Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Montessori vs "NCLB" Ordinary Public School

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Home & Family » Parenting Group Donate to DU
 
lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-22-07 01:58 AM
Original message
Montessori vs "NCLB" Ordinary Public School
His Montessori experience: challenged to think, to understand, to lead, to be independent. His pride came from mastery of new areas or from growing into a leadership role in the classroom; his enthusiasm bubbling over from learning fascinating facts about the world around him.

Public school motto so far should be: "Drills on skills." or "Producing responsible widgets today to meet corporate needs tomorrow!" His pride came from getting a "100" on his spelling test.

I asked him which is harder so far, his kindergarten (Montessori) or his 1st grade experience. "Mom, you'll be surprised at my answer," he said. (Yes, he really said that.) "Kindergarten was harder, way harder than this."

His last teacher, and others, had told me 'you can always supplement what they teach at school by encouraging him at home in the evenings'..but our evenings are rapidly getting taken over with inappropriate-for-him homework, plus the day starts a little earlier so bedtime is earlier too.

All of my friends have universally said "it only gets worse". This week other parents have told me: "I'm so tired of (insert name of her 5th grader) having to do the same 'number families' again this year -- he's been doing them for 5 years now and he's so desparate to learn something new but they give him so much homework". "He is sick at home with the stomach flu today but they expect me to pick up his schoolwork this morning and work on it all day long". "When my son (11th grader now) was in 9th grade, he came very close to a nervous breakdown, because of 4 hours of homework every night and all day on Saturday too. I had to wake him up early on Saturdays just so he could get his homework done." "I hate to hurry him but I find myself rushing him on his homework and saying 'stop trying to make it perfect.'" "This isn't too bad yet (in 1st grade) but our older child in 3d grade (at the same school) already has 3 hours of homework per night and the girls know they have to start working on it the minute we get in the car to drive home.." "My daughter (3d grader) gets a lot too, you have to choose between getting it done or getting sleep, we sacrifice the sleep so she doesn't go to be until 9:30 or 10 pm every night." "I think the focus is on getting them used to producing a whole lot of sh** in a ridiculously short amount of time."

Where the heck is there time for family time?? This is simply NUTS. He's six -- I'm drilling him on spelling words this week but I strongly suspect that most of the spelling would be absorbed without the drills as his reading progresses over the next few years, if it wasn't being forced on him at age 6. I suppose that spelling helps develop the reading skills -- but at what cost?

He will do fine, the school is fine, the teacher is fine..and if he doesn't, I'll move him to a private school. But the implications for society of this type of schooling are substantial. I ran across an essay about school with some excerpts from Immanuel Kant that seemed relevant.


Enlightenment is man's emergence from his self-imposed nonage. Nonage is the inability to use one's own understanding without another's guidance. This nonage is self-imposed if its cause lies not in lack of understanding but in indecision and lack of courage to use one's own mind without another's guidance. Dare to know! (Sapere aude.) "Have the courage to use your own understanding," is therefore the motto of the enlightenment.

Laziness and cowardice are the reasons why such a large part of mankind gladly remain minors all their lives, long after nature has freed them from external guidance. They are the reasons why it is so easy for others to set themselves up as guardians. It is so comfortable to be a minor. If I have a book that thinks for me, a pastor who acts as my conscience, a physician who prescribes my diet, and so on--then I have no need to exert myself. I have no need to think, if only I can pay; others will take care of that disagreeable business for me. Those guardians who have kindly taken supervision upon themselves see to it that the overwhelming majority of mankind--among them the entire fair sex--should consider the step to maturity, not only as hard, but as extremely dangerous. First, these guardians make their domestic cattle stupid and carefully prevent the docile creatures from taking a single step without the leading-strings to which they have fastened them. Then they show them the danger that would threaten them if they should try to walk by themselves. Now this danger is really not very great; after stumbling a few times they would, at last, learn to walk. However, examples of such failures intimidate and generally discourage all further attempts.

Thus it is very difficult for the individual to work himself out of the nonage which has become almost second nature to him. He has even grown to like it, and is at first really incapable of using his own understanding because he has never been permitted to try it. Dogmas and formulas, these mechanical tools designed for reasonable use--or rather abuse--of his natural gifts, are the fetters of an everlasting nonage. The man who casts them off would make an uncertain leap over the narrowest ditch, because he is not used to such free movement. That is why there are only a few men who walk firmly, and who have emerged from nonage by cultivating their own minds.


