suddenly my 16 year old daughter

[knowbody0]

decided she will do what she wants when she wants and has basically said FU to me. i am in shock, and would appreciate any advice from you all.

yesterday she and her 14 year old sister set off to the "spot" - a place for kids to gather, well staffed with a good reputation for many years. they have been going there since they were 12 and all in all it's been good for them. camp in the summer, after school programs etc........so i had a "funny feeling" yesterday and decided to drop into the center to ease that. they were not there and the woman that runs the place told me they left a long while ago stating they were going to this place further in town where to me the kids look like "emos", play pool ping pong etc. it is located on a street filled with bars and restaurants. i found them there and brought them home. silence in the car for about 15 minutes, both of them glaring at me.

when we arrived home, the 16 year old started in on me with the foulest of language, declaring she was "outta here". she tantrumed, threw things at me and declared her independence from any rules. out the door, down the road. this was 3:00 in the afternoon.

i tracked her down at 10:00 last night, she refused to get into my car, swore at me calling me all kinds of horrid names, threw popcorn all over the interior of the car. the mom at this house told her she could not stay with her and to get into my car.

when we got home her mouth got even worse, she threw stuff at me. i tried calming her, pleaded with her to just talk to me, at one point holding her wrists. she threatened to "deck" me, then kicked me in the crotch. i walked away, trembling.

this behavior has me baffled. she states she is 16 and wants emancipation, and believes she can just stay with friends and no longer wants to be my daughter. she is on the honor roll, she is beautiful and has tons of friends, always on the go, but i always know where she is and up to now has always obeyed the parameters etc.

i have never felt so weak. last night she informed me she has had sex with 9 different guys. in my heart i know she is hurting and confused, but the violence really freaks me out. she is still sleeping.

hopefully she will accept counseling. if she leaves again, i will need to get the police involved me thinks, which would mean juvenile detention. i do not want to do that.

anyone been through this?

[Dora]

1. Oh, my.

I don't have a teenage daughter, only an eighteen-month old son. I just happened to drop in and read your post and I just want to :hug: you, and your daughter.

:hug:

[knowbody0]

2. thank you Dora

[wildeyed]

3. I don't have advice from the parenting side,

but I was a really horrid teenager, probably worse than your daughter, so I have some insight from the other direction.

I would recommend being really firm with her, and to avoid getting pulled into the emotional stuff as much as possible, at least until the crisis has passed a little. When I threatened to leave, my parents said, if you leave, you don't come back. I knew they were serious, and I knew a few homeless teenagers and I knew I didn't really want to go there. I did respect that boundary because I knew it would be enforced.

I was hurting and rebellious, but I was also doing drugs and drinking. That might possibly be playing a role in your daughter's behavior.

We did counseling, both as a family and individually. I can't say it helped much at the time, but some of the communication techniques have been a great help to me later down the road.

We never fully resolved our issues until I was an adult, but we did eventually come to an uneasy cease fire.

I am sorry this is happening to you. It must be hell loving someone and watching them be so angry and self destructive. Good luck. I hope you get this resolved.

[knowbody0]

5. i also was very rebellious

and i know enough to realize this is all a part of her becoming autonomous. this event was so absolutely out of character for her that i cannot help suspecting some drug use etc. she slept all day long yesterday. i issued the following decree:
restriction from telephone, internet, and leaving the house for one week. counseling for both of us, an appointment with physician (birth control). and an additional day of restriction for any violence or destructive behavior.
she was silent all day except to ask if she could eat the canteloup in the fridge. i asked her to decide when we should have our sit down. her brother and sister are staying with friends so it is just us here for the weekend. she's listening to country music (and that's a first) and has taken several showers.
she knows now that in the future, the sheriff will pick her up and bring her home 2 times, 3rd time is automatic juvenile detention.
im anxious but prepared for our "sit down". it's time for driver's ed, that's a power tool of sorts, but beyond that she's awesome.
thanks for your perspective, i really appreciate it.

