Do we remove our daughter from school or not?

[Sabriel]

We're in a quandry and a living nightmare, and we could use some input from disinterested parties (I'm also cross-posting to the education forum).

My daughter in 1st grade suffers from episodes of low blood sugar, which she (and we) manage with frequent small snacks when she feels herself crashing. Unfortunately, like many 1st-graders, she gets distracted and sometimes forgets, which can lead to periods of spaciness and in more extreme instances, altered behavior such as dizziness and belligerent attitude. We turned in a note from her pediatrician in September, her Kindergarten teacher specifically warned her 1st-grade teacher about it, and we've mentioned it frequently throughout the year.

Last Friday, she asked her teacher if she could go out to her backpack to get a snack (as we've drilled into her that she must do when she's starting to crash), and she was refused. The teacher was involved at the time with another melting down student and told our daughter she could wait 10 minutes until lunch (which she can't). After a couple more refused requests, our daughter went ahead and tried to get her food anyway, at which point, the teacher picked her up and hauled her down the hall to a chair in the principal's office, where she had to sit (snackless) until her blood sugar crashed. At this point, she started tipped over chairs and pushing papers on the floor, none of which she recalls, being altered and out of it.

My partner arrived to find our daughter being physically restrained (arms wrapped around her body and held tight) by the counselor (still no snack!) and took our sobbing, shaking child home. I met with the teacher, principal, and counselor in the afternoon, and they proposed that our daughter was merely using the "snack thing" to "manipulate us" and to get out of doing school work, and "we can't have that." To cap it off, they want to start a referral process for special ed, basing it on her behavior when she's altered (which they were responsible for letting happen in the first place).

We're at a loss at what to do. Let me say that we're both former teachers and also teach at the local university, so it's not like we're novices in the field of education. We've just never seen anything like this and don't know how to proceed. Neither one of us can see her going back to that school...it's poisoned to us at this point. And frankly, I'm not sure she's even safe there anymore. They obviously don't believe her blood sugar is a legitimate problem, and they use physical force to intervene, which has happened more than once. We never, EVER use force with our children, and I hate the message that they're sending her: it's OK for people to grab you and hold you against your will. Don't fight or struggle!

Does anyone have any suggestions how to proceed? If she gets a special ed referral, it'll follow her to any new school she attends. Do we need a lawyer? Do we write a letter to the superintendent which spells out the incident and our on-going concerns?

Right now, we're holding our daughter out of school. She thinks she's at fault and keeps apologizing, and it's heart-breaking. It's a nightmare.

Thanks for reading this far.

[wildeyed]

1. I would go to another school, just based on the fact that the principal

is not supportive. If it was just the teacher, you could move your daughter to another class, but the principal is hostile, so that makes it harder. Maybe get her in a place with smaller classes that is more child centered? Maybe a Montessori or an experiential-type learning school where the kids are up and around a lot already. That way when your daughter needs her snack, she can get it without calling attention to herself. I would decide about legal action later, after my child was safe. I would fight the special ed referral if they try to push that through.

I have blood sugar issues, so I know that awful shaky, sweaty feeling when your blood sugar crashes. I can also tell when I am getting too hungry 'cause I get way cranky with my kids. On the plus side, I have gotten much better with a combination of limiting processed carbs and some herbal supplements.

Good luck to your family. I know if someone physically restrained my kid while refusing to treat their illness, you would probably have to physically restrain me!

[Midlodemocrat]

2. I would pull her out and go elsewhere, but first

I would make their lives a living hell. I would contact the ACLU, the ADA, and every one else I could get to listen to my story.

Reason being: If they are doing this to your daughter, they are mistreating other kids as well. I know from experience that a bad principal and a bad school environment aren't confined to one child.

Good luck.

[oregonjen]

3. Can you meet with everyone again with more info for them?

Along with the note from the doc, could you collect more info on her condition and the behavior changes that occur? With that in hand, it would give you more evidence for them to read. Is there a district nurse that can attend the meeting?
If that was not successful, I would definately take her to a different school, meeting ahead of time with the new teacher and principal with all your medical info.

[SoCalDem]

4. You just need a doctor's input on this. If a school has a note

from a doctor , they would have no reason no to comply..

Before you contact the superintendent, you should have the doctor's diagnosis and suggestions.. That will enhance your case..

You probably should ask for a different teacher too or even school..


.................................................................
Taking the teacher's perspective here..

If a teacher had all or most of the kids getting snacks from backpacks whenever they decided they needed one, they would have pandemonium in the classroom (MORE THAN THERE IS ALREADY)..

Low blood sugar is not that common in kids.. I hope your pediatrician is taking it seriously..

[mzmolly]

9. Low blood sugar is not that common in kids?

I think it's not commonly diagnosed, but a childs metabolism is far different than an adults and they do need healthy snacks through out the day. My daughters kindergarten class had a snack time and the class was only 2.5 hours.

