Crisis

[rbnyc]

My son just turned 3 and has a number of growing behavior problems.

First, he has just started pre-school and refuses to use the potty at school. He uses the potty at home. He used the potty at full-time daycare all summer. He will even get out of the pool at Grandma's house and use the potty instead of peeing in the pool--not even all adults do that. But he refuses to use the potty at school and he seems afraid of some restaurant bathrooms but not others.

He will not be able to continue in pre-school (where I work which costs $350 a month for me with my discount) if he doesn't start using the bathroom and he will have to go back to daycare ($1200/month.) We just CAN'T HAVE IT!!! We can hardly afford to live as it is.

He also swears up a storm when he is mad, and hits and bites. Yesterday on the train home he asked me for a cupcake. He knew I had one in my purse leftover from his birthday celebration at lunch at school. I asked him if he would try to use the potty at school tomorrow. He said no. I said, "well, then you can't have a cupcake." He started screaming, "Are you fucking me!?" He started hitting me, throwing himself on me and biting me, trying to get in my purse. I just kept saying, "No swearing. No hitting. No biting. Sit in your seat, please," while trying to defend myself. This went on for about half an hour. It was so hard for me not to use force or say terrible things. Finally I did say that if he didn't stop I would cancel his birthday party on Saturday and tell Grandma not to come from Florida. I told him why should all his friends and family come to see a boy who hits and bites and swears. He started screaming that he wanted his birthday party. Then he looked out the window and started crying, "I want my birthday. I want my cupcake." I told him he could have his cupcake and his birthday party if he would promise to try to use the bathroom at school. He said ok. I made him look at me and repeated the deal. He agreed. I gave him the cupcake and told him we could have the party. He was happy.

This morning I reminded him that he agreed to use the bathroom at school. He said no. Iasked him if he lied to me just to get a cupcake. He said yes.

The whole train ride he yelled the word fuckin over and over. Nothing I tried worked. Today at school he refused to use the bathroom and held it until he couldn't hold it any more.

He also hit a boy on the head with a toy who was just trying to play with him and ran up to a girl and pushed her down for no reason.

I feel like the worst parent in the world. And I'm totally screwed if he gets thrown out of school.

Plus I am so sleep deprived (various reasons) that I'm mentally ill. The other day I was actually trying to figure out if my husband would be able to take care of him by himself if I killed myself.

I am not planning to kill myself. I have a history of depression and I take those thoughts very seriously. I have support in place for that. I just mention it because that is a big part of why I feel we are at a true crisis point.

How do I help my son to stop hitting, biting, pushing, swearing and holding his pee?!!

I am totally out of ideas!

[IndianaJones]

1. I will address the potty part. My daughter was afraid of toilets in...

restaraunts and other public facilities. It turns out she was scared of the tankless toilets due to the noise they make when flushed.

[rbnyc]

2. How did she get over it?

Thanks.

[IndianaJones]

3. Its funny. She is still young enough (5) that my wife still goes in with her...

She has not mentioned anything about the toilets at school, but I assume she uses them. It was bad enough that she would scream when confronted with sitting on one for a while, around the age of your child. We have another daughter that is a little older, and she saw her use it with no problem, and it improved from there.

[trotsky]

26. Our son (now 8) is still that way.

He had a lot of difficulty at school because all the urinals are on an automatic flush cycle. So every trip to the bathroom was filled with anxiety, wondering when that super-loud flushing noise was going to happen. We worked around that by talking with the school and finding that he could go use the "normal" bathroom in the nurse's office.

If we are in a restaurant or public place that has the tankless auto-flush toilets, he insists on taking one of us along to help the toilet not flush until he gets done, pulls his pants up, and covers his ears.

[LaraMN]

4. Ohhh... three can be a heinous age!

He's obviously acting out in a big way. My kids sometimes had issues at that stage (JackMN does, at present,) due in part to their burgeoning need for independence, and the fears that come along with new freedom and the experience of growing up. It's very hard to deal with, emotionally.

Is he possibly stressed out by anything else? My boys have always been FAR more prone to aggressive behavior when they're tired or emotionally strained.

When they're being massive turds, we stick them in time out even if they have to go back in after five minutes; eventually they learn they have to behave or they'll spend a WHOLE lot of time there.