[SoCalDem]

4. Resist the temptation to freak out.. (We raised 3 boys)

so it's probably a bit different with girls, but they ALL get rebellious with a BIg "R"..

When everyone's yelling, no one's heard..

The one you have to worry about is the YOUNG sister.. she's watching how this plays out so when SHE gets a few more years behind her..

What I would do (and did) would be to make a "date" with the 16 yr old. Let her know that it's just going to be her and you, and she will have all the time she needs to tell you what;'s bugging her.. Ask her to actually write it down, so you can go over it item by item..

STAY CALM..and do not raise your voice.. Sit there are let her rant and rave if she chooses to, but never jump in with the same.. She needs to know that you will be calm.. It doesn;t look like it now, but she's asking for boundaries..

Discuss what she thinks is fair, and then be sure to explain that you have been where she is, but she has not been where you are yet, and that you are responsible for her life until she's 18, and the two of you need to have an arrangement where everyone's respected and safe.

If you think she's on drugs, that's another story, and you might have to play hardball..call the doctor for an appointment if you think that;'s it.

It' shard to sit there and listen to them cuss and swear and rant and rave, but eventually they run out of steam, and then it's your turn to calmly tell them that they have every right to feel however they feel, but as part of a family, there are responsibilities and yours just happens to be parent.

If you also tell her that she's only got 2 years to "follow your rules", it might bring it home to her.. she's going to be on her own soon, so she might as well enjoy the good life while she can (she's probably won;t leave at 18, but she thinks she will right now)

my .02

Good luck to you.. I know how sucky it can be.. My "boys" are now 27, 28 & 32.. You WILL survive it, and she will apologize to you when she grows up, but right now you are a burr under her saddle. :(

[knowbody0]

6. thanks!

i did not engage in yelling at all. i talked softly throughout the episode. you are so right about the screaming crap. see my above post for an update on our situation.
i grew up in a home filled with hysterical women and im completely allergic to screaming and yelling. (my mum cried nearly every day)
we will get through this. she's worked so hard academically as well as in sports. something's going on right now and hopefully if not with me she can sort stuff out with her counselor.
the best advice ive ever been given is to not take their rebellion personally, but to realize it's a part of growth.

[EFerrari]

13. I did, too. In retro, I see that my mom and her sisters and my

grandma had some kind of bi polar going on.

Please understand, I worship those women. Without their creativity and their courage, I'd probably not be here to post, no hyperbole here.

We get confused because teenagers go through a *terrible* time just trying to become autonomous but what you are describing is not that, imho.

Remember, the late teens and early 20s is when the mental health issues come home.

If I were you, my dear, I'd look around my family and see what is in the gene pool. Because whatEVER it is, we have the tech and the love to handle it.

:hug:

Beth

[knowbody0]

14. yes, you are right

however, she's my adopted daughter and we do not have access to her "gene pool". she and her two younger siblings were my foster kids with absolutely horrific histories. they were labeled "feral" when they were placed with me. they were ages 4,4 & 5. I was told cigarette burns, scabies, lice and malnutrition. when they arrived, she literally jumped out of the van, looked me square in the eye and said "hi, mom. Do you smoke?" that's the moment she jumped into my heart. so brave facing the unknown. and that is how she has faced the challenges in her life. head on, shoulders back, chin up.

she's back to seeing her counselor twice a week for now. we've been on long walks and doing lots of one on one things together and IMO she realizes that HER choices now will determine HER future.

today she is polite, co operative and respectful. she's singing country music and drawing these incredible dragon flies. she's chosen classes for the fall and looking ahead. LOVE is the answer, and living with the consequences of your actions is the teacher.

thanks for responding sfexpat 2000, her waters run deep and mysterious.

[EFerrari]

15. What an amazing woman you are.

:loveya:

[lostnfound]

7. I'm so sorry. A few ideas

This must be so heartbreaking.

I'm grasping at straws but..a few ideas:

Maybe whether she accepts counseling or not, you might consider a session or two yourself (with a relationship counsellor?) to get some ideas from a professional about what to do?

