably more suitable for nachos or frozen pizzas.

[babylonsister]

22. What brand of store bought dough do you use?

I've invested in the rolling pin; time to get serious!

[catnhatnh]

31. The photos were so nice I added the link...

Check it out...
http://www.roadfood.com
On edit:I meant to post this upstream after HB2Sparkly's paean to Connecticut pizza...Hit the link,select Ct and pizza under "type"...Top 3 places are Sally's Pepe's and Modern Pizza....

[Stinky The Clown]

35. That's a great site!

And the reviews of Sally's, Modern, and Pepe's are so good I can taste their pies.

[bettyellen]

34. i've seen these pans that are preforated.....

they almost look like mesh, they have so many tiny little holes. pizza style and also for5 baguettes, don't know who makes them, but they used to be in macy's quite a while ago.

[Tab]

36. I've got those

but it's still a poor replacement for a pizza stone

[bettyellen]

37. check out this link!

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php

[catnhatnh]

38. Thanks so much, Bettyellen.....

thats a GREAT link and I would have thanked you hours ago if I could have dragged myself away from it.....