On some level, perhaps "nonage" is the goal of the No-Child-Left-Behind law (in addition to money for private tutors, and destroying or weakening the public school system). Perhaps Bushco realizes that workers who are acclimated to rote, meaningless repetitive work will be better equipped to handle the jobs of the future -- i.e., in McDonalds and as grateful/desparate wage workers. Fewer unruly citizens, more widgets, less mess.
Refresh | 0 Recommendations Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-22-07 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
1. So very sorry your experience is not what you want.
I think we were supremely fortunate that every time we have moved, we've moved to a place where the schools have been terrific. We now have two in college, and our youngest is in high school, and between the three of them, they've experienced five different public school systems in four different states (Indiana, Illinois, Virginia, New York, and Virginia again). We've not ever experienced the overwhelming homework situation, although they've certainly all had their share of work. I never had to drill them - they were all able to do the work themselves, and were encouraged to do so by me and their teachers. The schools have really prepared them for critical thinking, and for succeeding in life.

From the work that they've brought home, to the two oldest and their college work, they've evidently received wonderful schooling from public school teachers. Three daughters, and not a widget-maker in the making yet :)

I hope things work out for you and your child. Best of luck!
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thanks.
I would prefer NOT to be drilling him, and I'm sensitive to the need to let him do his work on his own, but knowing his personality and character, I know that an early failure could quite likely turn him off completely or put him in a 'rebel' mode, too proud to risk failing again. Yet getting his attention to something as mundane as spelling -- before he even had a concept of a graded test -- required a little work.

I'm sure it will work out.

I don't mean to imply that graduates of public schools have all been 'dumbed down'. We are living in Texas which isn't exactly known for its fine school systems. I suspect that NCLB has made a bad situation here worse.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
phylny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I totally understand.
I wish, in a way, that every child had the kind of school experience that my kids did. It sounds like with a parent like you, who is really paying attention to her son and his needs, he'll do well no matter what :)
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 10:11 AM
Response to Original message
2. I really hate NCLB too.
I believe that the goal is to produce mindless worker bees, or worse, that the people who wrote the legislation are so deficient in the compassion area that they cannot see that children differ dramatically in needs and abilities. They only see them as units to accept identical doses of "education", and just enough so they can function as cogs, there is no real effort to embrace the life of the mind and a love of learning.

An op-ed I read in my local paper, not some lefty blog, but the Charlotte Observer, speculated that the legislation was written specifically for to cause public education to fail so they could get on with their goal of full privatization of public education. :scared:

In a more concrete area, I have been able to get a great deal of differentiation in my daughter's first grade education, including homework. I have posted this before, but she has a really great teacher who tries hard to give all the kids what they need. For my daughter and a few of the other advanced readers, she has started them doing something called Junior Great Books. It is a series of children's classics that include some very open-ended and thought provoking end of chapter questions. They even get one period a week to go and have a guided discussion with the GT resource teacher, and neither the school or the teacher are required to do *any* type of GT differentiation until 3rd grade. So they really are trying to serve these kids. The teacher has also arranged for my daughter to go to 2nd grade math starting this Monday.

After meeting with the teacher, we agreed that I am free to substitute or enrich her homework as I see fit, so we do sheets from a math workbook I picked up for $4 instead of what gets sent home. I did some thoughtful shopping at the book store and came home with a number of children's classics that I thought would challenge and interest her for her nightly reading. So now instead of fighting every night over inappropriate homework, which she never wanted to do, my daughter is generally excited to begin because she is challenged and interested in the content. I help her some, but not too much, and the homework feels like part of our family time, not a detriment to it. There is a nice ebb and flow of talk about concepts and ideas. The 4 year old get into it, too, and has become very interested in simple mathematical concepts. On nights when we have too much going on, we blow it off completely and she catches up over the weekend.

I had to make the first move with my daughter's teacher to get the ball rolling on this system. I scheduled a meeting and brought in the books my daughter was reading for fun at home and samples of the math that she had taught herself to do. I believe that the teacher did an informal achievement test as well. Since then, she has been very flexible with us as far as homework, etc. The situation is far from perfect, it involves a lot of extra effort for me and for the teacher, but I feel that my little girl is retaining her love of learning and that is what is important. :)

Maybe if you organized a portfolio of your son's work from the pre-K, you can convince the teacher to differentiate the homework based on that? Good luck!


Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-23-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. "we agreed that I am free to substitute or enrich..." Wow.
I totally admire you for that.
That is gutsy and totally appropriate. Most people suggest simply ADDING to what they are doing, which makes it difficult to find balance in their lives for family time or anything else.

An "ebb and flow of talk about concepts and ideas" is exactly what should not fall by the wayside.

Thanks very much for the suggestions. I will check out the Junior Great Books too.

Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:42 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. We are lucky to have such a sensible teacher.
Just adding more work is unfair. My daughter might be advanced in some areas, but she is still six. She deserves to have the opportunity to be a normal six year old AND have appropriate challenge at school. That means appropriately challenging academic work, not extra busy work. There is research that supports this stance, I can try to find the links if you are interested.

Like I said, our situation is far from perfect, but I think it is good enough for this year, and next year I will try to cobble together a more longterm plan.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-24-07 07:24 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. It seems obvious but what you say is so true and often overlooked.
My friend talked to the teacher of her fifth grader who aces all his math tests. The result was that they told her to have him add on sixth grade math homework to his fifth grade math homework - and she will be the only one checking it! (gee thanks!!).

I think I'll send a note to her about your solution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Sabriel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-29-07 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
8. There's not a ton of evidence that doing spelling makes you spell better
In many cases, either you're a good speller, or you're not. I know quite a few very strong and prolific readers who can barely spell their last names.

As for homework, I challenge my future teachers to revisit the idea of giving homework and to reject it if their reasoning is based on the argument of "Because teachers give homework."

In general, there are two groups of learners in your classroom at the end of the lesson: those who understand the concept and those who don't. And how will homework impact those two groups? One knows it already and doesn't need repetitive practice (this is cognition, not free-throw shooting), and the other doesn't get it and needs more time with a teacher (not with an adult or older sibling at home who probably can't help). Either way, homework is of questionable value.

Teachers need to examine their assumptions about this long-cherished tradition. Here's a link to an article you might like to read:

http://www.alfiekohn.org/teaching/edweek/homework.htm
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
wildeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-30-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Fascinating article.
Thanks for posting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-15-07 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
10. to be frank, I'd find a Montessori-type grade school if I were you
Edited on Mon Oct-15-07 05:21 PM by tigereye
if you have one in your area. We have a magnet here that is Montessori oriented, and I send my kid to a small progressive private school and forgo fancy furniture in the house.

I understand some of the reasoning behind NCLB, but basically it sucks and seems like a plan to destroy public education. No child should be left behind - but it seems like more of them will be due to the this law. How cynical and Orwellian of the Reps, as usual, to pretend that something negative is really positive.


ps some hw/ skills practice is fine, but research doesn't really support the value of homework.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
Tumbulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-18-07 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. I agree- find another school as fast as you can.
Last year my daughter started kindergarten in our "local" public school (30 minute by car or 1 hr by bus) and NCLB had destroyed it. Everything was taught to the tests. There was homework- and I mean an hour every night in kindergarten. And it was an outrageously long day- from 8 am to 2 pm and then homework as well. No art, no music, just drill drill drill. The bully problems were the last straw. Our public school is underfunded and filled with outrageous expectations of the hardest working staff and truly dedicated teachers. After 6 weeks there was an opening in a Waldorf school 45 minutes away. Not only is the drive long, but we have to come up with money for tuition and gas (I leased a hybrid civic which helps).

That said it is like night and day. What a joy this school is. The school hours for the first grade are still less than the public school kindergarten. The children are not stressed by school, they are growing and learning. And they are happy. And the parents that I know there all struggle very hard, like we do to pay the tuition. I have yet to meet someone for whom the tuition is anything but a huge stretch.

NCLB seems to be the one thing the repugs have actually succeeded with- a program to destroy public schools; teachers creativity; and children's hopes, dreams and imaginations all in one swoop.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
tigereye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-24-07 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I attended one of those pick your kindergarten open houses
where a lot of private and public schools have tables - and I had a lot of fun talking to the woman from Waldorf's school here. It is more close in philosophy to the school that my son attends.

We like to say that our schools are "school without the cruelty."
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-08-07 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. I'm not surprised.
But the sad thing is that Montessori schools tuition are way beyond the reach of the average person. Just another example of how the poor are just screwed when it comes to education.
Printer Friendly | Permalink | Reply | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon Jan 20th 2025, 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » DU Groups » Home & Family » Parenting Group Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC