Math advice

[MrsMatt]

I'm looking for any advice and/or strategies for helping my 3rd grader with math.

My daughter is really struggling with the basics in math; identifing place values, making change, addition and subtraction, telling time, you name it. She has been identified gifted/talented, just NOT in math. My husband & I have been trying very hard to help her, but we simply do not have the skills (plus we have a 10 week old baby that tends to fuss just when we're in the middle of math homework)

We're ruling out ALC - she went to summer school this past year and ended up being bullied by another student (we only just realized the extent of it this past week, as we had initially chalked it up to personality disputes). The social worker at school tried to get our daughter into mediation with this other student, but she declined.

Anyone know anything about Sylvan Learning Centers and/or any computer software that can help her? Hell, we're even thinking about getting a piano and having her take lessions in order to work that side of the brain. Any insight would be greatly appreciated!

[MassLiberal]

1. been there...twice!

Both of our daughters (now 15 and 12) started having trouble with math in third or fourth grade, and we ended up hiring a tutor to come to the house to work with each of them once a week. It helped a lot. Neither of the girls feels particularly confident about her math skills, but at least at this point they know their way around numbers, operations, etc., and can navigate their middle and high school math classes.

I hear that Sylvan is expensive and not always helpful. Private tutors can be expensive, too, but you might be able to shop around a bit. Our tutor was phenomenal and on the low end, cost-wise. She tailored her lessons to each of the girls' interests, which made the sessions much more fun for them.

Talk to your daughter's teacher, too, to see how s/he sees things and to be sure that s/he'll work with you in whatever solution you seek for your daughter's needs. Good luck!

[Shine]

2. I have a daughter in the third grade this year, too....

and it's true, the math requirements have really picked up. It's good that you're getting a handle on this so early in the school year.

I would suggest discussing your concerns with the teacher and enrolling his/her support. I'm sure s/he would be able to point you in the right direction, in terms of tutoring referrals, etc..

It could also be that your daughter is simply taking a small step backward while she adjusts to the huge change of having a new sibling to contend with. Plus, it sounds like the summer school experience wasn't exactly perfect, with the bullying kid.

Although your intentions are good with the piano idea, it might just end up causing her more anxiety, on top of all the other big changes she's got going on. In general, however, music and math can go quite nicely together...I'd just wait a bit before thrusting another big change on her.

Good luck and keep us posted!

My two cents,
Shine
:hi:

[SW FL Dem]

3. My son went through the same thing

Some kids just aren't ready to grasp the concepts. It is really frustrating, one day he would understand something and the next day he would have NO clue. I've been told that a lot of it has to do with the level of brain development. Kids don't fully understand a concept until they are ready. My son was really helped by computer games (Mathblaster) and other games that took some of the pressure off. We also hired a tutor (one of his teachers) who worked with him at her home once a week. The thing that seemed to help the most was just repetition. Don't assume she gets it, until she gets it month after month. We continually went back and reviewed earlier chapters. Some teachers assume that if a kid can do multiplication or place value in September, that they will still get it in December and that isn't true for all kids.

My son is now in 9th grade and pulling a B in Algebra. He's still going to a tutor once a week, it's expensive, but it is working. She can explain things to him in a way that he understands. I can do the math, but for some reason, can't teach it to him.

Hang in there! If your daughter continues to struggle, consult your teacher and school counselor, there may be something they can suggest or your daughter may qualify for some extra help from the school. I learned too late that my son would have qualified for free tutoring and extra math help. I just didn't ask and they didn't tell me.

[cally]

4. Have you tried using pennies or marbles

to teach the concepts? Sometimes it's hard to grasp the abstract concepts until you see it and touch it. I know Learning stores have many kits with this stuff.

Both my kids learned their addition/subtraction and multiplication facts with mathblaster and with the multiplication rocks CDs. I also agree that a tutor may be needed. Many retired teachers tutor and they know what the schools expect.

[MrsMatt]

5. yes though I probably haven't worked

with her enough. I'd been relying on my husband to help her, since they are both left brained artists (I thought that he'd have a few more insights on helping her figure things out), but he hasn't been very successful. I'm really thinking a tutor is the best option, along with rote drilling of math facts (she just keeps forgetting them).

Oddly enough, we just received her SAT10 scores yesterday (from 2nd grade), and she scored above average in Geometry & Measurement, and Estimation. But her scores in Procedures really stunk!

[MrsMatt]

6. Thanks for all the suggestions!

I'm hoping this is all just a developmental lag, and that she will learn this when her brain is ready. My greatest fear is that she may have a learning disability - it runs in my family, and she exhibits some of the behaviors (poor handwriting and spelling, easily distracted). But then, she's always been an "outside the box" thinker, and math is very much an "inside the box" skill.

Wish me luck!

[mzmolly]

7. Singapore Math is rather inexpensive and may be a fun way to

supplement while helping her learn? I believe the approach is a bit different then what is typically used in the US. They have inexpensive workbooks along with a CD that is well regarded called "Rainbow Rock." This CD helps re-enforce math concepts in the early grades.

Be sure to buy the US version of Singapore Math should you give it a whirl.

You also may want to try teaching with objects around the house. My daughter loves when we used her toys or candy for math, though yours might be a bit old for that? For example, if she's having an issue with fractions you could bake cookies while doing math and then use them for fractions when your done.

I think perhaps your daughter needs to back up a bit and start from scratch learning WHY/WHAT we use math for in our daily life? Often times kids are not interested because they don't see the rational behind a certain subject. "Why am I learning THIS?"

Another possibility is that she has a learning disability? I think mathematical disabilities are harder to spot than reading disabilities.

There are gifted kids with LD's and they are more difficult to define as well.

Best wishes.

PS Singapore Math is supposed to be ahead of US math a bit, and from what I gather, your daughter may want to start with level 2B, as the areas she's having issues with are listed in the contents. 2B is considered the 2nd half of second grade. You could do one lesson daily 5 days a week, and I bet she'd improve?

More info on Singapore Math here:

http://www.singaporemath.com/contents_PM_US_Ed.htm#Primary Mathematics 2A

Here is the ordering page. I'd order the textbook, workbook and home educators guide.

http://www.singaporemath.com/primary_math_US_ED.htm#primary%20mathematics%20Order

I bet you could order the entire year for less then one or two tutoring sessions at Sylvan. ;)

The Rainbow Rock CD and more can be found here:

http://www.singaporemath.com/math_cdroms.htm

More info on being gifted with Learning Disabilities here:

http://www.google.com.ar/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rls=RNWE,RNWE:2004-45,RNWE:en&q=gifted+with+learning+disabilities

And more specifically here:

http://ericec.org/digests/e479.html

I myself have always been very verbal, but had a very hard time with retaining math formulas etc. Ironically enough I became an accountant.;) Thank goodness for calculators!

I remember my fifth grade teacher becoming frustrated with me because I grasped a particular math concept yet forgot it by the time she got back to her desk.

Another thing to consider might be your daughters learning style?

Keep us posted.

[MrsMatt]

8. Thanks for the info!

We do plan to have her evaluated for a learning disability in November, as it does run in my family.

[Ms. Toad]

9. Play lots of games

which include logic, reasoning, and spatial relationships). (Dominoes, Life, Jenga, Rummikub, Monopoly, Clue, Yahtzee, Tic-Tac-Toe, Mancala, Flinch)

Watch for every single opportunity to use math in every day life - figuring out the price after using coupons at the store; calculating the tip to use in the restaurant; figuring out the cost of the meal at McDonald's - how much does she safe by buying the meal rather than the individual items; double recipes; have her keep a log of the miles per gallon used in your car; price shopping (most stores have unit prices posted so you can start just comparing and work up to calculating); estimate every chance you can get (both spatial and numerical - how many cans of juice do you think the pitcher will hold; about how much will these five grocery items cost).

Don't be afraid to let her use a calculator. I taught 9th grade math to children with about 3rd grade math skills for a number of years - once I let them use calculators and the arithmetic was no longer a struggle they not only got better at problem solving they also got better at the arithmetic.

Don't make math only something you sit down and do (puts too much emphasis on spending concentrated time on something that's hard) - integrate it whenever you can.

Here's a link to a book I really like: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0912511060/104-8759845-4957510?v=glance

[GoddessOfGuinness]

10. Piano lessons are a great idea!

Music serves as a direct application for everything (math, language skills, foreign language, history, science, physics...yeah, everything) your child is learning in school; and it's even FUN!

Piano is a great choice for a beginning instrument, because it's easy to make a decent sound on and play in tune, thus reducing frustration for you and your kiddo.

Whatever you do, don't freak out about her struggles. My father was ridiculously impatient with me as a kid, and as a result my stomach still goes into knots when confronted wih tasks that involve mathematical thought. I'm convinced that all kids develop most of these skills at their own pace if people wouldn't thrust "standards of learning" upon them when they aren't ready.