So, it's definitely the cheese.

[hippywife]

For the longest time, 11 years in fact, I have been searching for really good pizza in Tulsa. It varies from hideous to merely passable. I've tried making my own and it too was just okay. So for a while now, I've just been buying Red Baron frozen 4-cheese pizzas and adding our favorite toppings. Not bad, and tons cheaper coz they go on sale for $3 alot, sometimes even $2.50.

With trying to eat a little better (even tho it's still pizza, that's the Friday night ritual around here), I decided to go ahead and try making them myself again last week. Found a good crust recipe:

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Pizza-Dough-III/Detail.aspx

Instead of sugar, I add a little under a tsp. of honey to the water for the yeast, and sub in 1/2 c. of ww flour. Brush it with olive oil and bake for 10 minutes at 400 before topping. Turn up to 450 for baking with toppings. Used my homemade sauce.

It was good but still something not quite right.

I've long had this nagging suspicion that it's the cheese. Back home, most of the pizza joints I like used provolone instead of mozzarella. I just kept forgetting to buy the provolone. So tonight, I had a ball of provolone and hand grated it fresh. That was it! The one we had tonight was the keeper. Husband agreed and says that works for him.

Finally! :woohoo:

What's your favorite pizza recipe?

[Stinky The Clown]

1. Pizza links right here in C&B

Here are my pizza thoughts .........

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=22498

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=22087

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=236&topic_id=33827

[hippywife]

5. I read through all of

those, well most of the third, just now. And the crust is really not the problem. The crust I made last night was really good. It had good flavor and was crisp in the middle of the pie and the edges were crusty outside, tender inside. I handled it very little, kneading very gently and only enough to get it to the stage where I could stretch it with my hands instead of rolling it. I used an aluminum pizza pan with all the little holes in it.

Granted it still wasn't as good as my favorite pizzerias back home but I'm getting closer. Probably as close as I'm likely to get since the husband pretty much insists on having at least some WW flour in it. With the tiny kitchen I have, I don't know how I would add yet another kind of flour. My cabinets and counter space are so cramped now! LOL I keep WW, unbleached AP, and bread.

Knowing me, I'll probably still experiment a little. The next time I will try to make the time to let it rise twice, as you've suggested, but last night the DH was pretty hungry so I was pressed for time and just let it rise 30 minutes. I'll likely try to jack up the oven temps a tad, too.

Getting a better flavor on top was what I was really going for and the provolone seemed to do the trick. I dunno, pizza is different everywhere you go, it seems. As we've discussed before, we seem to prefer the flavors of our childhood with all the memories they evoke. Even given that, pizza in Tulsa is really crappy so even the Red Baron was an improvement! LOL

Thanx for digging out those links for me, tho. I do appreciate it and enjoyed reading all the experimentation you've done.

[Warpy]

2. Get some barley malt from the health food store

and try that instead of honey. It is more readily used by yeast (being composed of glucose-glucose) and will impart a great flavor to the crust.

The few times I've bothered to make tomato sauce pizzas, I've used a combination of mozzarella and provolone. You really need the smoky flavor of the latter or it's just tomato flavored cardboard.

Tomatoes are hard on my tummy, so I tend to use multiple veggie and herb toppings and cover the whole business with the shredded cheeses.

[hippywife]

3. I agree on

the "tomato flavored cardboard" comment. Mozzarella alone and even in combo with some grated paremsan was just not getting it for me at all.

But I really have no problems with the crust I put together at all using the honey.

[Stinky The Clown]

4. It could be the mozzarella you're using

If it is the rubbery stuff that one finds in the soopermarket, that stuff is as far from real mozz as one can imagine .... and does, indeed, taste like cardboard. The fresh stuff (or at least the stuff that is creamier and packed in whey) is much better.

[hippywife]

6. That I know and

can't usually afford on a regular basis. I really had to spring a little extra for that ball of provolone, but it was worth it so lesson learned. The plan is to try making a margherita pizza the next time using the good mozzarella.

