Taking my ebay La Cloche out for a spin today.

[Lucinda]

Wish me luck?

Looks like it was barely used. I ran it through a couple of bake cycles yesterday just to burn off anything that might be lurking.

I finally got a chance to mix some of the old Ain5 dough into the new batch and it's ready to bake. I'm really curious about this next loaf!

[Warpy]

1. First, don't worry about burning the cooties off anything

because baking temperatures will take care of anything that wasn't killed simply by drying out. A simple wash and light scrub will take care of anything on the surface before you use it.

Cooties, even the ones that form durable spores, can't withstand temperatures over 250 for over 10 minutes.

[Lucinda]

2. Good to know Warpy, thanks!

I've been a little worried about soap and other weirdness, since i have no idea what this puppy has been though in the past.

[The empressof all]

3. I'm happy it got there in one piece

Have fun with your new equipment. I'm sure your efforts will be beautiful and tasty to boot. I'm curious to hear if there is an appreciable difference in your end product with the cloche.

[Lucinda]

4. I think the guy cornered the market on bubble wrap.

It was extremely well packed. :rofl:

I saw a big jump in quality from a pan of water and uncovered baking, to my little old granite ware stockpot, and I do expect another shift with the clay. I'm just about to pop it in the oven so I'll know soon!

[troubleinwinter]

5. I worried about it arriving OK! Yippee!

A few hours ago, I pulled a loaf of dill rye from the oven. My first in a covered/uncovered pot with parchment (according to my mentor/babysitter, Lucinda).

Ohmygawd. I don't have words. The crust is crispy, thin and tender. I painted it with 50/50 molasses/water sprinkled caraway. Lovely sheen and taste.

Lucinda gave me a clue about resting the dough (in parchment) in a deep bowl to prevent spreading. It WORKED!!!

I found that cornmeal on bottom was making a tough crust. The parchment makes a thin crispy crust.

Leave me alone. I have dill rye bread to devour.

THANK YOU, Lucinda and all!!!!

[Lucinda]

6. I'm so glad the covered baking gave you what you were looking for!

I think it really does make a big difference to the crust and the oven spring.

I have made any rye in days...maybe the next batch!

[troubleinwinter]

15. You know my dad has been hintin' on some rye bread....

I made a MAGNIFICENT loaf this morning to take to him today as a surprise.

So I was tellin' him I'm headin' up there today. He tells me he's been reading an article in the Christian Science Monitor today about no kneed bread, and he wants to try it! Hahahahaha!!!!!!

I told him that we've worked out a bunch of tips & tricks & stuff here.

Yes, I'm using the cute 5 qt. enamel pot, parchment & resting in a bowl to prevent spreading. All yer tips! (I refer to you as my mentor!)

The dill, caraway, rye & molasses smell heavenly. And taste twice as good!

I have been glazing the rye loaf before baking with 1/2 water/molasses & sprinkle of caraway. It gives a nice carmelization color, sheen and taste.

BTW, you used 1/2 extra water to a half batch rye. I used about 1/3++ in a whole batch. Ya never know, eh? I'm glad you told me to wing it, cuz what do I know?!

I do think I may try a tad of bread flour to see if it helps the high altitude thing. But it seems less & less an issue.

So I am off to daddio's house with a big, beautiful, glorious, fresh loaf of dill rye... and he told me he has a batch of soup he made to gimme some!

[troubleinwinter]

16. Here is the CSM article

http://www.csmonitor.com/2009/0218/p18s01-lifo.html

It looks "off" to me.

3 cups all-purpose flour
1/4 teaspoon granular yeast
1-3/4 teaspoons salt
1-1/2 cups plus 2 tablespoons water

1/4 teaspoon yeast to 3 cups flour????!!!!!

[Lucinda]

36. I think that one is based on the recipe from the NYT about the Sullivan St. bakery no-knead

He uses a small amount of yeast and a lonnnnnnnnng covered rise time out on the counter. Like 16 hour long. I tried it once but prefer the Ain5 texture and flavor.

