Does anyone here have a kid who is learning disabled?

[wildeyed]

I am beginning to wonder if my younger has some mild delays. At 4 1/2, he is bright and curious in all ways, except he *never* colors, draws or plays with block and puzzles.

I have always found it odd that he shys away from such basic childhood toys, but assumed it was because he preferred other things. But reading a post on another website got me wondering. A woman posted that her LD son was the same, and it wasn't that he didn't *want* to color or play with blocks it was that he *couldn't*.

I have piles of LD, both diagnosed and undiagnosed, in my family tree. My sis is dyslexic and has auditory processing issues. I was not diagnosed, but in 3rd grade, could read on a Jr. High level, but didn't know left from right and couldn't memorize my math facts.

I understand that LD can be genetic. If it is affecting my son, I would like to address it early.

In addition, he has been stuttering off and on for the past year. Could that be related?

[mzteris]

1. Learning Differenced

- and that's okay - as long as it's recognized and accommodated. It probably also means he has some AMAZING strengths, too!!

The sooner addressed, the better. You have to be a really good detective, observer, and advocate. You are NOT crazy. You are NOT a "pushy mom". You KNOW your kid better than ANYONE. Period. Do NOT let some "expert" pooh-pooh your concerns. If you have them, there's a reason.

Here are some links for you to get you started:

http://www.neurolearning.com/eides.htm

http://allkindsofminds.org/

http://www.ldonline.org/

http://www.helpguide.org/mental/learning_disabilities.htm


whew - that should get you started.


The Eides have a good book out and Dr. Mel Levine has several on the topic. If I remember correctly they are geared more towards older kids, but I think you can still glean a lot of good information. You might want to target "preschool" info.


The lack of coloring/block thing - well - could be indicative of some type of dysgraphia - whether graphomotor or visual issues. (Visual - not meaning "seeing" - you can have 20/20 vision and still have "vision problems".

Stuttering? There is a phase boy children go through - it's usually a bit earlier age wise - but I'm sure there's no hard and fast rule to that. How much, how often, how long. Is there a pattern? Is it *all* the time or just some times. How severe is it? It can also be a sign of stress or auditory processing disorder, maybe.

Oh yeah, the "math fact" thing - dyscalculia:

http://www.dyscalculia.org/
http://www.ldonline.org/indepth/math

[wildeyed]

2. Ah, learning differenced.

You are right, that sounds much better.

And from what I have read, it seems like it often is only a difference.

I read the other day that some professionals now think that dyslexia is related to a high spatial intelligence. Dyslexics can see the world so easily in from different points of view, to them a B is still a B, even if you are looking at it, or writing it, from the back side.

And many high IQ kids are diagnosed as ADHD, but when they are appropriately challenged in school, the symptoms mysteriously disappear.

I am going to request a screening. People keep telling my that he doesn't color because he is a boy and it is just a boy thing. But their boys all color or draw every now and then. Mine refuses, and when I am firm about it, it seems that he really can't hold the crayon and exert pressure at the same time.

Thanks for the links mzteris, I will look them over.

[mzteris]

3. "the disability" part comes in

because the world (& unfortunately, most schools) don't recognize the differences.

They want slot A to always fit in slot B just so - and no other way.

Remember that Harry Chapin song? (Lyrics below)

If he's having trouble actually holding the crayon, he's probably going to need to PT type activities. And while that will HELP, it probably won't "solve the problem". Oh - and when he says his hand/wrist/arm/shoulder/ or back HURTS - it DOES.

I'd suggest also getting him a typing program ASAP - one of those kid friendly ones that helps him learn where the keys are. Of course, if he's also having visual difficulties - once it goes to "words/phrases/sentences" he may have difficulty with that, too.

The other big "problem" is that these things usually come in groups and/or layers. You "fix" one part of the problem, but the other aspect is still there - (like "fixing" the physical challenges of writing and finding out there's also visual issues. Or other neurological wiring issues. . . )

Like I said, you have to be a really good detective. :)




Flowers Are Red

The little boy went first day of school
He got some crayons and started to draw
He put colors all over the paper
For colors was what he saw
And the teacher said.. What you doin' young man
I'm paintin' flowers he said
She said... It's not the time for art young man
And anyway flowers are green and red
There's a time for everything young man
And a way it should be done
You've got to show concern for everyone else
For you're not the only one

And she said...
Flowers are red young man
Green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than the way they always have been seen

But the little boy said...
There are so many colors in the rainbow
So many colors in the morning sun
So many colors in the flower and I see every one

Well the teacher said.. You're sassy
There's ways that things should be
And you'll paint flowers the way they are
So repeat after me.....

And she said...
Flowers are red young man
Green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than the way they always have been seen

But the little boy said...
There are so many colors in the rainbow
So many colors in the morning sun
So many colors in the flower and I see every one

The teacher put him in a corner
She said.. It's for your own good..
And you won't come out 'til you get it right
And all responding like you should
Well finally he got lonely
Frightened thoughts filled his head
And he went up to the teacher
And this is what he said.. and he said

Flowers are red, green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than the way they always have been seen

Time went by like it always does
And they moved to another town
And the little boy went to another school
And this is what he found
The teacher there was smilin'
She said...Painting should be fun
And there are so many colors in a flower
So let's use every one

But that little boy painted flowers
In neat rows of green and red
And when the teacher asked him why
This is what he said.. and he said

Flowers are red, green leaves are green
There's no need to see flowers any other way
Than the way they always have been seen.

[wildeyed]

4. I fear for this one in traditional school, I really do.

On any given day, my son wants to know if we can fly a kite to outer space today. Or if, when you are invisible, do you still exist. Or will pouring coconut milk on a plant make it grow faster than a plant that doesn't get coconut milk. Or can he drive the car to his friend Eric's house 'cause there are only three turns and 11 straights (which is true) between our house and his, so it isn't very far, and he can do it, right? Or look mommy, when I pour the brown stuff into the yellow stuff it bubbles up tall! :scared:

I put him in a sports skills class and he tried to play t-ball by propping the bat against the wall and throwing the ball at it. Nearly gave the coach an aneurysm 'cause he wouldn't budge from doing it that way.

He is a divergent thinker, has no intuitive desire to please authority figures and not a compliant bone in his body, so I doubt his bright ideas will be rewarding in a traditional learning situation. I would hate for someone to make him feel bad about being so idiosyncratic, 'cause when he becomes an adult I think it will be a good thing. We need more creative thinkers, and people who can do that are rewarded in the marketplace, plus he is just damn funny. I would hate for him to grow up to only see one color :(

Oh well, I am on his side and I will make sure his teachers are aware of his strengths. Maybe it will be fine. Our local elementary is doing a stellar job dealing with his older sister, far better than I would have expected under the circumstance, so maybe they will exceed my expectations with DS, too :) And, if need be, homeschool is always an option for us, although not my first choice.

[mzteris]

5. if it's a good school - and

everyone's aware of the differences and willing to work with him/you - then no prob.

You might want to start looking around, though, to see if a school in the area might be better suited. For instance, is there a Montessori? Or Waldorf school, etc?

As for homeschooling - it can be wonderful. For him and you. There is a hs group here on DU if you're looking for more info. Is there a reason hs'ing isn't your "first choice"? (I only ask because there are a LOT of misconceptions about hs'ing.)

My son started back to public school this week for the first time since 2nd/3rd grade (Dec 2001). :cry: He went to 8th because they said he was too young for highschool. bleh. He took one look at the curriculum and said, "But I've already DONE all of this!" So I told him it would be a year to relearn how to "do school".

He told me his first day that he was going as an anthropologist - to study "middle school culture" and find out what makes them tick. :rofl:


He's going because he has to, not because he really wants to. Though, of course, he always wants to SUCCEED at everything so he will try his very best. (The only reason he went back is because my husband and I separated and I need to find a job. )


For the kid who LOVES LEARNING and loves learning EVERYTHING - school *can* be very - er - limiting.

[wildeyed]

11. There is a public Montessori magnet in my district.

Very popular, difficult to get into, but I hear excellent things about it from friends who children attend. There is a G/T charter school that DD is wait listed at. Dunno if DS will qualify though, he needs IQ testing first and because of his non-compliant nature and young age, I will wait as long as possible to have that done.

HS'ing isn't my first choice because I am afraid it would be too exhausting and I would like to go back to paying work part-time next year. I know many HS'ing families who kids are doing great, and I think it is a great option for many families. I am open to it as an option, just not convinced that it is right for us.

Anthropologist, lol! If he figures out what makes middle schoolers tick, he should write a book, I think many people would like to know ;)

My aunt HS her four kids. She tried to send them back to regular school, but they wouldn't stay. I think they are all at home now, except the 16 year old who takes community college courses, but as a high schooler. I guess he will go away to college next year? I dunno, but the kids are all brilliant and really sweet, so I guess it is working for them :)

[phylny]

6. As a speech-language pathologist, and a proponent of good quality public schools,

I would suggest calling your local school district tomorrow, asking for a child study meeting, and telling them you want to discuss his learning style with a speech-language pathologist, kindergarten teacher, and occupational therapist present at the meeting if possible. They may suggest testing, which is free to you, or they may give you some strategies to use at home to help him.

