'tick or 'tin .... how do you like/make your pizza?

[Stinky The Clown]

Another opportunity for a pseudo flame war .........

While I love all kinds of food and can wield a french knife or whisk with the best of 'em, my very favorite food is pizza. To me, a search for the perfect pizza is like the search for the Holy Grail. I almost never fail to seek out the local 'legendary' pizzeria wherever I go. I've been known to eat pizza for lunch several days in a row when in a strange city, just see what's available. I have yet to find a consistently great pizza that meets my high standards, but a few come so close as to be considered the best (in my opinion). Both of these places are in New Haven, Connecticut ....... Pepe's and Modern. In the local 'Italiamerican' dialect, these two places (and most of the others in the greater Southern Connecticut area) call it, not pizza, but 'apizza'. It is pronounced ah-(b)peetz'-<eh>. This local dialectical oddity is all but gone by the time one reaches Stamford or New London and is virtually unheard of in NYC. Both Modern and Pepe use ancient honest-to-god brick ovens fired with coal and/or wood. The pies are thin and charred and not overly dressed. The crust alone, with no topping is pure goodness .... yeasty and light with great pore structure, a great crust, and those delightful charred spots from the intense heat of the oven.

.... and my mouth is watering .....

Now, it is said that there is no one 'correct' pizza. Further, it is now held that pizza has transcended its Italian roots and has become a truly international dish that has benefited by the near-endless variations and local adaptations. As perfect (to me) as the two great New Haven pizzas are, they are not the same as the 'true' Neapolitan pizzas one finds in Napoli. There, the crust is a tad thicker and a little less crusty. But the ingredients are better. The bufala is what was made that day. In New Haven we have either bufala flown in, or more likely, fior di latte made that day or, at worst, the day before. Subtle differences, to be sure .... but different none the less.

Chicago's deep dish pizza is as much a casserole as a pizza. but, while a purely American (Chicago, to be correct) invention, is no less valid as a pizza as any one could imagine.

I had a memorable pizza in Ginza, in Tokyo. Very much in the Neapolitan style and in a restaurant run by Italians.

There's a second story restaurant near the Pompidou Center in Paris that served a truly remarkable pizza at lunch. It was not Italian, but it was wonderful. The char was perfect, so clearly they were using a blast furnace of an oven to make 'em. The toppings were appropriately spare and as fresh as the morning dew. And it was one of the few places I encountered in Paris where one could get Pellegrino.

Buenos Aires has a whole pizza tradition all its own. I've not been there, but a recent issue of Savoir magazine had an article so well written, it is as if I've tasted it.

The new 'California pizzas' like those from Wolfgang Puck and California Pizza kitchen and the hundreds (thousands?) of mom and pop places selling them .... with all the wonderful - and decidedly non-Italian - toppings and flavors are quite special and perhaps the height of the art of changing pizza to meet local tastes .... or to even establish **new** local tastes.

One thing is true ..... your favorite pizza is influenced most strongly by that first piece you ever tasted. All future pizzas you eat are measured against that first magic bite ..... probably when you were just a little kid.

What's you favorite pizza type? Thick or thin? Soft or almost cracker-like? Laden with goodies or spare and clean? Italian cheeses or things like cheddar?

My favorite is a thin crust, coal or wood fired pizza with raw tomatoes, bufala or fior di latte, basil, a hint of garlic, salt and pepper. Simple, simple, simple.

[merci_me]

1. I have three favorite kinds

I love Chicago deep-dish, very yeasty with just enough sauce, fresh tomato, oregano and basil and LOTS of REAL cheese, mozzarella and provolone, melted so it drips all over the place.

Another is New York style thin, yeasty crust, not too "crackly". Lightly sauced with mushrooms, basil and oregano and a covering of nicely melted mozzarella/provolone.

Or no sauce, but a slathering of garlicky olive oil, fresh tomatoes, spinach, mushrooms, basil and oregano and scattered slices of fresh lightly melted mozzarella.

Oh geez, I did NOT need this topic. I gained 4 lbs in Little Rock!! But I guess it's off to Br*thers Pizza tonight, anyway. Thanks a lot, H2S!

Mary

[babylonsister]

2. Thin all the way! And you're right, H2S, I agree that your

childhood influences your tastes later in life. I was blessed to grow up near NY pizza; the thinner the crust and the more oil that dripped down your arm, the better!
Besides NY, I had a truly great experience in the Dominican Republic. We were staying in Boca Chica where every pizza place had their own oven; that's the only way to go IMHO, and light on ingredients, heavy on flavor.

[Sparkly]

3. Ok, that's it.

We're havin' pizza for supper tonight.

