Kindergarten question--how do you know when a child is ready?

[MorningGlow]

My son's birthday is the first week in November. He's been in preschool for two years and is supposed to start kindergarten in the fall. He's 4, so he'll turn 5 two months into the school year.

His preschool teacher really, REALLY wants him to go to pre-K for a year (or repeat preschool for a year) before going to kindergarten. Our district does offer pre-K, but if the child's birthday is before December 1, s/he has to go to kindergarten--no option.

My son is ridiculously smart (yeah, I know, it's mama talking--but really--he's scary sometimes :) ) with a HUGE vocabulary and a mind like a steel trap. However, because of his young age, he has some issues coloring, cutting with scissors, and writing his name (he can do the first letter and doesn't much care about the rest).

I'm not sure what to do here--is his preschool teacher being too cautious? Should I wait till he's screened by the district in April and see what they have to say? Should I put him in a Catholic or private school for more attention? Any advice? Thanks! :hi:

[elleng]

1. You get to decide

which 'standards' to apply, imo.

'Supposed to start' according to whom, and why?

Why does pre-school teacher say what she does? Ask her.

Coloring, cutting are very important young'uns attributes; small motor skills, check them out, and whether he 'should' have them for Kinderg; if so, think about consequences if he doesn't.

Is his current situation 'intellectually' satisfying for him (and you?)

Socialisation very important; has he been with other kiddos? and does how?

Do you like your district/state education system?

Sorry for all questions!

[MorningGlow]

2. I don't know which standards to heed; that's why I'm posting

According to his preschool teacher, coloring, cutting, and writing his name are essential to proving he has the small motor skills to succeed in kindergarten, and she thinks he doesn't have them yet. (Whether he'll develop them before September is another unknown.) On the other hand, she gave all the parents a copy of an article that said that it was the child's attitude and ability to follow directions that was more important than whether s/he could count to 100 or identify colors and shapes or write his/her name. So that was a bit confusing.

He's pretty social and very congenial--very willing to follow directions, listen to a story, do a craft, etc.

He likes his preschool but I think if he repeated the same "grade" over again he'd get bored because he knows what's coming (there's only one teacher for each "grade").

I don't know a whole lot about our district yet--we moved here two years ago. I've heard really good things about how supportive the school is (there's only one school--it's a small town)--that the teachers are very attentive and the atmosphere is very inclusive for all kids.

[elleng]

3. September is a LONG way ahead,

especially for these guys. Is she related to the school district? that is, is the 'pre-school' attached?

There are probably ways to work on these skills separate from his current pre-school; think about what they might be in your area, and so will I. Attentive teacher and inclusive atmosphere sounds very good. Can you possibly speak with the teachers?

[MorningGlow]

4. That's what I was thinking

He's definitely not entirely hopeless with the subjects he's "failing"--he's gotten much better with the scissors in the past month or so, and I'm sure he'll be developing quite a bit with writing and coloring between now and the time school starts; we're already determined to help him work on these things during the summer (even though he'd rather play with his cars, which is his passion).

The preschool is a private one but sort of aligned with another district. It's near my mom, because we enrolled him when I was working full time and she was babysitting, so it was better to send him to a school that was closer to her. I think his teacher used to teach kindergarten in the district, so she's not talking out of her arse, but at the same time I think she's being a little too protective of him--she says she doesn't like to see kids struggle and get frustrated in kindergarten if they can't keep up. And I do appreciate that she's so concerned and everything.

The first informational meeting for our district is tonight, in fact, and screenings are next month. I think the teachers will be there tonight, but even if they aren't, I'll be interested in learning more about the program. If it disappoints, there is a Catholic elementary school in the next town (about 7 minutes away) we can look into.

Thanks, Ellen! :hi:

[elleng]

9. MorningGlow, wish I could meet him!

My daughters, 19 and 23, have basic teaching skills, I think acquired at their first great (private) school. I'm trying to get in touch with a teacher friend of theirs now, to help with your quandary. We're in DC, public schools not good, so they went from private to catholic (to college!)

I hope to get some info from my kids, as I hate use of terms 'struggle' and 'frustrated' in kindergarten; should not happen!

Please try not to make it feel like either fun or school; both schould be combined. More difficult for we mere untrained parents! Think about how playing with cars as he loves might encompass coloring, cutting, etc.

[wildeyed]

6. If he is social, congenial and on the bright side, he might do fine.

My friend's son started K not really writing or coloring, but when the expectation was there for him to do those things, he picked them right up.

My son has fine motor delays. His are serious enough that he sees an occupational therapist once a week. I am uncertain about K next year, too. He is way ahead in many areas, but can't write and hates coloring and cutting. So his K day will consist of reviewing things he already knows and then a bunch of stuff he can't do/hates. And he is not a child who goes along to get along, either. If he is unhappy or frustrated, he makes sure everyone suffers.

I am considering keeping him home with me next year. We would have lots of time to work on his OT issues through therapy and other activities the therapist has suggested. Then, provided he is caught up, he can start 1st with his age mates.

[MorningGlow]

7. Your son sounds like mine

He is very social, congenial to a fault, and shockingly bright (intelligent, clever, everything on the spectrum), but does not like to color or cut with scissors. He has gotten a lot better with scissors in the past month since his preschool teacher evaluated him, but he just. doesn't. like. to. color. He only likes playing with toy cars--hardly any other pastime pleases him. I've even bought him a Hot Wheels coloring book, and...nada. NO interest. But I plan on treating coloring and writing like "homework"/practice between now and September and see how he does.

[wildeyed]

10. You could try the Handwriting Without Tears program,

or some of the Montessori manipulatives. A friend of mine did the Montessori sand paper letters with her son, then the next day he could write, just like magic. Some kids prefer a hands-on, kinesthetic approach to learning.

The other thing you might consider is having an OT evaluation done. The evaluation is not harmful to the child and your insurance might cover it, mine did. If your son just doesn't like coloring and writing, but can do it if he tries, they will suggest some ways to get him more interested in the activity. If he has a more serious underlying issue, then the earlier you address it, the better the long term prognosis.

Kids who don't engage in regular kid pastimes like coloring, blocks, puzzles, etc. often don't because they can't. If all he does is play with cars, that may be because it is all he *can* do.

In addition to not coloring or drawing, my son never played with blocks or puzzles. He would swing endlessly in the backyard or do messy, smelly science experiments in the kitchen. That was pretty much it. Once he started OT, he blossomed. Now he loves puzzles and builds with blocks. Most importantly, he seems happier. He is also lower maintenance to parent since he can do many more activities now. Still not enthusiastic about writing, but he is at least willing to give it a go.

Your son may just be a reluctant writer who really likes cars. I don't mean to be alarmist. But it is good to be aware that there can be other problems that need more serious intervention.

[elleng]

13. Manipulatives great!

Sand paper letters, or whatever manipulatives might be available.

'Hands on' is largely how mine were taught; math teach said if its about food or money, they get it! So count > sort and classify, cheerios, halloween candies, etc.

LOTS of different learning styles, and it would be more than great if every school was aware of such.

http://www.ldpride.net/learningstyles.MI.htm

Re: learning styles, Helen Keller photo:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3211874

[phylny]

15. A few things come to mind here.

First of all, you can at any time go to your school district and ask for a child study meeting to discuss fine motor skills, and to possibly have him evaluated by an occupational therapist. Many children aren't able to cut, color, and write easily, but if he were my son, I would have him evaluated because in Kindergarten, those fine motor skills make up a good deal of the curriculum.

Secondly, and I don't want to raise an alarm here, but as a speech-language pathologist, who works with a LOT of kids, I've run across many kids who will not play with anything else but their ONE passion. This concerns me. I think it's really okay for kids to LOVE one thing, but not at the expense of other things. If he has a brilliant vocabulary, then he should be engaged in many kinds of imaginative, make believe play scenarios, which he may be doing with his cars. I don't know what his play consists of with his cars, whether they "talk" to each other, solve problems, etc., but the lack of a variety of interests is not generally positive to overall growth. I heard a recent broadcast on NPR where they are studying children and their make-believe play, and they find that the less make believe, unstructured play they're involved in, the less they are able to "self talk" to handle stress, internally monitor their behavior, and cope as they get older. In the children I see, I can say it's very true.

Finally, someone mentioned "Handwriting Without Tears" and I know from the OTs that I work with that they love this program and that it is doing great things for the children they work with.

Good luck with your decision.

[MorningGlow]

16. Thanks for weighing in, phylny

Apparently the evaluation they'll be doing in April will include checking fine motor skills. After the assessment is over, they sit with the parent(s) and discuss the results, so I figure I'll have a chance to ask them what they think then, and compare it to what his preschool teacher thinks.

As for his love of cars, I didn't mean to make him sound OCD or stunted in his mental development or anything. He will play with a ball or his lacrosse gear, ride his bike, etc., but he just loves cars, much the way a little girl will prefer a particular set of dolls or what have you. He does like to role play--as a policeman or fireman (there are those vehicles again?)--with the other kids in preschool. He does a LOT of make believe, both on his own and with his classmates. He just simply likes cars best. I'm not worried about it at all. He's very well adjusted and doesn't display any signs of emotional or developmental issues in the least.