I'm sure it will work just fine though.

[troubleinwinter]

37. Yeah, I finally found that out.

The long 12-16 hour rise sounds inconvenient to me. I dunno where I'll be or what my mood will be in 16 hours!

The Ain5 lets you bake whenever the notion strikes. Much more convenient.

[Lucinda]

39. I will probably do a mix of Ain5 and other no-kneads, especially with bigases.

I really like that last loaf I made, but it does take a little bit more attention.

I am going to attempt sourdough soon too. :)

[troubleinwinter]

42. big asses, huh?

[Lucinda]

44. LMAO - was supposed to be biga's. Late night typo.

:D

[Lucinda]

35. I just saw this! Don't know how I missed it earlier.

I add different amounts of water based on the way the flour is reacting, so winging it is good. :) I'm going to try your water/molasses wash next time I make rye. Sounds like a great topper with caraway. :hi:

[troubleinwinter]

38. When I arrived at his house,

he had a la creuset lidded pot on the counter and a box of parchment paper! He asked if the pot would work. We decided what bowl he should use for the dough base and which for the resting. Looks like we have a new member of our Ain5 club!

He was VERY happy about the caraway on top of the rye loaf and lots of it inside. He only tasted a microscopic thin tip while I was there. I haven't heard his verdict on the bread yet (likes to keep me on the edge, I think... I know!).

[Lucinda]

40. Yup! Sounds like a definite bread geek to me. How hot are you planning on heating

the Le Crusete? I was reading things about damage to the plastic knobs. A lot of people were just removing them to bake. Some plugged the hole with foil.

[troubleinwinter]

41. His is OLD. The knob is part of the lid, not the plastic type.

[Lucinda]

43. Perfect. Nutin ta worry about then.

:)

[troubleinwinter]

45. For the pots that have the new crap plastic knobs,

The clue given here to take them off and replace them with a ceramic or glass drawer/cabinet knob was GOLD!

I was using a terra cotta saucer at first, then wanted a cover & used an overturned deep cookie tin, punched a hole & put a reproduction depression glass knob on it. Gooney and cute, but worked great.

Now I use my new covered enamel graniteware pot.

I love using the parchment paper instead of corn meal. The cornmeal seemed to me to make a tougher bottom crust, and the parchment is so easy. I love easy!

What do you find to be different in using the ceramic cloche vs. enamel?

[Lucinda]

47. I get a bit more rise with the cloche. And the crust is more crackly and less tough crunch-wise

Kind of like a good brick oven pizza crust as opposed to a regular oven baked one. They both are excellent, one is just a matter of preference. It also does seem to add a little bit more to the flavor. I think the overall difference may be the way the steam from the dough works in the heavy stoneware vs the lighter, not tightly lidded stockpot.

If my granite ware had not had exposed metal areas, and I hadn't found the La Cloche at such a great price, I would have been happy to keep using the graniteware. It's MUCH easier for me to handle it, since it's so lightweight. And it's easier to store and a breeze to clean up. I'm very happy with the cloche though!

I never used the cornmeal at all. I have a corn allergy, which I ignore from time to time when we have tamales or enchiladas, :D but cornmeal is too much for me to handle. Good to know how it works with the bottom crust though. I can pass that info along with the recipes to my family.

[troubleinwinter]

46. He is KNOWN as a geek. And a dork. He is an astronomer.

[Lucinda]

48. Sounds like someone I'd like to know!

We're sort of hippy-techno-geeks, but I do have geek friends of many persuasions.
I actually have hubblesite.org in my quicklinks. :)

[troubleinwinter]

49. He is retired NASA.

It gets worse though- my grandfather was an astronomer too. He was at the planetarium in L.A. at Griffith, then Director of Morrison at San Francisco, then Kilolani in Honolulu. My dad worked at Griffith and Morrison and as an observing astronomer at Lick when I was a baby, finally NASA.

