any ideas on how to make my sour dough more sour?

[Kali]

I am playing around with my very first batch of sourdough starter, have made 4 or 5 loaves now (just in the bread machine - my oven is defective and I am lazy) they seem to be getting better and better, texture wise but they sure aren't tangy the way I remember San Francisco Fisherman's Wharf to be. (or even the local Beyond Bread version)

It's good bread and I like that the yeast bill is so much lower and no oil either, but I would love to have that "tang" too.

[Tesha]

1. KAF has something interesting...

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/extra-tangy-sourdough-bread-recipe

they add:

"1/2 teaspoon to 5/8 teaspoon sour salt (citric acid), optional, for extra-sour bread"

[Kali]

2. thanks!

also in the side bar it said this:

"What makes the sour in sourdough bread? It's a combination of lactic and acetic acids, created as the dough rises and ferments. Refrigerating the dough encourages the production of more acetic than lactic acid; and acetic acid is much the tangier of the two. Thus, sourdough that's refrigerated before baking will have a more assertive sour flavor."

interesting

[housewolf]

3. Can you tell me about your sourdough starter and the recipe/bread book(s) you're using

Then I'll have some ideas for you that should help.

[Kali]

4. it was just a basic recipe from a bread machine book

"Great Bread Machine Baking" by Marlene Brown

the starter recipe called for bread flour but I have not ever used it so plain unbleached flour - 2 cups
2 tablespoons sugar
2 1/4 teaspoons yeast (Fleishmans from the jar)
2 cups warm water or potato water - I used potato

replenished with each loaf using a cup of flour stirred into a cup of water

the bread recipe I have been using:

1 cup starter
3/4 cup warm water
4 teaspoons sugar
1 1/2 teaspoons salt
3 3/4 cup flour
1 3/4 teaspoon yeast (I am using a bit less, actually because I am cheap and almost out :P )

baked on "french" setting

oh - I don't know if it matters but I am at 4500 ft elevation

[housewolf]

5. I've actually never worked with a starter made with sugar & a lot of yeast like this one

But here are some general hints for making a more sour bread

1. Time - time is the best friend of a good sourdough bread. A two-day recipe should get you some good results.
2. Use a recipe that calls for a sponge, either a stiff or batter-consistency sponge. Make up your sponge, let it sit out for a few hours then refrigerate it overnight. This will allow the flavors to develop.
3. Then make your final dough, incorporating the sponge that's been in refrigerator with fresh flour, water & salt. Let it sit out a few hours and then refrigerate up to 24 hours. Take out the refrigerator, let it sit out for a few hours to warm up and rise, then bake.
4. Work with a recipe such as this one http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/extra-tangy-sourdough-bread-recipe
It mentions using citric acid for a super-sour loaf, but you might want to try without it a few times as your starter matures
5. New Starters mature and develop flavor over some period of time as they are used consistently. They require some regular attention and maintenance to become a stabile, reliable element
6. Ditch the sugar


Hope that helps some....

[Kali]

6. my understanding

is the extra sugar and yeast are there because of the bread machine's limitations on rising times - I really want to play around with real baking but my oven is a POS and the budget doesn't include a new one or even the potential parts right now. Maybe I will build an adobe wood fired horno in the back yard - heh. Bet it would make fabulous pizza!

[housewolf]

7. Oh - bread machine

Yeah, that's a different sort of animal. The Bread Machine Digest used to be a wonderful resource for making sourdough bread in a bread machine, but it's been a very long time since I've looked at that so I can't really vouch for it now. I'm sure you can find other resources on the web. What machine do you have? Is it programmable?

You could still adapt some of the ideas I gave you - such as preparing the sponge a day ahead of time.

Best of luck to you.