I work(ed) with lots of kids who have the types of behaviors your son does, and there are a LOT of things that can be done to assist kids. He can still retain his love of learning facts and inquisitive mind, and be able to color and speak without dysfluency.

Regarding not being compliant, there's good and bad when it comes to being noncompliant. It's great that he's such a great thinker and that he's self-motivated, but in any educational setting (even homeschooling) a child needs some compliance in order to learn. Imagine the classroom with 20 noncompliant kids, or the homeschool with one or two :)

Someone who is near and dear to my heart has a son who she tried homeschooling - noncompliant, doesn't like to write, and they didn't make much progress during the course of a year. It strained their relationship, and she enrolled him in their public school. Lo and behold, he has a learning disability and occupational therapy issues. He's getting help in school now, and is flourishing.

BTW, check to see if when your son is dysfluent (stuttering), he's tired, frustrated, or if it just comes and goes for no reason. Also look for concurrent behaviors - does he stamp his foot, blink his eyes, or have any other physical signs that he's aware of his dysfluency and trying to stop it?

Good luck and enjoy him :)

[wildeyed]

10. My son is still in preschool, will start K next year.

Can I request the child study now, even though he is still four?

I agree that compliance, to a reasonable extent, is important, and I do require it. My son needs consistent boundaries to flourish. Any good K teacher will know what to do, but even so, dealing with him can be exhausting. It's like he is the ocean and I am the rock. The rock seems stronger, but ocean always wins eventually ;)

As far as learning, he does fine, other than the writing. I think he can read a little already and he understands his sister's 1st grade math. Its not really the learning part, its the teaching. If I actively try to teach him something, even something he is interested in, he finds a way to argue. He says, oh, I know that already or it's boring yadda yadda. He likes to do stuff hands on. Now it I want him to learn something, I just leave an appropriate object lying around the house, and eventually, he will "explore" it until he has mastered it.

Come to think of it, Montessori wouldn't be a bad idea.

I like public school, too. I like the public school my daughter attends and I think her K/1st teacher is a complete goddess and rock star combined. So I am in no way anti-school or teacher. The homeschooling is just a back up for me if I feel DS is not flourishing in public school. I was deeply unhappy in traditional school as a child and I vowed that I would never put my own kids through that. Now if my parents had been actively involved with my education from the start, my school situation might have been better. So hopefully, as long as I stay involved in my kids schooling, things will stay on track.

But on the other hand, both my kids are unique learners in different ways, so coming to some kind of impasse with the school system is not unimaginable. My 1st grade daughter's learning is so accelerated, with proper instruction, she could be done with elementary curriculum by the end of next year. I dunno what we will do with her then. I am not chuffed about sending a 3rd grader to middle school, that's for sure. :crazy: I may end up HS'ing her for a few years just to get her big enough to go middle school. I will jump off that bridge when I get to it.

The stuttering was so bad last year for a bit, it made me cringe. He was really struggling to get out words. The stutter disappeared over the summer, but is back now in a milder form.

[phylny]

12. Yes, you can ask for a child study.

Early Intervention is responsible for kids birth - 3 years old, and the local school district is responsible for preschool children 3-5, and then of course 5-21.

Regarding stuttering, a lot of kids at age 3 go through a period of stuttering (my oldest girl did). I would definitely bring it up at your child study meeting. In the meantime, slow down your rate of speech, and let him finish his statements without finishing them for him (which I'm sure you're doing anyway.)

It couldn't hurt to ask for a child study meeting. Sounds like you have smart kids. Enjoy :)

[wildeyed]

13. Great advice

I am going to ask DS's preschool teacher, who is a semi-retired ex-public school teacher, what her opinion is. Then I will either pursue testing through the school district or my pediatrician, depending on what insurance will cover.

Thanks! It is good to know there are options out there.

[phylny]

7. May I suggest that the "disability" part comes in because the only way

a child can have an IEP to help them is if they are categorized as having a disability?

In my years in schools, private and public, I have known very few teachers who were so rigid as to not have compassion for the differing ways kids learn. I know that my experience may be different than others', but I hate to see all teachers categorized as being inflexible :)

[mzteris]

8. I never meant to suggest that -

all teachers are NOT inflexible. Unfortunately, a LOT of "school systems" ARE. :(

I could tell you tales, if you are interested. Personal ones.

[phylny]

9. I believe you.

I just wanted to make a point, and I'm glad to see you weren't painting all with one brush :)