It's rough. There are no cure-alls or easy answers. Hang in there, sweetie!

[rbnyc]

9. Other stresses:

1. Starting new school, long commute from home to school and back. (Though he loves the train and often does behave well on the train--afraid of train potty though.)
2. Recent death of Pet (He seemed to understand it and handle it very well.)
3. (Big one.) Mental breakdown of father. Daddy is having a major mental health crisis. He can be the most wonderful, patient man in the world and then suddenly an empty soda can left in the living room or a plate in the sink without all the food scraped off and he will have a gigantic temper tantrum--NOT the behavior we need to model for Garrison.

So both Mommy and Daddy are going through a hard time. Mommy has few outward signs, but that doesn't mean he can't tell something is making Mommy sad and worried. Daddy goes back and forth between being fun, patient, and affectionate, and being a lunatic tyrant.

Daddy is not involved in the morning routine, or the school routine and is away for dinner 2-4 night per week.

[laylah]

5. First off

you are NOT a bad mom so stop THAT stuff :hug:!

My oldest had the same problem at a pre-school we put her in when she was about that age. Come to find out, it was a co-ed john and she was expected to potty in front of others. She was having no part of it. When I found out, I addressed it with the head teacher, only to be told my daughter would have to learn to deal with it. Needless to say, I yanked her (my daughter) immediately out of that school.

As for the swearing, fussing, etc., the more attention you give it, the more he will do it. Again, my older one had tantrums to no end during that period. We took her to a therapist and once we started to not "feed" (acknowledge) the behavior, it subsided. Just a thought. Another method might be to hold him tight on your lap as he is doing his antics, hugging him close and trying to calm him? My kids are grown now so I can only offer suggestions from my past.

Again, please stop beating yourself up...the world does it enough for each and every one of us. on a daily basis. Good luck.

[rbnyc]

10. I feel much more normal..

...after reading your post. It feels so crazy now because the whole Early Childhood staff here is scrutizing the problem. And since I'm a senior exec here they all are giving it there utmost so I feel quite under the magnifying glass.

Also, the tantrums on the train are so public and people make comments. People say how their kids would never get away with such and such, implying I should spank him, etc.

I guess I'm judging myself first to beat everyone else to it.

Bottom line is, I have to figure out how to do what is best for my son.

Besides the fact that the program here is affordable, I think it's good.

I'm going to try holding him tight next time he freaks out.

So next time he swears, you think I should just not say anything at all?

[IndianaJones]

6. I just read the rest of your post. Let me assure you that none of what you are seeing...

is new or your fault. I have three kids and have seen similar. Lets look at the potty thing first. Can you give me more info on the places he will go and the places he seems afraid?

[rbnyc]

11. The best I can figure...

...is that the places he seems afraid have a more institutional look, and the places he is comfortable are more homey. But he also doesn't like shut doors.

The bathroom at school has stalls but no doors on the stalls. He loves to go in there and wash his hands. (He loves to wash his hands.) But he won't go near the toilet.

He just recently went from sit-down peeing to peeing standing up and he doesn't use the kiddy potty at home anymore. He uses the regular toilet. The toilets at school are low and small, made for pre-schoolers.

Thanks So Much!

[IndianaJones]

14. at places where he doesn't like to use the toilet...

does he go in with an adult? Does your husband take him to the bathroom?

[rbnyc]

24. We have tried every way...

...me taking him, daddy taking him, garnma taking him, uncle Gil taking him, grown-up inside, grown-up outside, door open, door closed. We're making some progress. He used to just scream. Now we can usually get him to come in and look at the toilet, and sometimes flush it. He will usually wash his hands. He loves to wash his hands.

[wildeyed]

15. Can you try bringing the little potty to school and leaving it there?

My daughter would only use the little potty for awhile, so I ended up hauling it back and forth from preschool. Then she would use a strange potty, but only with her own potty seat. So I got to haul a potty seat around in my purse for several months. Then, finally, she would use the big potty pretty much anywhere.

Also, do you think he is old enough for a star chart? My daughter had a hard time staying in her bed at night, so for awhile we used a star chart. Every night she stayed put, she got a star. 10 stars earned a toy. I try to avoid bribery when possible, but this worked, and I really was going to lose my mind if the problem didn't get resolved.