My childhood was spent after-hours picking up the change that fell out of men's (in those days) wide loose trouser pockets during planetarium shows, then climbing into the pendulum pit to set up the pegs.

I grew up reciting:

Twinkle, twinkle little star,
How I wonder what you are,
Up above the world so high
Like a diamond in the sky.

Twinkle, twinkle, little star,
Now I know just what you are:
An incandescent ball of gas,
Condensing to a solid mass.

I remember when grandfather wrote it for a planetarium show.

During the lunar landings, my grandfather was on many TV shows. Family would sit and watch. Question: "Do you believe in extraterrestrial life?" (family laughs, because we know what's coming) Answer" "ABSOLUTELY!" Question: "Intelligent life?" (family laughs) Answer: "Sure!" (family laughs because we know what's coming:) A lecture on the age and vastness of the universe, then: Will we ever come in contact with intelligent life in our lifetimes? The chances are virtually nil. (Family laughs as interviewer realizes he isn't going to be interviewing any little green men anytime soon).

Dad sometimes sets up his gigantic telescope on his deck and has friends over. I do not attend. Had all of that as a kid. Sometimes he wants to go to a planetarium or observatory with me, but knows I won't go. If I never see another planetarium show it'll be too soon! A thousand is enough.

He has his computer set for the astronomy photo of the day, of course.

[Lucinda]

50. Very cool! I love the last two twinkle lines too! I went to Griffith Park Observatory

many moons ago when I was a kid. Haven't thought of it in years.

Bill is a big NASA fan. A lot of our best early "couple" memories are space related. Not long after we got together we were out on my porch and happened to catch a huge meteor shower late one night. :) On the very first trip we made to Florida together (he grew up there) we made a point to go to Kennedy.

I can imagine it would get to be a bit much after a zillion times, but we still love it.

[troubleinwinter]

51. Astronomer newbie bread geek on the loose!

Wellll.... he gave me vedrict on the rye dill I brought him a coupla days ago. He is Swiss and critical. He really loooved this bread. He only wants the caraway left off of the surface, as it makes a mess on the counter when sliced. :rofl: Like I say, he's Swiss... very tidy.

He especially liked the intensity of the rye flavor, and the MOISTNESS which is an issue in our dry area.

He wants to make the Ain5 himself. He went to get ingredients today. I called to ask if he made out OK and he said, "If you'll get off the phone, I can go make it!"

I sent him the tips that we have worked out, like parchment lidded technique.

I can see it now. He's gonna be makin' bread and showing it off all around town. We aint gonna get credit at all for all the experimenting we've done. But good bread will have been brought to the high mountains of Arizona.

[Lucinda]

52. We have definitely done our good deed for the day then!

I hope he enjoys making it, and becomes happily addicted!

[troubleinwinter]

53. OH MY GOSH! He did it!

Daddy's first loaf!



It is presently cooling!

He says he had some trouble with the scoring, that it seemed to close up again. I wonder if he maybe could use a tad more flour?

I think it's a fabulous first loaf! Better looking than my first was! I notice that he is in the hep groove of bread photos... cooling rack and bread knife for 'context' and 'atmosphere'!
:rofl:

(I wasn't there... he emailed the pic!)

[troubleinwinter]

54. Now he has called me...

It has just cooled and he's had two slices. He is thrilled. He is 80, raised by his Swiss grandmother and was raised on crusty French/Italian bread... then lived in the Bay Area until a few years ago. We simply cannot get good crusty loaves here in the Arizona mountains.

He's mighty happy. I said, "Wouldn't your grandmother be proud?!" He laughed and said, "Yes, even SHE could not make a loaf like this, we had to buy them from the baker."

[Lucinda]

56. How totally great!

He did a good job too! I'm so glad he's happy with it. I've had a rough day. This makes me smile. :D

[troubleinwinter]

57. You EARNED that smile!

You walked me through my learning of the process (along with other C&Bers), so that I could pass it along to him.