Also I read a book called "Hold onto Your Kids" which said that in many ways you should treat your relationship with your kids as something to be jealously guarded against peer relationships. This behavior sounds like a classic example out of that book, much of it happening younger, whereby kids have so thoroughly transferred their attachments over away from the parents over onto the peers that the parents not only lose influence but are seen as threats to the relationship with the peers...and where parents are constantly seen in an unfavorable light because it relieves the child's mixed feelings and torn loyalties.

All in much the same way as a person who is wrapped up in an illicit affair may feel resentment toward the spouse who 1) has none of the qualities of the lover and 2) interferes with the affair.

The solution, according to the book, is to focus on the relationship itself as a relationship and in a sense to 'seduce' your children back, by finding activities that you enjoy together, keeping them too busy for socializing with peers, being extra kind and caring, removing the pressure you might otherwise put on them, reminding them of your connection in gentle ways that are not threatening or annoying, etc.

The first goal is to restore the parent-child relationship as the primary, orienting relationship in their life.

If she resists counseling,emphasize to her that YOU want to find out how to be a better parent for her and that your relationship with her is so important to both of you.. Bribe her if necessary, not with money nor with "time out with friends", but with some experience you and she can do together like a small shopping spree or a long weekend trip to a national park...

Deep down, your daughter may even find it reassuring to come back to you after the confusing pain of having 9 sex partners at a young age.


The violence makes me wonder about drugs..but I'd tread carefully not to let that question drive a new wedge in your relationship.

Is it possible for you to plan a long vacation together away from others, someplace that's inherently peaceful yet fun?

[knowbody0]

8. wise words thank you

walked two hours on the beach together. lots of tears and hugs. says she wanted to shock and hurt me about the 9 guys but that she has had sex. we have counseling and doctor appointments this week and have reconciled quite a few issues on our own. she wants to drive and go to college so i have that leverage. her brother and sister are wide eyed and curious around her. we all love her so much. tonight we played scrabble and SHE won!
i really appreaciate your advice, the best of which is the kindness and caring.

[lostnfound]

9. That is so perfect.

Scrabble & beach walking. I'm SOOO happy to hear that things are much better. I guess mothers have to really hang in there during the teen years when girls so often seem to turn against you. I remember a few moments of my own towards my mom.

I'm just thrilled to hear this. Congratulations on working through it and holding on to both your sanity and your daughter.

On a lighter note, a friend of mine used to say that when the teenage years hit, just pretend that your daughter has become your "crazy Aunt Jane" who is just come to visit and you have to put up with her for a little while but the craziness won't last..

[knowbody0]

10. crazy Aunt Jane

way kool! thanks.

my other trick is to remember her at age 6.

[lostnfound]

11. Like true love and true friends

reminds people -- and remembers -- of who they are at their best, even when they are at their worst.

[SoCalDem]

12. A social scientist once said the reason little kids are so darned cute

and their childhoods so long, is that when they reach the teen years, we can remember all the time and effort we have invested in them, and how yummy-cute they were...otherwise we might actually murder them :evilgrin:

[Tab]

21. Actually kids are cute so you don't murder them early on.

Same goes for puppies.

[EFerrari]

16. 2 thoughts, fwiw

1) What are the triggers? (A question we should ask ourselves about anyone, including ourselves,lol)

Can you "map" them"? Because then you're on your way to predicting.

1a) The violence should freak you out. That's right. Where are you on thinking about what precedes it? And :hug: and :hug:

I had to deal with violence for more than several years before I managed to get it handled medically. Be safe as you possibly can. I'm so sorry this is happening.

2) Getting the police involved turns her into meat. God knows I have but, I always regretted it. There was always more of a down side finally than the occasions where I figured out how to avoid that AND keep us all safe. On the other hand, keeping everyone physically safe is the first step. :(

Hope to hear what comes of the counseling idea. Are you shopping for them or going in cold with her?

:hug:

[knowbody0]

17. talking about this really helps me. thanks

typically, I get a reaction when she is told "NO" when asking if she can go somewhere I do not approve. I have learned to not engage in verbal combat. My rule: Do not yell at me, when you can be respectful, I will listen with an open mind to your opinions.
the kids have been in counseling off and on from the beginning with the same woman.last week we went together and talked about her kicking me. the thing is, the violence in her past is an abstract memory to her, she knows it happened, but cannot recall enough to articulate it. In looking back at the incident, she was screaming and throwing things, and I wanted to calm her. I walked into her space and reached out and she may have felt threatened.
the rage IMO is based in fear based in pain. she needs to acquire the tools to control it, but also needs to validate that pain.
as far as the police, I would contact them if she were to run away again. I had not even thought of the what ifs re the violence.
she's quiet after counseling and takes a nap. that seems good.

[EFerrari]

18. So let's talk. I don't know how much help I can be but

I've had to get a little creative myself.

I really do understand, "the violence in her past is an abstract memory".

Doug is exactly like that.

Imvho, my best tool is to keep backing up and backing up until I find the earliest moment that set the triggers into motion.

Imvho2, or really, in my experience, every single violent episode in my home was a consequence of Doug being triggered into an extremely fearful or paranoid place. That was good information for me to have.

:hug:

[Sticky]

19. Brings back memories

I've raised 5 teenagers and only had one go to the "dark side". She was the sensitive one, the child who kept everything inside and never wanted to rock the boat. Throughout her life I tried everything to get her to communicate with me but she was always aloof. She has a twin sister who is loud and boisterous and D was her polar opposite. I was shocked the first time she talked back to me and things went from bad to worse in a very short time.

She started drinking, doing drugs and skipping school (managed to keep honour roll status but don't ask me how.) Her life long friends dropped her and she started hanging with drop-outs and older adults, got a tattoo, a belly ring and changed her appearance completely.
In desperation I read every book I could find, asked other parents for advice and took a workshop on "Tough Love"

I read a book called "Yes, Your Teenager Is Crazy" and it helped me to feel less guilty but didn't give any answers or guidance on what to do to end the nightmare.

I didn't know if I would survive the stress and worry, and the anger I felt was something completely new for me. My mom gave me the wisest words when she said, "This too shall pass". She was right, it did. My daughter starts University on Tuesday and has included me in every step of the process. She's back and our relationship is better than ever.

It's temporary so have faith. This too shall pass! :hi:

[knowbody0]

20. thanks, very inspirational.

Things are smooth now. She's been baking up a storm--pies, cakes, Cinnamon rolls, bread. It's a really ac/dc kinda thing. the country music is a hoot - Hearbreak and infidelity!

One day at a time. the counseling is going well, and she seemed very relieved with the test results for STD's/pregnancy. She's cheerful and easy to be with again.

What a relief for you to have your daughter off to University and close to you again. My girl says I am like the Hawk, always watching over her even when she's far away from me. ???

[cally]

22. Just hang in there

I've been through some very tough times with my eldest and my youngest is starting up. I've posted various desperation threads. What I have learned through all of it is you just have to hang in there. You will constantly question what you did to make her that way but that's the wrong question. Ask yourself to hang tough, remember all the positives and the lessons you have taught, and hope that's it's enough. Right now, I'm amazed at how much my eldest echoes me. No, I'm not talking about politics or other stuff. She just is nice to people which we once despaired that she would never learn. My rebellious child who fought against all authority now will walk into a bank or a school and make friends and get the bureaucracy done with minimal fuss. I've watched her just win her battles without making enemies where I once doubted that she could. I keep focusing on the core values and I know both my daughters are there. Unfortunately, probably fortunately,
I taught my daughters to question authority and I'm the authority.

[knowbody0]

23. Thank you cally

the last line is the best. Not wanting to raise sheep, we do indeed undermine ourselves, but it is absolutely necessary today more than ever!