I tell ya, Stinky, I may not be the most knowledgeable person in the kitchen with regard to method and technique and presentation, but I keep plugging away at it and have had some pretty tasty results. The husband says he's never eaten this good in his life so I must be doing something right! LOL

I really do appreciate all the input. Folks here definitely come up with some of the finer touches that may not have crossed my mind. :hi:

BTW...did you ever get your dream pizza oven? I hope so!

[Stinky The Clown]

7. BTW...did you ever get your dream pizza oven? I hope so!

No .... alas, it remains a dream.

We have so many more important/pressing projects ahead of it. It woudl be easy to just do it, but then Sparkly would have every right to be upset with me. I don't like to upset her.

[hippywife]

8. Ah...

a wise man, you are. ;)

Maybe one day. Fingers crossed for you.

[Duer 157099]

9. I'm so glad you brought this up!

It's pizza time again at my house! I don't know, I think it's when I see fresh basil at the store, that does it for me. But it makes no sense, because 1) fresh basil is available year-round and 2) using the oven when it's just starting to get hot (90 here today) is crazy! And yet...

Anyway, I tried 2 different crust recipes the past couple of days, and they were both very different and both very good, although I need to slightly modify them. So, crust is not my issue (finally! -- thanks to my KitchenAid mixer that is)

But I wasn't happy with my sauce, and as you note, the cheese was blah (I used basic skim mozz plus a little parm). It was frustrating because the crusts were very good!

An aside - I finally found the "tiles" that are good for putting in the oven - last time I was at Home Depot, I was looking in the garden section, but they're in the flooring section - Saltillo unglazed floor tiles, foot square for $1 each. Hadn't measured oven interior but put two in side-by-side and they fit right up against the walls of the oven (which is not really good, I think there should be an inch or so around the whole perimeter). Was going to think about how to cut the tiles, but was so lucky -- on my first use, even though (after washing) setting on low heat for a couple hours to dry them out (200), they broke in half, right down the center! So now I have the right size pieces. On the second use, none broke, and it was at 500 for a good long time, too.

The crust was fantastic, texture-wise. This was all bread flour, and it came out fine (instead of the mix with cake flour as per Cooks Illustrated, which I had been previously doing). This crust would have felt right at home in NYC, it was that good -- I'll post the recipe later, but it started as the one Alton Brown has on the site, but I didn't exactly follow it (and the note at their site is correct about it being too much salt and I even used less than his recipe).

The second crust was a different style, with lots of olive oil in the dough. You have to roll it out though, since you just cannot stretch it without it breaking, due to the high oil -- but it was exceptionally tasty! It was essentially 4c bread flour, 2T honey, 1/4 c olive oil, 1/2 tsp salt, 1.5T yeast, 1c water -- note to mix in the oil only after the flour has hydrated with the water.

I'm not sure what's wrong with my sauce, though. One I did with fresh tomatoes, the other with whole canned (san marzano). Added some garlic, olive oil, salt, dried thyme oregano and basil, and a bit of sugar. Not deep enough flavor, so added some tomato paste and a dab of chicken better than boullion. Just wasn't right. And the cheese, eh.

So tonight? I have some of each batch of dough left, am going to see how it is when I combine them. But first need to go get some provolone. And figure out how to make a killer sauce.

Any killer pizza sauce recipes out there?

[hippywife]

10. I just use

my mushroom marinara sauce that I make for spaghetti but spice it up a little more...little more basil and garlic. It helps if I've had it leftover in the fridge for a few days or so, or in the freezer.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=236&topic_id=41634&mesg_id=41647
(Store bought canned tomato products until my garden comes in and I can start canning.)

I wouldn't call it killer but it works.

I baste the crust with olive oil and garlic, too.

I think the key, too, is to not use too much sauce. Just a light covering is what I've found works best. That way it doesn't inundate the cheese and other toppings. This time I used a mild provolone, might try a sharp provolone the next time.

Just my experience. :hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

11. Try a 'raw' sauce

Here's a basic recipe. You can play with it as you wish .....

1 can of whole, peeled tomatoes (preferably San Marzano or a high quality plum type)
Finely chopped (or **very** thinly sliced) garlic (to taste)
Chopped fresh basil, oregano, and parsley (preferably flat leaf)
Salt and pepper to taste.

Drain the liquid off the tomatoes and reserve. Crush the tomatoes by hand, squeezing them through your fingers. I actually use a potato masher on the tomatoes while still in the can. Careful .... they splash. Put the crushed tomatoes into a sieve and drain them into the reserved liquid.

Add the other ingredients and let it all sit for an hour or three ..... even overnight in the fridge.

Use the reserved liquid to loosen it up if it needs it. The sauce should be thick and on the dry side. If yu don't use the reserved liquid, just add some salt and pepper and drink it. It tastes like summer!

Use the sauce sparingly. Be sure to paint the pizza with olive oil before adding the sauce .... kind of as a waterproofing so your dough doesn't get soggy.

[hippywife]

14. Thanx, Stinky!

I will try that because I know there will be times I won't have my cooked sauce available. Plus is sounds very fresh!

[Duer 157099]

15. I think the "let it sit... overnight" part did the trick

The leftover sauce from the other night, after sitting in the fridge, was quite nice last night. Although, I did do some more to it too: sauteed some fresh garlic in evoo, chopped some fresh oregano and some crushed marjoram. Now the sauce was very good indeed, and it most likely was due to it having sat for awhile. Now I wish I had made more than I did, lol, cuz it's all gone now.

The experiment of mixing the two doughs together also worked out fine - the first recipe had been too salty. The only downside (and it was minor) was that the dough still could not be stretched, had to be rolled, but the final product was very good.

It seems to me that these floor tiles are working better than my pizza stone ever did, for some reason. Maybe they are a bit more porous and so absorb more of the moisture - don't know, but it's a good thing, because they are cheap! so when they crack (and they will) they are easy to replace.

I got some provolone and some fresh mozzarella, that really, of course, improved the cheese end of the equation.

Too bad it's so hot today! I had to wait til almost 9pm last night before turning the oven on!

[hippywife]

16. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

That raw sauce worked wonderfully. It was light and delicious. I really appreciate this, Stinky!

I used a mix of mild and sharp provolone and our usual toppings of crimini mushrooms, yellow onion cut up in chunks (I love it that way so it can brown a little) and hot banana peppers.

It was delicious! :hi:

[Stinky The Clown]

17. I'm so glad you tried it!

Yes, it really *does* taste like summer. Unless you grow your own tomatoes, canned actually tastes better than fresh.

[hippywife]

18. I am definitely

aiming to have homegrown tomatoes and canning as much as I can so then it will be even better. Some of them are San Marzano's and some Roma's.

I really do appreciate the input on this. It's helped immensely.

And I have been sipping on the tomato juice, which I love anyway. :D

[hippywife]

19. And thank you, again!

I'm sipping this lovely tomato juice for my breakfast this morning. I just took a few sips last night and saved it just so I could have it this morning. Yummers! :9

[htuttle]

12. I think the secret to great pizza sauce is a dash of crushed red pepper

Not enough to burn -- just enough to tingle on the tongue.

[hippywife]

13. Good advice! I love crushed red pepper.

Where I grew up, in central Ohio, we called it birdseed. If you called up or ate in any a pizza joint and asked for birdseed, they knew what it was that you wanted. I wonder if that's a regional thing. I haven't tried it down here in Oklahoma because I just figured it wouldn't work when I asked for peppers on the first pizza I ordered and got jalapeños.

Anyway, I put birdseed in my sauce when I make it and we also shake it on the pizza when we eat it. I also use it in things I want to spice up without adding a distinct flavor of its own. Like Thai food.