I recommend large doses of pumpkin pie and lazing about for awhile. REST and PIE.

[Lucinda]

58. That's exactly what I've done tonight

Pie, and my couch and a stack of DVD's. :)

[Lucinda]

55. That's soooo cool!

:D

[Lucinda]

7. Well...the results...

GREAT oven spring. A smallish blob o dough grew beautifully.

I got shiny bits of crust without any enhancement, hard to see it in this photo, but if you look in the middle you can see a bit....



The flavor was excellent too, even with the first loaf of a new batch. SOME of the flavor credit goes to incorporating a small amount of the last batch of dough, but it did made a difference in flavor and texture in addition to the oven spring. I'm a happy camper. :)

[The empressof all]

8. Looks beautiful

Makes me wish that I still ate bread. OK I do sneak some here and there but making it at home would kill me....I'd be rolling around a pile of crumbs on the floor with a stick of butter stuck in my hand....Might be fun...but it wouldn't be pretty.

[Lucinda]

9. LMAO

Now THATS funny. :rofl:

I low carbed for quite a while, trying to figure out what i could eat without pain. I REALLY missed bread. Turns out my body does better WITH it. I got lucky! I have to have bread for "medicinal" reasons. :D

[Tesha]

10. good lord!!

I've had that fantasy!

[housewolf]

11. What a gorgeous loaf!

You can come make bread for me anytime! Congrats on such a beautiful loaf!

[Lucinda]

12. Thank you! I'm making a bit of progress with no-kneads.

I've been digging in to your sourdough info today. It's really helpful!

I've never worked with starters before, but i'm excited about giving it a try! I'm turning into SUCH a bread geek. :)

[housewolf]

13. It's kind of adicting, isn't it?

You make a loaf, it's better than you expected it to be, then you get ideas about how to make it even better, you get great positive feedback all along the way... plus on another level it connects you back to the most ancient activity of working with the simplest of elements from the earth and transforming them into something delicious and nourishing...

So glad you're having fun with your breadbaking! Hope you're happy with your LaCloche.

[Lucinda]

14. I got the La Cloche for 4.99 plus shipping. I love to bake AND I love a great bargain.

It was a win/win for me. :)

I agree with you 100% about the desire to make it better being an impetus for experiemnting. I wanted a specific quality to the no-knead crust and I kept tweaking till I got it. :) I'm still tweaking for flavor.

And there really is something deeply satisfying about making your own bread.

[hippywife]

17. That is one incredible looking

loaf of bread there, missy! Great job. (Pay that damned Russian judge no mind!)


I'm getting really good flavor but not so pretty since Bill insists on whole wheat and I can't work that freakin' peel. :eyes:

[Lucinda]

18. I love whole wheat. Maybe you could do some creative slashing?

Might make you happier, visually speaking. That won't make it a lovely white bread though. :D

You should see the monster I just took out of the oven. I'm testing a new no knead recipe and this puppy is huge. :rofl: Will post pics later after I cut it. Bill made part of the dough batch into sesame bread stick thingys. He like the flavor and texture a lot.

[Shakespeare]

19. What a beautiful loaf!

I'm not sure how I missed this a few days ago, but--yum!

I've never done any covered baking before, so I've been following your La Cloche threads closely. :hi:

[Lucinda]

20. Thank you! I tested another no knead recipe today that uses a biga

We loved it.

And the La Cloche really helps to get a crackling crust that isnt too thick. I was very happy with my covered stockpot results too, but the stoneware bakers rock.

[Shakespeare]

21. I need to pick up a banneton (or two) on eBay anyway, so...

...I'm keeping an eye out for a good deal on a la Cloche, too (like I need more kitchen paraphernalia!).