[babylonsister]

4. Sounds good, Sparkly! LOL! I asked for advice on how

to make crusts awhile back; I now have 4 frozen crusts and I pkged job. Haven't made any yet!

[catnhatnh]

5. T'in n' GREASY....

with large amounts of scammozza pulling off with the first bite to slap down and scorch my chin....also the surprise should cause me to loosen my hand so the steaming limp crust can droop and drop steaming tomato sauce in my lap.....JEEZUS, it sounds HORRIBLE but that really is something I love...

[Stinky The Clown]

7. Scarmozza ...... Yeah ... that's a Bridgeport/Stratford thing .......

We usta get fresh scarmoza at Cuttrefella's (a dairy and ice cream store, not a pizza shop)on Boston Avenue back in the day ..... I bet Cut's is loooooong gone.

Scarmoza (ska-MOATZ') is a sorta aged (couple of weeks .... but not fresh like mozarella or fior di latte) mozarella-like cheese that melts really good and has a taste somewhere between mozarella and provolone. Its about the consistency of the 'part-skim-plastic-package' supermarket mozarella ..... but is a much. much better cheese ... and hard to find. There's one Italian grocery a few miles from there that carries it. They get it from New York.

http://www.mozzny.com/scarmoza.html

[catnhatnh]

9. I knew it,I knew it,I knew it....

you were a local at one time!!!!!!
(and not to quibble but little brother says "nah-Barnum Ave..."....)

[Stinky The Clown]

10. Barnum ..... yeah .... you might be right .......

I always get 'em confused these days.

Do you remember Cutrefella's? I remember, when I was still a very little kid, going in there. They had an electric eye on the door that automatically opened it. I though that was nothing short of amazing. Mom always hadda yank me away cuz I'd walk through it over and over just to see it work. :)

That was back when I was just a liiiiiittttle bitty clown.

[mtnester]

46. Tin and crunchy, with the pep edges turned up and crunchy too

little pep

OK, so now off I go to order from Kingy's cause it is Monday and I do not cook on Monday's.

[catnhatnh]

6. By the by H2Sparkly...

....I've read a number of your posts here and else where...I see you claim a Baltimore/DC type residence but you seem to have a very cosmopolitan outlook AND an intimate knowledge of Connecticut...Give a hint to a Bridgeport boy...what is your vocation and do you have Connecticut ties? (Yep-those New Haven guys are fair to middlin' but in Bridgeport it was always Salerno's....)

[Stinky The Clown]

8. I was born and raised in Bridgeport .....

....... but haven't lived there since 1972. My folks moved from Bridgeport to Hamden .... mmmmmm ...... 1975-ish. They're whole generation's gone now ..... but I have a lot of cousins in the area - mostly in Stratford now.

I'm a commercial kitchen planner (very, very, very large kitchens ... kitchens that typically feed thousands per day .... not hundreds) and travel quite a lot. Well, I used to, but now have the younger folks travel for me. I only go on trips to places (or for jobs) that interest me at this point. And where I can take Sparkly and make it into a vacation, too.

Salerno's ..... I had forgotten about that. They're still there? I haven't been to Bridgeport, except to drive through on the turnpike, in years and years.

I grew up in the east end ...... went to McKinley School at the corner of Hollister and Stratford Aves. If you go there, you'll see why the whole family left decades ago. Last I saw, it as like a war zone. Beirut-on-the-Sound! Back when I lived there, it mostly Italian. I'm going back in a few weeks for my 40th (ouch!!!) HS reunion ... but that'll be held in Stratford. I went to Notre Dame, back when it was where Sacred Heart Univ is now, on Park Ave.

on edit .... yeah, I'm now in the Baltimore/DC area. Have been since '79.

[catnhatnh]

11. Exceedingly small world!

Born in Bpt, Raised in Stratford (Lordship section if you know it) Stratford high class of 71....Cousins went to both Notre Dame and earlier Blessed Sacrament School...65' guy Hmmm? The Greeks or Briarwoods? Greaser or Prep? Pleasure Beach?...In short many memories,as to Salerno's-not really sure, I moved to New Hampshire in the early 90'S. But I remember Frog Hollow well and bought tons of bread when the Portugese were there. FWIW- I found a great website dedicated to "East End Remembrances"-if you're interested I'll look it up...Thanks for the memories...

[Stinky The Clown]

12. Small world, indeed!

Lordship ... yup I know it. Usta hang at Ahearn's for a time. Then I got a job there for a summer and ran the roller coaster. As a kid, we used to go to the dump across the street back when you could scavenge. I built more than a few bikes from junk we found there. Of course, you had to fight off the seagulls to do the scavenging, but it was fun. There were cars full of families every Saturday. It was like a family event! Who'da thought scavenging at a landfill could be fun?