Good luck, kids can be mysterious and frustrating. I know mine have nearly driven me 'round the bend many times. :hug:

[SouthoftheBorderPaul]

7. I'm not a parent, so take this with a heaping lump of salt.

But is there any way you can take your son to the school when class (or whatever they call it at that age) is not in session? Maybe in a less stimulating environment, and when you can accompany him, he'd be less averse to the idea.

[rbnyc]

12. Yes. good idea.

I can easilly do that. I work here and have 24 access.

Thanks.

[SarahB]

8. No words other than hugs.

2 out of 3 of my boys were pee trained by 3, but continued to poop their pants for another year after that! I thought I'd go mad myself. They are now 12 and 6, but at the time, it was awful. Just hugs, sweetie. :hug:

[rbnyc]

13. Thanks.

It is enough to drive you right up a tree, isn't it?

[wildeyed]

16. This book helped me immensely with my strong-willed son.

Setting Limits with Your Strong-Willed Child : Eliminating Conflict by Establishing Clear, Firm, and Respectful Boundaries http://www.amazon.com/Setting-Limits-Your-Strong-Willed-Child/dp/0761521364/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8909081-8722513?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189804847&sr=1-1

I purchased the book when my son was the same age as yours. Three can be a heinous age, much worse that the famous terrible twos, IMO. My copy is highlighted and annotated. The methods do not work overnight, but I have had excellent success with them longterm. My son is also strong-willed and loves to get a rise out of authority figures.

The other thing you might try is consulting with his pediatrician. There are many physical and mental causes that can contribute to difficult behavior. It would be best to rule those out before you are decide on a plan of action.

[Ellen Forradalom]

17. We stumbled through similar pottying problems

with our son. And, yes, I did nearly go mad quite often myself. I don't really have a solid recommendation unfortunately because I can't really pinpoint one thing that "worked."

[nini]

18. the problem is you allowed him to dictate what was going to happen

The decision about the party and cupcake should have been made AFTER he proved he would do what you asked of him.. not as a pre-condition.

Obviously people coming out of town for his party isn't something you can just cancel so you need to use an alternative from of consequence to his actions in this case - but the cupcake should not have been given to him simply because he wanted it and he said he would do something but only after he followed up and did what you asked of him.


As far as the bathroom thing.. sounds like something scares him makes him uncomfortable in that environment which will take more talking to him etc. to get to the core of the problem. I don't think the bathroom issue can be used as leverage at this point until you get to the heart of why he resists using the bathroom at school.

However, the hitting and swearing though is something you can absolutely put your foot down to. If he doesn't stop that give him some consequence and stick to it. Do not let him promise to not do it again without him experiencing whatever consequence you create for that behavior.

Good luck - you are fighting the battles of wills with him and if you let him win the teenage years will make this time seem like a picnic. You are not a bad mom, you are just confronted something new in the parenting experience - you will have to change your tactics and he tests his out on you.

Hang in there!

[Fran Kubelik]

19. Very very well said.

I couldn't agree more, with everything you said.

Good luck, rbnyc. It seems overwhelming, but you can do it. :hug:

[phylny]

20. A few thoughts.

This first part is not meant to be nasty or critical, so I apologize in advance if I sound that way. I recalled your thread on swearing, with you mentioning that you and your husband did use swear words. If you and your husband, or others around your son, use profanity, he'll use it. You won't be able to explain to your child that you can use those words, but he can't. If they're part of his vocabulary now, then you have to clean up your vocab before he cleans up his.

The cupcake - I concur with others on this thread that no three-year-old kid is going to be able to make a deal to get what he wants RIGHT NOW (cupcake) and then stick to it. I mean, he got what he wanted, so why should he pee in the school potty?

Are you using pull-ups on him? Is he holding his pee the entire day? This is what I would do. First, have the school agree to give you a period of time to work on this. Send him to school in underwear and shorts/pants. No pull-ups. If he pees his pants, then he gets to help take the wet clothes off, clean up, and put clean clothes on. If it becomes inconvenient for him, and he misses out on play time, he may try the toilet in school. The other thing would be to set up an incentive for him. "See that new train on top of the fridge? You may have it when you pee in the toilet at school." End of discussion. He does not get to have it unless he pees in the toilet. If he bugs the heck out of you that he wants it, tell him once, "If you keep whining about the train, you will not get it at all." And stick to your guns.

Regarding tantrums and aggression, these things happen and the preschool staff should be able to work WITH you to come up with behavior plans and solutions. If you see an continuing pattern with this part of his behavior, remember that you can always contact your local school district and discuss how this behavior is negatively impacting your son's schooling and development. I am not at all suggesting that there is something "wrong" with your son, it's just a resource for you to use if you need it.

Finally, don't be afraid to seek out counseling. We did for one of our children (WE went to counseling, not the child) to learn how to deal with a very hot temper of a very small 3 year old. It was helpful and beneficial.

[lostnfound]

21. Wow. Hugs.

First, don't feel like the worst parent. We have all had our moments.

Second: I think that it is just too much pressure to put on a just-turned-3, and that such pressure is counterproductive. It's too bad you don't have a way to buy yourself some time. Taking the pressure off, lettng him know how much you love him no matter what is going to work faster and more assuredly than threats.

Bribes, on the other hand, like the incentive that phylny suggested, are a very good idea. But don't overkill. He needs plenty of love right now because you don't want him to think that he is a failure or not loveable or anything else.

My friend's son just turned 3 and is going through a similar thing, as did mine. Remind yourself that it will probably be solved in just a couple of months. They change fast at this age. When he is acting angry at you, or when you are most frustrated, that is the time to pull him close and love him with all your might. This is HIS crisis as much as it is yours, in his own little mind, and if you help him through it with love and attention you will build and strengthen your relationship in ways that will long outlive the potty training age.

If the school is giving you or him any flack over the problem, talk to the top person there and ask for their advice, patience, understanding. Tell them you are going to try some new approaches, would like their help, and make sure they will at least give it a month to see if there is improvement. Hopefully if you treat them like professional caregivers they will understand that there is a little regression going on.

Good luck.

[rbnyc]

23. Fortunately I'm a senior executive at the facility...

...where my son goes to school, so he is getting remarkable attention. There is a rule that no children may attend who aren't potty trained, but they believe he is potty trained so they are not making an exit plan for him. Since he goes at home and at grandma's and since he went at his previous daycare (the three potties he learned on) they feel it is a comfort issue and are working with him.

He has some other issues--not responding to name, spacing out, excessively lining up toys, extreme reactions to being interrupted, difficulty with transitions, extreme reactions to disruption of routine, pattern walking, that have led us to decide to have him evaluated by a specialist.

I have noticed red flags for autism since he was a baby, but dismissed it because he has good language skills, motor skills, and is social and affectionate. I had thought that autistic children could not be affectionate or articulate, but it turns out that the autism spectrum is very broad and it's worth looking into.

We'll see.

Thanks.

[rbnyc]

22. Thanks everyone.

His teachers have observed a number of behaviors that they believe may indicate a disorder somewhere on the autism spectrum, and/or sensory integration. He is going to be evaluated by a specialist. The main thing is that (other than the swearing) his behaviors relate to his dependence on routines and patterns and his need to feel very comfortable in the bathroom.

I agree about the cupcake thing. It's just that sometimes I feel backed up against a wall and like I have few options.

Anyway, we're taking it one step at a time.

Thanks again.

[phylny]

25. Good luck, and

check your inbox.

:)

[blondie58]

27. what a dilemma- kids can be so trying

I would strongly recommend that you check out www.loveandlogic.com for their books and cds. They are available on ebay, also. They also travel the country and have seminars on their techniques.

I just discovered them myself and wish that I would have had them 20 years ago, when my kids were young. My youngest is 16 now and we are having major teen issues. I have spoiled my kids too much and was not strict with them while they needed it. My ex, their father was an extreme disciplinarian and I guess that I overcompensated for his meanness by being too soft.

It is just good parenting, practical advise. These are the background for all good rules for parenting. Toughest job that I've ever had- and the kids don't come with instruction manuals.

Boy, I had no idea until I had kids how much their personalities are formed- before they come out of the womb. I used to ask myself- "what am I doing wrong?" with my oldest, as she was the stubborn, difficult one. My youngest came along and she was real mellow and loving- although those teenage hormones have changed it some.

Good luck.