[Lucinda]

22. There are two La Cloche now at pretty good prices

The first is much cheaper and might not be seen by people because it's listed as Sassafras (the La Cloche manufacturer) That's why I was able to get mine for such a great price. Some people looking for La Cloche probably never searched the manufacturers name.


http://cgi.ebay.com/SUPERSTONE-POT-SASSAFRAS-STONE-CLAY-POT-COOKING_W0QQitemZ330309329351QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCookware_Bakeware?hash=item330309329351&

http://cgi.ebay.com/THE-ORIGINAL-SUPERSTONE-LA-CLOCHE-BY-SASSAFRAS-1982-NEW_W0QQitemZ260362909103QQcmdZViewItemQQptZCookware_Bakeware?hash=item260362909103&

There are also a couple of the long baguette style bakers.

I've been shopping for bannetons myself, but I'll probably pick up a danish whisk before I get a basket. My stainless bowls are working well for proofing, and I'm not very strong, so a good whisk seems like the better first choice for me. :) And 6qt buckets, I NEED 6 qt buckets. LOL

[Shakespeare]

23. Oh, I'm all over that $6.99 la Cloche!

Thanks for linking that (I'd seen the other already, but was looking for a lower price)!

The bannetons on eBay (most of them are from the same seller) are priced really reasonably (search under both banneton and brotform, as she lists them alternately under both names).

I just broke my super-size mixing bowl about a week ago, so that's gotta be replaced ASAP. :cry:

[Lucinda]

24. Thanks for the brotform suggestion! I'll look for it. I am still using my HUGE

stainless bowl, and probably will get a second one. They are inexpensive, indestructible, and very light weight compared to a crockery bowl. That's the one negative about abandoning my granite ware stock pot. I could lift it, loaded, in and out of my oven, with one hand. :D Can't do that with the La Cloche!

[troubleinwinter]

25. It seems more straight forward

to go to that eBay seller's regular website Brotform.com. There are all the various shapes and liners. Shipping on the website is flat $4.99 (ebay lists a bit higher).

What is the advantage of these baskets over any other sort of bowl or basket or liner?

[Lucinda]

26. The banneton gives you a little bit of artistic flair

A floured coiled basket will imprint on the dough as it rises, then if you cut slashes into that, it can make decorative patterns.

[Shakespeare]

27. They're also to wick moisture away from the bread as it proofs.

Traditionally, they're made from bare/unfinished wicker. I'd be wary of using random decorative baskets (unless I were also using a cloth liner), because those are usually varnished or have some other form of petrochemical finish on them.

Plus, they're just kinda cool. :7

[Lucinda]

28. I usualy use my parchment & stainless steel bowl combo, for boules.

Works really well. I don't want to wick moisture away. I want it present when I cook in the covered pots. So if they do, it might not work well for me.

I probably will get a banneton at some point. Just to play with the decorative possibilities. :)

[Shakespeare]

29. Here's a wikipedia link.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banneton#Proofing_Equipment

[Lucinda]

33. Thankie! Thats good info to have. This is all so new to me!

:hi:

[troubleinwinter]

30. Yowza!

That IS beautiful. It reminds me of ancient Anasasi pottery.

So, the purpose is basically visual, I take it. But they sell cloth liners, which would seem to defeat the purpose of obtaining the beautiful pattern.

[Shakespeare]

31. No, it's utilitarian, too. Helps develop a good crust.

The wiki link in my post above explains it a bit. :hi:

[troubleinwinter]

34. The link was very interesting!

As I read it, the usefulness of it is more important in a longer rising bread than in the 40 min. rest Artisan/5 method.

Thanks for the link. It is good to understand the basic background, techniques and theories, even for those of us that are using the simpler methods.

The more we know, the more we know!

[Lucinda]

32. My purpose would be strictly visual since I don't want the wicking capabilities

I think some people use them for storage/presentation too.

I think the wicking capabilities would depend a lot of what the material is. I don't think the coiled cane would be quite as much of a moisture grabber as unsealed wicker. Shakespeare's wiki link above is interesting.