I went to Blessed Sacrament Church and to the school for 'religious class' every Tuesday afternoon. I still dislike Dominican nuns. Sister I'm-Gunna-Wack-Your-Ass was the worst. Do you remember Blessed Sacrament back when it was basement and a roof ..... before they built the church on top? It was built on a former salt marsh/swamp and they were afraid the gound would not support the whole church so they left it as a basement for years and years.

Yup ... '65. Notre Dame dominated all competetive HS stuff statewide. Football, Baseball, Basketball, Track, Swimming, Girl's Field Hockey ... even the damn debating team and chess team!

Briarwood's more than the Greek's, but went to the Greek's often fer hot dogs.

Greaser

Pleasure Beach all the time. Usta go to Short Beach when I was dating a girl from Lordship.

[catnhatnh]

13. Ok...Last off topic post fot the night...

...Nope don't remember Blessed Sacrament as a basement...Usta could tell who my paisans were by screaming "Who made you?" and if they snapped to attention and answered "God made me!" then I could figure they had spent some time with the 103 questions in the St Joeseph's Catechism...Being a few years younger than you I figure you ran the roller coaster for me (though I doubt I'd recognize you).My favorite treat there was a vanilla soft serve ice cream cone with a pistachio hard shell dip-though for dogs or burgers we'd head down around the corner to Prussian's or the Cricket....But when chili was involved a trip to the Windmill was required....Then when older I "Beertended" at Pop's on the seawall...anyone remember 15 cent 12 oz drafts (a 20 oz was a quarter)...Bet you roller skated Lordship!My first house was half a duplex in Success Park and I was born when my parents lived in Yellow Mill Village (Later Father Panik) which was much nicer than their first apartment on Hickey St (off Surf Ave) that they rented from a relative but was still serviced by an outhouse (1947-even in Bpt the (greek) next door neighbor kept goats).Anyhow-Thanks Iloved the stroll down etc,etc etc....

[tishaLA]

14. Thin. Brick Oven. Simple Toppings

Made by Tacconelli's in Philadelphia. Those who know travel several miles outside of center city to get this pizza--and they even have to call to reserve the dough early in the day to get it. That's how good it is.

I simply do not eat California pizza OR Chicago-style "pizza." They are not pizza to me.

[Stinky The Clown]

17. Tacconelli's ........

There are at least two of them. The original's in the Richmond Park (??) section of Philly, right? I think the reason you have to reserve the dough is because they have a small oven and their production is limited. At least that's what I've heard. I was there a long time ago and can't remember it too clearly.

The second location is in New Jersey (Audubon? Haddonfield? Maple Shade?) and has a spanking new Woodstone oven, the state of the art in pizza making and the only kind other than brick allowed with VPN Pizza Napolitano. I think this one is owned by the kids of the original owner. I ate there several times since it is right off I-295 and not too hard to get to. Their pizza's really great!

[catnhatnh]

15. Flame war booster...

..thick crust aficionados are dense...

[eleny]

16. My favorite isn't thick or slim thin

I'm a native New Yorker and when we visit we still go back to Sal's pizza place on the avenue in the old neighborhood. Through many new owners over the years since I was a kid, the pizza is still the same.

It's a medium crust that feels thin because when you bite into it, it has a certain soft-crisp to the crust. It's hard to describe. But the combination of the soft and luscious sauce and cheese plus the crisp bite and chewy crust makes it my favorite.

[Stinky The Clown]

18. New York pizza ......

New York is the birthplace of pizza in the US and probably has more **truly** great places than any other city. I'm not sure which Sal's you're talking about, but there are many of them. Most are unrelated to each other (I guess Salvatore was a popular name for Italian male children long about 1880-1900 :) )

The 'not so thin' you describe ...... about a quarter inch thick? Enough to have some body but not so much as to be bready or doughy. That soft/crisp thing. That's nirvana. The crust state sought for but not always achieved. In other words ... just about perfect.

That said, I'll still put my New Haven pies up against any from NY. :)

[catnhatnh]

19. Also...

...in Bridgeport, Salerno's was Sal's....Also if I remember correctly my Grandma referred to "Salvation Army" as "Sally's Botique"...so it was Salvatore,Salerno,Salvation...Whatever...

[eleny]

23. There's a great Salerno's Restaurant in Queens, too

It's sort of fancy but we'd go in jeans, too. It's been there since the 50s. They had some great Italian seafood meals. I chowed down.

[eleny]

20. Soft/crisp nirvana - that's the description

And yes, Sal was a very popular Italian first name. I knew so many Sal's from the neighborhood.

My Sal's Pizza is in Queens. I know I'd never be able to duplicate it. The oven to crisp the bottom - not in my kitchen. So I enjoy whatever pizza we get for what it is. I'm rarely disappointed, actually. A couple of cheap dates - what can I say! :D

P.S. I just saw your clown pic and I love it! It makes me so happy to look at it. What would we do without this C&B group after a week like this past one?

[Stinky The Clown]

21. " ...... after a week like this past one?"

No shit!

C&B is like having coffee at a friend's house and just chatting away amiably, shoes off and feet on the next chair .......

[eleny]

22. hee-hee

my bare feet are up on the side of the desk. :spray:

[Stinky The Clown]

24. That's how Sparkly surfs!

Me .... not flexible enough to type in that position!

[eleny]

25. I'm trying to figure out how to get a small recliner in here

Then I can surf, then watch tv and then :boring:

[Gregorian]

26. Thin.

This is fun! Exactly what I am spending my energy on lately. I'm even sitting here eating pizza as I type. I totally agree with the Holy Grail thought. I am currently on a six month roll of nothing but pizza for lunch. I always have one pizza on hand.

I am still trying to work out my dough recipe. The basis is the sour dough starter I grew. And I am working on the details of how to get the right crust. When to put the salt in the dough- before punching down or after. Or to leave the salt out completely. So far my most successful dough has been starter, flour, and water. And I'll probably die before I get it right. One of the difficult things is how to keep the crust from being ruined by the toppings. I literally put about a half pound of mushrooms on my pizzas. And that puts out a lot of h20. Even on a well heated stone at 550 degrees, I get ponding. BUT, there have been times when I had perfection. (You know, this isn't a whole lot different than pulling espressos. I use a La Pavoni, and it has taken a thousand pulls to get it right.)

Oh yeah, one very important ingredient I have just realized, is fresh basil. That alone really perked up my last sauce.

I sheepishly admit that my measuring pizza is that found at Round Table. As sacreligeous as that sounds, remember I had my first one in the early sixties. They were a lot different back then.

I've come around to using Tillamook extra sharp cheddar. I think it's because it is the one cheese I can get that's really quality. I tried Asiago, and as much as I love it, it doesn't make as good a flavor as the cheddar.

I know the pizza I'm trying to create. It's loaded. Extra red sauce, occassionally has pineapple, sometimes shrimp, sausage, olives.

My answer is - thin crust. But you can see we need an entire thread devoted to pizza. Maybe just pizza dough recipes, even.

[eleny]

27. I wonder if you could add the mushrooms right at the end

I mean, bake the pizza and then right near the end of the baking drop the mushrooms on. They're so delicate that they'd wilt quickly. I only mention this because of what you said about the water they release.

I admire your perseverance with pizza making!

[Gregorian]

30. Good idea....

but the way I layer this monstrosity is that the mushrooms are in the midst of the whole affair. I usually put the olives and sausage above them. But there's no reason other than copying what I've seen. Your idea is yet another method to try.
Perserverance is my middle name. I've a bit of Lance Armstrong in me. If you think this is bad, you should see what I've done with real estate. I finally had to force myself to stop moving. I'm a perfectionist with perserverance. Not a good combination for a stable, satisfied life. One of the reasons I'm working on cooking is that I've actually got a place to cook. I literally bought bare land and lived while building a house a few times. Try cooking when all one has is a propane burner. Oops, almost forgot- this is a thread about PIZZA! MMMMmmm.

[housewolf]

32. I lived for 2 - 3 years with nothing but a single propane burner...

I went through SOOOO many of those darned little propane canisters trying to cook things! I had a very limited cooked food menu those days! Definitely no home-baked pizza.

[Stinky The Clown]

28. 'shrooms ......

.... if it were me, I'd cook the 'shrooms before using them on pizza for the very reason you mention. They are so high in water content that they soak anytihng they're on. Cooking ahead of time makes this less an issue. Plus you can garlic 'em up ... and I **love** garlic.

Have you ever thought of using dried 'shrooms? Reconstitute them with hot wine instead of water. We absolutely love dried porcinis and always save the liquid left after rehydrating them and use it as a flavor in its own right.

After you rehydrate 'em, give 'em a squeeze to get rid of as much water as possible. This way they're not really cooked and not really raw .... and maybe for your purposes, just right.

