Fluffy rolls... help?

[Tesha]

I make great bread, muffins, scones, biscuits... but I'll be darned if I can make fluffy rolls. You know the kind, half air - not heavy - fluffy. The kind of rolls you have for a fancy dinner that when you butter them they squash...

a challenge by my hubby that I cannot meet - and this cannot stand...

help! please?

[NMDemDist2]

1. drop a PM to housewolf

she's the bread maven around here and loves to help

:hi:

[Warpy]

2. If you find out, share it

I generally make biscuits because I've never managed the soft roll, either.

I can do acceptable burger buns by making the dough wet and adding plenty of barley malt and fat to it, but they're denser than the purchased rolls.

[hippywife]

3. I make this recipe:

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Italian-Wheat-Rolls/Detail.aspx

except I change it a little. This guy forms his into rolls and just lets them rise on the baking sheet. I let them rise twice in an oiled bowl and then a third time as rolls on the sheet.

We think they're pretty fluffy.

[NMDemDist2]

4. this recipe isn't nearly as healthy, but sounds wonderful

http://allrecipes.com/Recipe/Butterhorn-Rolls/Detail.aspx

INGREDIENTS (Nutrition)
1 cup shortening
1 cup milk
1 1/2 teaspoons active dry yeast
1 teaspoon white sugar
1/2 cup warm water (110 degrees F/45 degrees C)
2 eggs
1/2 cup white sugar
2 teaspoons salt
4 1/2 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon baking powder
1/2 cup butter, softened



DIRECTIONS
In a small saucepan, combine shortening and milk. Heat until shortening is melted; set aside to cool. Dissolve the yeast and 1 teaspoon sugar in the warm water. In a large bowl, beat the eggs, 1/2 cup sugar, and salt together. Add the milk mixture and yeast mixture to the egg mixture, stirring to blend. Sift in the flour and baking powder, and mix well.

Cover, and refrigerate overnight.

Divide dough into fourths, and on a floured surface, roll out into 1/2 inch thick circles. Spread surface with the soft butter. Cut each circle like a pie into 8 triangles, and roll up from larger to small end. Place rolls point side down on a baking sheet, and allow to rise until doubled, 3 to 4 hours. Preheat oven to 400 degrees F (200 degrees C.)

Bake rolls for 8 to 10 minutes in the preheated oven, or until golden brown.

[hippywife]

7. Yeah, that first ingredient

took it out of play for me. :hi:

[TreasonousBastard]

5. I suspect it's the same reason you can't make Wonder Bread...

there are dough conditioners and other things commercial bakeries use that aren't readily available to the home kitchen.

However, the other recipes and hints here might help you come close.

(I've been stymied trying to do deli Kaiser rolls, too.)

[Warpy]

10. Exactly. I did the nutritional labeling for a big bakery

and was amazed by the number of black box "dough conditioner" types of ingredients.

I add barley malt to my rolls as an extra boost to the yeast. It also imparts a little extra flavor to them.

[housewolf]

6. Tesha - diinner rolls

Hippywife's been real happy with her dinner rolls and they always look quite nice, so you might want to check out what she's been doing.


First of all, I have some questions for you that will help figure out what's going on:
1. How do you knead your bread - by hand, stand mixer (if so, which one?), bread machine?
2. What kind of yeast & flour do you use?
3. Do you use any add-in such as dough conditioners, dough enhancer, etc.?
4. What is is about the rolls you have been making that disappoints you? What do they need in order to be the rolls that you want them to be?

I'm gonna point you towwards this recipe with the caveat that it's a King Arthur Flours recipe so it includes/recommends some of their propriety products; nonetheless, I think it's kinda useful because the directions are pretty good and the pictures also are helpful, and recommend that you give it a try (if you're interested, check out their KAF Guarantee - if you use the products specified (just their flour in this specific recipe) and follow the directions exactly, they guarantee that you'll have success with the recipe and if not, they'll work with you over the phone to get it right and send you a $5 gift card). Plus there are a lot of reviews of the recipe so you can get a good idea of how it worked out for other people:
http://www.kingarthurflour.com/shop/RecipeDisplay?RID=10



Some recommendations about the recipe:
1. King Arthur's all purpose flour is a bit higher protein than other all-purpose flours, so if you don't use their flour use half-and-half unbleached all purpose flour / bread flour.
2. The recipe calls for dry milk - use non-instant dry milk (this can be a bit hard to find and you'll probably have to go to a natural foods store/Whole Foods type of place, and you might only find it as an organic product, or you might find it in the bulk food section - just be sure it's non-instant). You don't quite get the same result using liquid milk - there's something about the drying process that helps the yeast.
3. Use SAF instant yeast if you can find it - it does make a difference. If you do a fair amount of yeast baking you can buy a 1 lb bag pretty inexpensively and it lasts for a VERY long time in the freezer (I've used some that has been in the freezer more than a year and it's still fine). Much cheaper in the long run than buying packets.