Also, if the parent has asked a teacher to let a child get a snack for medical reasons, the teacher should accommodate or ask the parent for whatever documentation is needed. If the teacher had an issue with the situation, she should have stated so upfront rather than be an ass to the kid in the midst of a possible medical situation.

I haven't any sympathy for the teacher in this situation as the parents discussed the matter with her before hand.

More info here: http://www.drgreene.com/21_42.html

An interesting article appears in the February 1996 edition of the Journal of Pediatrics. In contrast with other research teams, William Tamborlane, MD, et al of Yale University, leaders in child nutrition, reported a more pronounced response to a glucose load in children than in adults.

It is commonly acknowledged that as blood glucose levels fall, a compensatory release of adrenaline occurs. When the blood glucose level falls below normal, the resulting situation is called hypoglycemia. Signs and symptoms that accompany this include shakiness, sweating, and altered thinking and behavior.

Tamborlane and his colleagues demonstrated that this adrenaline release occurs at higher glucose levels in children than it does in adults. In children, it occurs at a blood sugar level that would not be considered hypoglycemic. The peak of this adrenaline surge comes about 4 hours after eating. The authors reason that the problem is not sugar, per se, but highly refined sugars and carbohydrates, which enter the bloodstream quickly and produce more rapid fluctuations in blood glucose levels.

[Dora]

5. Does the school have a nurse?

I don't know if elementary schools keep nurses on staff any more. But if your school does have a health support professional, I think it's essential that they be involved with this challenging dialogue you're faced with.

If your daughter needs to snack as a result of a medical condition, then the principal and teacher may be more supportive if she were to keep her snack in the nurse's office. I grew up with a diabetic friend who kept a supply of orange juice in the nurse's office in case she needed it. Only once did a teacher refuse her a pass to visit the nurse, and that was in high school. That event ultimately resulted in my friend becoming quite symptomatic and our teacher accused her of being drunk. Christine defied our teacher and went to the nurse, and nothing more ever happened.

Your daughter has a chronic health condition that can be supported by an explanation from her pediatrician, and the school is obligated to follow the doctor's guidelines. Period. A teacher is not a medical professional and her opinion has no bearing on your daughter's medical needs. If the teacher is of the opinion that your daughter is shirking her classroom work, then she can send her to the nurse with an escort or with work to be done while having her snack, or have the snack stored in the principal's office.

[Chalco]

6. Here's what I recommend:

Request a 504 meeting. That's the federal law for non-special education problems that interfere with school functioning. At this meeting present valid medical evaluations including recommendations for your daughter during the school day. Meeting notes should be taken and document your child's medical problem and provide accommodations that the school agrees to do. Suggested accommodations would be: child will be allowed to eat a snack every x hours/minutes/whatever. I don't know all the details of your daughter's problems but have the physician provide whatever he/she thinks would be useful.

In my opinion you don't have to go the special education route (yet). If you don't get any satisfaction thru the 504 route, then proceed to the special education route. There is a medical disability label provided for under the 94-142 statute that provides a legal basis for accommodations but I don't think it's necessary in your daughter's case. Special education would be necessary if the medical problem interferes with her learning to a marked degree. I don't think you're there yet.

[mopinko]

7. yup, get a 504 plan

you kid needs a medical iep. get the paperwork for the doctor to fill out, request a plan. you will have to fight for it. but you will win as long as your doctor puts it in the plan.
this is not a special ed issue. it is the same process, but there is no reason for a situation like this not to be manageable in a regular classroom.
even with an iep, you will have to police it. you will have to start every school year by educating her teachers about what is in the plan. yes, it is in her file, yes they are supposed to read it, no, they will not.
this is federal law, and it ain't no joke. they are allowed no waffling or bs. they have to follow the plan. but you have to hold their feet to the fire. that is just the way it is.

this is a law firm that specializes in these issues. since it is federal law, it doesn't particularly matter what state you live in. lot's of info on the site. good folks.
if you can afford it, it never hurts to consult a lawyer. most education lawyers will do a consultation, and give you a lot of good info, for little or nothing. they are not usually in it for the money.
http://www.whittedclearylaw.com/

[mzmolly]

8. I'm a homeschooler so I may have a different philosophy.

I guess you have to ask yourself what you feel your options are? Is there an acceptable school near by that would understand your childs medical condition? Can she wear a waist pouch so that she can get a snack as needed? Is homeschooling an option?

I feel so sad reading about this. I don't blame you a BIT for pulling her out.

Best wishes - please keep us posted.

I wanted to add this interesting/short article on the subject:

http://www.drgreene.com/21_496.html

You know your child - follow your gut.