[Gregorian]

31. Yes. Good stuff.

I love the idea of amending the shrooms. I have to precook them and see how that goes. I believe I did it once, and it was a big mess. But the garlic idea is enough to push me into perfecting the precook idea. I think having a 900 degree oven is what takes care of these kinds of troubles. I'm lucky mine goes to 550.

I have a ton of dried mushrooms around. That's also a beauty of an idea. Wow. When I was younger (translation- before I lived through the 70's), I had great skills in memory and creativity. I seem to have lost those, along with my eyesight. One problem is where I live. There is very little in the way of good stuff. I suppose I could do an online order. But I try to refrain from all of that shipping stuff, for ecological reasons. I'm now living in southern Oregon, and it's pathetic. In fact, as sad as some of my pizzas have been, they've all been better than any of the pizza places around here.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. La Pavoni ..... a work of art .... but a royal pain in the ass to use

I **really** envy you for mastering yours. I have one and have gotten some truly memorable shots out of it. But that was almost by sheer luck. I finally just decided to give up and use it as a display piece. They're truly beautiful mechanical devices.

Have you done any modifications to yours? There are several sites on the internet devoted to 'hot rodding' La Pavonis. These are obviously of interest to the truest of the true believers.

I'll stay with my two Saeco superautomatics. 95% perfection (never 100%) but soooooo easy .... just push a button and kick back and enjoy!

[Gregorian]

33. Aha. Espresso.

I can't say that I've mastered it. But I am getting very drinkable espressos. It seems that in all of my experimenting, I got my best shots doing the weirdest things. I have had shots that were indistinguishable from hot chocolate. That was pretty interesting.

From what I've seen on the net, the modifications are pretty slim when it comes to the Pavoni's. I am thinking of a more automatic machine, myself. But I wanted to start on a manual machine to get to the heart of making espresso. I'm a mechanical person, so it was mandatory that I do it that way.

Right now I'm getting good shots every time. But I'm not a purist. My shots are half milk, half espresso. You could say I'm a lightweight. I don't like black coffee.

The key is the grinder. I've got the Mazzer Mini. It's the Coffeegeek recommendation.

Two Saecos. Wow, sounds like you spend a lot of time in the kitchen. Bravo. I think I'll go pull a shot right now. Mmmm.

[NMDemDist2]

49. it's all in the grind and tamp, the machine is like a golf swing

the same every time. the trick is to get consistant with it. Depending on where you live you may have to adjust your grinder every time. humidity makes a huge difference as does your tamp style.

I have a Saeco too and am about to get another one, since my DH is gonna steal mine to go out into the roasting shop, I get a new one for the house :woohoo:

[The empressof all]

34. The best Pizza is in New Jersey

I would travel 50 miles to get pizza at Three Guys from Italy in the Path Train Station area in Journal Square in Jersey City. I haven't been there in years....I can only hope that it's still there. I have eaten Pizza all over the world and it was by far the best. Thin crust with a high roll factor. To me a good pizza needs to be thin enough to roll from the pointy tip. It had enough oil to make the cheese just slippery enough that you could slip it off if you were so inclined.

Someone please tell me this joint is still there so I can dream that I will be able to visit once again!

[Stinky The Clown]

35. "Three Guys from Italy"

That puts me in mind of "Two Guys from Harrison", the discount stores. Now they call themselves just plain "Two Guys" .... if, indeed, they're even still there. Seems like I remember the stores being very, very junky.

Are you from/in that part of Jersey? My Mom was from Patterson and her family is still in that area .... Totowa, Patterson, Wayne, etc.

[The empressof all]

37. I worked in a Two Guys when I was in High School

I was born in Jersey City and lived there until I was 10. We then moved to South Bergen County. I haven't lived in New Jersey though for over 30 years. I do visit on occasion but haven't had a chance to get the Three Guys Pizza for ever.

Two Guys was a pretty junkie store for clothing but they were the 1st "Super Store" that I can recall. Carried groceries, clothing, hardware......whatever. The one I worked in was huge; two stories. They went bankrupt many many years ago. I think they've been out of business for 20 years or so.

[politicat]

36. Fav shop: Beau Jo's Mountain Pies; Bits and Pizzas; method: thin-thick.

Beau Jos is a Colorado micro-chain that makes unique pizza (including one with ranch, bacon, chicken, spinach and tomatoes that is really interesting.) It's thin in the middle, thick at the "bones" and utterly not like pizza anywhere else in the US.

Bits and Pizzas was the mom and pop shop that I grew up with in Northern AZ. It is still there, but the quality has gone to the dogs. Their pizza used to be these huge, flat sheets with a crust measureable in microns in the center, with a load of mozzarella and muenster, and a nice round outer ring. Blotting the grease was necessary to eat the slice without a bib and gloves. Most of my high school lived on a noon slice of cheese or meat and lemonade and a small green salad for 2.25 for years.

However.... neither are readily available to me, so when I make my own or buy from others, these are the criteria:

1. The Sauce. The sauce must not be sweet. Sauce which contains sugar (even minute quantities) ruins the whole thing. In my opinion, the sauce should be little more than tomatoes (or paste, depending on season), olive oil, garlic, oregano and maybe some salt and pepper.

2. Crust: Whole wheat's okay, but that's another bird. It's not pizza if it's a whole wheat crust. Whole Wheat is... healthy. An unbleached flour crust made with olive oil and water is essential. Herbs are optional here.

3. Ingredients must be appropriately pre-cooked. Precooking pepperoni is silly; chicken, essential. We prefer meatballs or sausage, onions and mushrooms and green peppers in general. I like various others, but that's me.

4. Cheese - enough and appropriate. I find that I like the muenster addition, as well as fontina, provolone, or ricotta. I want the cheese to have a flavor of its own.

I've found that the best way to cook pizza at home and get it properly cooked is outdoors with the gas grill. I heat the pizza stone for 20 minutes while I assemble the pizza, (bringing it up to about 400 if I don't lower the gas) and bake it in the closed grill. With the hood closed, I'm getting at least 700 in there. (I have a Target Aussie grill by Samsonite.) The pizza gets baked and the water gets evaporated and the house doesn't become an oven itself. (We'll see if I am still interested in this process come December.)

As my ex used to say.... pizza is like sex... Even when it's not great, it's still pretty good.

[ironflange]

38. I make them thick

I try to make them thin, but they always come out thick. Doesn't much matter, they're still extra good.

[Mandate My Ass]

39. Me too. I roll and roll the dough

but once it hits the pizza stone it rises like crazy. Luckily I like it both ways, so I get thick at home and thin when I'm out.

[ironflange]

40. I just call it "Chicago Style"

[Spock_is_Skeptical]

41. I like it almost every way there is, really

I'm just fickle that way. When I make pizza, I vary the way I make the dough... sometimes for thin, medium, thick. Just whatever mood I'm in.

I guess I don't really have a favorite.

[NMDemDist2]

42. my absolute favorite is the Chicago style. I worked at a place where

the woman who owned the resturant had been trained by the original "Chicago Style" pizza guy (can't remember his name now) but i was fascinated by watching in the kitchen (I ran the bar there) as they made the pizza "up side down"

cheese, meat, veggies then pour the sauce over the top and bake

still my favorite but Mr. Ketchup never really warmed up to it. Maybe if I called it "Italian Casserole" instead he'd come on board LOL

Presentation is everything, right?

[Duer 157099]

43. Kicking, just because

I'm on a pizza kick

[Stinky The Clown]

44. Hahahahahahaha

I logged into this forum and was shocked to see this ancient thread come up!

You trying to start another flame war????? :)

[Duer 157099]

45. Flame war? Heavens no, I'm just trying to make me a good pizza

and when I was advised to search the archives guess what I found?

I'm on a quest. It started with Boboli, then progressed to some abomination in a plastic bag I found near the cheese section of Trader Joes (the label said "pizza dough" but I disagree) and now I've finally taken that step, the step beyond which there is no going back, and have decided I must make my own dough. But I'm not a baker, so I'm learning.

If a flame war ensues, all the better :)

[Stinky The Clown]

48. Wutcha got in the way of tools?

A stand mixer? A food processor? The Lord's Mixer (hands)? A hand held electric mixer won't cut it at all.

There are different variations on the basics, depending on the type of mixer you have.

[Duer 157099]

51. I've got the 2H & AWS model

That is, 2 hands & a wooden spoon :)

edit to add: and a bowl

[Stinky The Clown]

55. Wow ... that's all ya knead!

Here's a recipe from Emeril that's actually pretty good.

While many of us use a stand mixer, the fact is, you can get dough as good or better by hand. More dough is ruined by overmixing than undermixing.

Let us know how this basic starter recipe turns out.

[NMDemDist2]

47. I worked at a place in Sacramento called "Zelda's Pizza" and Zelda

learned to make pizza in Chicago at the Original Chicago pizza place. I tended the bar but was amazed at the way they made the pizza "upside down" and to this day it is my idea of perfect pizza. 2" of Mediterranean goodness YUM. Mr. K, however, well.... not so much.