Tips:
Make sure that your dough is fully developed (kneaded) and that the dough is soft and moist (but not sticky)
1. Do you know how to do the "window pane" test to ensure that your dough is fully developed (kneaded)?
2. You want dough that is soft and moist - even a bit tacky - without being sticky (sticky means that when you touch the dough with your finger, gobs of dough stick to your finger. Tacky means that when you touch the dough with your finger, the dough might _try_ to stick to your finger but most (almost all) of the dough stays with the dough-ball)
3. The potato flakes are a key ingredient in this recipe - they act as a dough conditioner and yeast-improver, as well as contributing to the texture.
4. When you deflate the dough (i.e., punch it down), be gentle with the dough. You don't really want to push all the air bubbles out of the dough - rather, you want to maintain them as much as possible while redistributing the yeast to new "hunting grounds" that will continue to provide nutrients to the yeast so that they can continue to multiply. Somewhat gently, pull 4 "corners" of the dough ball from the sides into the center and turn it over... that's about all you really need to do.
5. Treat your bread-making like an experiemnt - it generally takes several-to-many attempts to "master" a recipe - to get it to where you consistently get the results that you want. So give each recipe that you work with a few tries, keep notes as to what you did and how you did it. Sometimes it's a recipe that fails but more often it's technique.

Another caveat - I'll echo what another poster said about not being able to achieve Wonder Bread-consistency in a home kitchen. I don't want to discourage you, but you're just not going to get King's Hawaiian Rolls in a home kitchen - they have special equipment and ingredients that treat the dough and bake it much differently from what we can do at home. They use specially-milled flours, have special mixing equipment that develops dough well beyond what we can achieve, use a variety of dough conditioners and improvers (their term, not mine), perfect humidity conditions, and special ovens.

But you CAN bake wonderful soft-textured, well-risen dinner rolls at home that you and your husband will love!

[Warpy]

11. Most health food stores have the non instant milk

pre packed into small bags in the refrigerated section. It can survive at room temperature but not as long as the ultra processed instant stuff can, one reason you need to go to a health food store to find it.

[Tab]

8. I will defer to Housewolf

our local baking expert, and goodness knows I'm not the one to ask about baking, so I should keep my mouth shut, but if I properly recall my baking science, it had to do with how the butter was folded into the dough. Folded too well was not a positive, if I recall the chunks make it fluffy.

Not sure if it's worth anything, but it's 6 a.m., I'm getting my son off to school, and am weakly posting in the meantime.

[Tesha]

9. King Arthur to the rescue!

I'd seen the recipe in my many searches, but since I don't keep either potato flakes or dry milk, I passed it by. But since the reviews seem to be super positive, more 5 stars than I've ever seen, I'll give it a try this weekend.

I'll let you all know what my sweetie says - He's been so spoiled, he simply expects to say "Honey, I'd really like..." and we just produce it - most often together.

notes from the recipe...
try to find Baker's Special Dry Milk
With todays different flavored instant potato flakes the variations are unlimited!
Add herbs to the mix
stand mixer worked better for texture than bread machine mixing

[Tesha]

12. Eureka! Fluffy Rolls!!!

I can now say I make great rolls too - since Mr. Tesha ate two standing at the island and then more with dinner! I used the recipe from King Arthur's site - thank you housewolf!

I used only the items listed in the recipe - straight potato flakes and simple instant non-fat dried milk. The mixer did the work, 7 minutes with the dough hook did great. I used less water than the maximum in the recipe, and let it rise longer.

The dough is soft and wonderful to work with, using a little oil on the counter instead of flour. Next time I'll set the oven to a little lower temp and take them out just a few minutes before the time listed.

Oh, and one more thing, I stored some of the leftovers in plastic overnight and some under a towel? The towel wins, the rolls from there were more tender this morning.

[eleny]

13. Oh my gosh they look a picture in a cookbook...

Congratulations!

[hippywife]

14. Congratulations!

Few things in the kitchen are more rewarding than successful baking. :hi:

[housewolf]

15. They're gorgeous! Congratulations!

They look wonderful. I'm so glad you had such great success with them. I'd love to grab one right out of your picture right now.

Hooray for you!!!! Good baking!