[Sabriel]

10. Update

We met with a lawyer who offered two interventions: draft a letter spelling out our issues and hold a mediated meeting with the school officials, or withdraw her from school. We had mentioned that we didn't feel that she was safe there, and he said, "Why would you want to send her back then?" And this is the reaction we've heard from most people (education and non-education) that we've discussed this with.

And unfortunately, it's more than this one instance. It's a clash of philosophies, overall. At the school, it's OK to grab and restrain children physically, which we don't allow at home. It's OK to micromanage their behavior there and force them to follow what we consider ridiculous restrictions. And so on, ad infinitum. We could send her back, with the lawyer's intervention and medical issues resolved, but it's not going to fix the climate of that school.


So, she's out. Now we have to figure out what to do next.

Thanks to all for your responses and concerns. Really.

(cross-posted to Education Forum)

[Chalco]

11. Sounds like a good decision.

It would still make sense to get a 504 plan at the next school. Assuming you enroll her in a school.

I know how troubling this has been for you. I went thru a distressing episode like this with my daughter and ended up withdrawing her as well. There was no way to work with the atmosphere of the school.

[Sabriel]

12. Thanks for the empathy

We're still wandering around in a daze...it's just nightmarish (as you know). Like my partner said last night, "I feel like someone died."

[Chalco]

13. Yes, it is as if someone died.

When my daughter was traumatized at age 6 we had the same reaction. She is now 13. It took us several years to recover emotionally. A dream was destroyed. It shakes your faith in humanity, you wonder who you can trust if you can't trust professional teachers/principals particularly if you are in the profession, which you are and I was as well. Take one step at a time and you will learn who you can trust. I became very vigilant, perhaps too much so, but no one messed with my kid again. She did well in the school I transferred her to and continues to do so.

I remember a great line from some movie in which this guy was shipwrecked on a deserted island for years and was finally rescued. When asked how he survived, he responded "I just kept breathing." And that is how it is. You wake up, you breathe, you keep going.

[Ms. Toad]

14. After reading your story

I am even more grateful for the school that our daughter is in.

Our daughter has chronic medical condition that (when not in remission) requires no-notice trips to the bathroom. Pre-kindergarten it was so bad we thought we'd be sending her to kindergarten in diapers.

We approached the principal, the nurse, and the counselor before the first day of school to let them know of her special needs. We have also approached individual teachers when their policies indicate there may be a problem. In high school, that means I read each classroom disciplinary plan, attend the parent open house, and explain to any teacher that limits it that one bathroom pass a semester may not work for our daughter. We also discussed the situation with our daughter and made sure she knew she was to be respectful of the teacher, but that if she did not have time to ask permission and make it to the bathroom that getting to the bathroom took priority.

In elementary school the results were unexpected, but quite wonderful. She was placed in the class that, informally, had all of the "different" kids since it was always placed near a bathroom - so she had both medically challenged kids - as well as all of the Hmong kids for whom English was not their native language. In our lily white school, that diversity was an unexpected benefit.

We pose other challenges to our school - our daughter has two moms and, like you, physical or unfair intervention is not part of our method of discipline. The school treats us equally as moms, and has never required anything more than our word to back up my wife's rights to care for or make decisions for our daughter. When we challenged a class detention that had been imposed to correct the behavior of a few (which was aggravated by a second detention imposed on those who showed up for the detention for their failure to bring the rest of their classmates to the first detention), the teacher was informed by the principal that he was not to use that method of discipline again.

The high school has some policies I have difficulty with - and we'll support our daughter if she wants to challenge them. So far, she doesn't.

If you want a formal educational setting for your daughter, I hope you can find one like ours. They aren't all bad!

If your district has magnet schools, they are sometimes more accommodating to less traditional parenting styles. In our area, we also have the option of open enrollment in adjacent districts - you might explore those as well. We also had our daughter attend Montessori for kindergarten (in addition to public school, as an after school alternative to the day care which expected her to nap for 2 hours). It was great for kindergarten - but I don't have any experience beyond that.

[MediumBrownDog]

15. I must also endorse a 504 plan

Your daughter is entitled, under Federal Law, to a "free and appropriate public education." That means that they have to accommodate any special needs that she has, and if not at that school, at another school in that district. You should NOT have to pay for private school. As another poster said, what you need is a medical IEP (Individualized Education Plan). It is not a special ed plan and does not carry that stigma.

As the child of generations of educators and a lawyer who volunteered in this field in law school, I can assure you of one thing: the teachers and principal of the school from which you withdrew your child are throwing high fives and having cocktails in glee that you didn't ever utter the words "504" or "IEP". I'm not saying you should have kept your daughter there if you felt your child was in danger -- I wouldn't have left her there one moment longer either. But you still have the right to request a 504 meeting and start that ball rolling. They HAVE TO respond to you.

It really ticks me off when folks with special needs kids get pushed around. I'm so sorry you're having to go through this.