I tend to like a medium crust with lots of air in it, TONS of cheese (I don't care what kind, but I want it to OOZE) with fresh toppings, tomatoes, herbs mushrooms and if there's meat, make it a dry meat (pepperoni or salami)

But as long as the crust is tender and the cheese is deep, I'll enjoy most anything :evilgrin:

[eleny]

50. Must.Have.Pizza.Must.Have...

[Duer 157099]

52. I saw a Food TV show about that kind of pizza recently

Not sure which show it was, maybe Best Of?

But that was the first time I saw a pizza made like that, upside down, cheese on the bottom -- and if I recall, they put a crust on top? Not sure if I'm remembering that correctly. I think I'd bypass the top crust in any case, as long as the bottom was a really good thick crust.

I hate to admit this in this thread, but my favorite deep dish crust is the Pizza Hut one. But then, I tend toward NY style pizza, so don't have much deep dish experience. Or, maybe their dough is actually good (could it be?)

[NMDemDist2]

54. they make em in what's basically a round cake pan

line the pan with dough, put in the cheese and other toppings, pour the sauce over the top then bake

[htuttle]

56. The outside of their crusts are basically fried

I worked as the 'doughmaster' one summer at a Pizza Hut (that was supposed to be my 'job-title' according to Michael Jordan on the training video I had to watch -- wonder if he realized he'd have to make those when he signed with Pepsico?). I had to make all the dough for the pizza crusts everyday.

For the deep dish ones, after the big vat of dough was prepared, I was supposed to squirt a really healthy dollop of vegetable oil in each of the deep dish pans, and just drop a blob of dough right into the oil in each one, where it would remain, in the cooler, until it was used.

When you went to use the crust, you'd just press down on the ball of dough to make it conform to the pan, then put the fillings on top of it in the middle of what is a flat circle. The crust on the edge raises up while cooking to give the impression of 'sides'.

But you can hear the crusts sizzling when they're in the oven, frying away in the excessive vegetable oil in their pans. Some people like it, I guess. Way too greasy for me.

I much prefered the thin crust pies, but had ongoing disagreements with my manager about how much cheese to put on them. Their 'corporate recipes' really skimp on the cheese. It isn't enough to even cover the tomato sauce before it goes into the oven.

[Duer 157099]

58. Oh doughmaster...

I have a question for you....

Is the pan pizza dough different than the regular dough, or is it just the oil (corn oil? veg oil? canola? crisco?) that makes it like that?

Yep, it definitely looks and tastes fried, that must be why I like it so much.

But, it's also got a sweetness that I don't notice in the regular crust.

Did you actually mix up the dough from scratch? Are you sworn to secrecy?

:)

[htuttle]

59. It all came from corporate approved pre-mixes

Unfortunately, I do not know the actual ingredients in the dry mix we used.

IIRC, the regular crust dough was a different mix than the pan dough. We also used pan dough to make breadsticks. I think there was probably a good deal of sugar in the pan dough, especially.

I would guess, based on how it cooked, that the pan dough mix had baking powder in it, instead of yeast. The same might be true of the regular dough. The dough 'rose' (as much as it rose) in the cooler -- not a great place for yeast to rise.

Nowdays, the closest thing I can think of to the Pizza Hut pan pizza dough would be something like fry bread or even bisquick. The pan dough we made was only a little less sticky than the fry bread dough I make at home. The regular pizza dough was fairly dry so that you could toss and spin it. That was the best part of the job...:)

Check these out -- just found them:
http://pizza-hut-recipes.blogspot.com/2006_02_01_pizza-hut-recipes_archive.html
http://pizza-hut-recipes.blogspot.com/2006/02/pizza-hut-style-dough-mix-recipe.html

[Duer 157099]

60. I think I'll try that -- dry milk seems the only different ingredient

As for the oil in the pan, given the choice between:

EVOO
Crisco
Veg oil
Canola oil
Corn oil

Which would you choose?

Thanks! I might try this tonight.

[htuttle]

61. I'd use regular corn oil (or maybe canola)

It will get very hot in the oven, and you want to make sure the oil doesn't completely deteriorate or evaporate.

[Duer 157099]

64. Pizza Hut Pan Pizza recipe -- tried it, works

Just did this one tonight, it worked perfectly! Only thing I changed was that I only had lowfat dry milk so used that instead.

Awesome crust, the pool of oil on the bottom of the pan did the trick alright.

Pizza Hut Original Pan Pizza Recipe

Dough:
1 1/3 cups warm water (105° F)
1/4 cup nonfat dry milk
1/2 teaspoon salt
4 cups flour
1 tablespoon sugar
1 package dry yeast
2 tablespoons oil
9 ounces oil (3 oz. per pan)

Put yeast, sugar, salt, and dry milk in a large (2 qt.) bowl. Add water and stir to mix well. Allow to sit for two minutes. Add oil and stir again. Add flour and stir until dough forms and flour is absorbed. Turn out on to a flat surface and knead for about 10 minutes. Divide dough into three balls. In three 9" cake pans, put 3 Oz. of oil in each making sure it is spread evenly. Using a rolling pin, roll out each dough ball to about a 9" circle. Place in cake pans. Spray the outer edge of dough with Pam. Cover with a plate. Place in warm area and allow to rise for 1 to 1 1/2 hours.

Top as desired, bake at 475 degs until it looks right (10-15 mins)

[Gormy Cuss]

53. Make: thin. Like, both

But the dense Chicago style crust is not my first choice for thick crust. I prefer what I was raised to call Sicilian, which was made on quarter sheets or half sheets and had a texture more like focaccia with standard simple toppings like tomato and cheese. Thin crust must be pliable enough to pick up the slice and fold it in half lengthwise -- classic NY/NJ/New Haven style.

I don't like lots of goopy cheese - just enough of a layer to cover the dough.

[mike_c]

57. the one true pizza has thin crust....

Anything else is just schwag.

[MelissaB]

62. Yummy! Yummy! Yummy!

Pizza has been out Sunday night tradition for years. We make the crust and sauce ourself, and now, thanks to this forum, I even cook them in my mother's iron skillets. You guys forced me to drag them out and clean them up. I now use them all the time. :)

Yummy in my tummy!

[NMDemDist2]

63. amazing how smart our grandmothers were huh? those cast iron

skillets are the best :rofl:

[MelissaB]

65. Yes, they are.

I also ordered new ones through Amazon, and they aren't as good as the old ones. I now have 7 iron skillets and what I call a bread pan that Mother used to cook biscuits on.

BTW, those small skillets make perfect pan pizzas for the kids.


Here's one of the skillets I bought from Amazon. The "pores" just seem larger and they don't have the smooth finish like the older ones.

[Duer 157099]

66. I can't seem to season mine properly

They keep getting rusty, and I keep starting over and scouring them down to a clean surface, go through the whole oil/oven thing, keep them in the oven between use to make sure any excess moisture dries out, and yet... RUST!!

Now I have to start over, again.

Maybe I should just take a trip to the thrift store and look for a seasoned old one.....

I want to make pan pizza in my little one, but I have to re-do it first.

[MelissaB]

67. Are you using new or old skillets?

So far, the new ones I ordered, even the pre-seasoned ones, aren't nearly as good as the old ones. I keep thinking that if I used them more they will get better. They have improved some, but they can't touch the ones my mother had.

I just used a new one this morning to fry bacon for the kids and noticed it is improving...

[Duer 157099]

68. I think I probably got them new, but many years ago (>10)

[MelissaB]

69. Well, we are kinda in the same boat.

I'm going to keep an eye out at thrift stores and told my aunt to watch for the at auctions.

These new ones can't compare.

[NMDemDist2]

72. I learned a good trick somewhere for those thrift store "finds"

if you put them thru an "oven clean" cycle all the old stuff supposedly cracks off and away

it shouldn't hurt the true seasoning but I haven't tried it. I don't think I can leave my racks in while the oven cleans and don't know where else I could set the pans in my electric oven

[MelissaB]

73. My aunt has a wood stove and this fall she is going to put them in there.

I think she gets some really hot coals and puts all around them, and it burns everything off. She seasons them them with bacon grease after they come out and cool.

[NMDemDist2]

76. better! and my grammy swore by Crisco lol n/t

[Gormy Cuss]

77. So did mine!

Crisco is just for cast iron and biscuits, isn't it?:+

[NMDemDist2]

78. and Pie crusts

:evilgrin:

[NMDemDist2]

70. here's an old post of mine with some GREAT links on the "care and

feeding" of cast iron.

do you dry them by heating them on the stove? then you should re oil them before storing them

check out the links in here and see if something waves a red flag for you

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=236&topic_id=11062&mesg_id=11179

[NMDemDist2]

71. I think that's normal for brand new. it takes time to build up the carbon

that "seals" the pores

here's a post with a couple links to cast iron care from a couple years ago

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=236&topic_id=11062&mesg_id=11179

[MelissaB]

74. Sounds like I just need to have patience.

I'll have to run out and get some. :rofl:

I can tell that one skillet is getting better.

[NMDemDist2]

75. yeah, pick up a six pack for me too eh?

:rofl:

seriously, fry every greasy thing you can think of in it every chance you get!