But I appreciate your sharing your experience! :hi:

[trotsky]

5. I'd wait for the district screening.

It's only a month away, and they know better than anyone else who will be ready and who won't.

[MorningGlow]

8. Yes, I will do that

I don't know how they evaluate him; I'll try to find out at the informational meeting. But I am very interested in seeing what they have to say.

[Ms. Toad]

11. Interesting they are pushing you to start him at 4.

When my daughter was headed to kindergarten, they gave us the suicide lecture to try to convince us to keep her out another year. Her birthday was in July, so she was already 5 by the time school started. The suicide lecture: kids who are young for their grade commit suicide at a much higher rate than kids who wait a year (complete with sob stories and articles to support their point).

We ignored them - and she graduates in a couple months as valedictorian.

But - there seems to be a heightened concern recently for male children. First grade skills have been moved down to kindergarten, and children are expected to sit and behave like students for much longer periods than a few years ago. For boys, particularly young boys, this is often challenging. They hear, repeatedly, "Johnny why can't you sit quietly like Susie?" and get all sorts of messages it is not healthy for them to hear at that young age - particularly since they are just doing what comes most naturally for them at that age.

If I were the parent of a young male who had any difficulties in acting studious (coloring, writing, sitting still) I would seriously consider waiting a year - or putting him in a private school which is geared toward more active education in the early years. No matter how smart he is, if he is constantly nagged at to do things he is just not developmentally ready to do, he may come to hate school and/or feel himself inferior.

[MorningGlow]

12. Suicide? Really?

I never heard that before. Sounds a bit much to me too.

I have heard that boys develop a bit later than girls, so I think that might also be affecting his preschool teacher's opinion to keep him at a pre-K level for another year. MG Jr. can sit quietly and be studious pretty well--he's just a bit behind on the physical muscle development that allow him to perform fine motor skills like coloring and cutting. It is purely a physical thing. But he did make a comment about how he didn't like to cut "because I'm not good at it", so I can see that affecting his self esteem. I have to take that into consideration.

Congrats on your ToadKid! You must be very proud! :D

[Ms. Toad]

14. I thought their suicide lecture was way over the top,

and told them so. They had a half dozen articles to support their case.

Definitely proud of ToadKid (or Feli, when she posted on DU a few years ago).

[aikoaiko]

17. How did it turn out?

Just wondering how it all turned out for your child. We are dealing with the same issues for our son (four) who has been in therapy for some time. We decided to hold him back in his three-year-old class next year so he can catch up. (His birthday is only a few months before the other children.) I am concerned that at some point when we change schools that he'll be forced into a class by his age and not his development.

[MorningGlow]

18. Oh my, I haven't seen this thread in a while!

Funny how I just checked this group on a whim! :)

MG Jr. turned out fine, actually. Early on his teacher was worried about his fine motor skills, but by the time we had him tested by the district physical therapists (just after Christmas, I think), he had caught up and was doing fine. He lags just a bit in reading and some other skills, but it's no wonder, as he's still 5 1/2 and several of his classmates turned 6 some time ago--a few are well on their way to being 6 1/2!

He is very clever--sharper than a lot of kids--with a keen analytical mind, so that makes up for his lack of interest in coloring ;) --but I think it's more his personality (pretty shy) more than his age that's holding him back. That, however, is another matter altogether.

So it's k'garten graduation in a couple of weeks and on to first grade in a few months--where DOES the time go? :wow:

[CoffeeCat]

19. Preschool teachers aren't always right...

You know your child best. I think you need to forget what this preschool teacher is saying. She's not
an expert in Kindergarten, and from what you've said--she's dead wrong.

Your son sounds very bright and VERY ready for kindergarten. My two children (who are now in 3rd and 4th grade)
didn't have great vocabularies like your son. My youngest child started off kindergarten not writing well, but
now she's doing just great. My oldest didn't excel at reading until 3rd grade and now she's a voracious reader.

Kids learn at different paces.

If your son shows an interest and excitement about starting Kindergarten, I would have no problems sending him. My
youngest had a late bday (mid May) and we considered waiting a year, but she was ready emotionally so we sent her.

We never had any regrets.

BTW--we had a preschool teacher tell us that our oldest was in no way ready for Kindergarten. This woman had no idea
what she was talking about. There are many, many great preschool teachers out there, but if a preschool teacher is insisting that
your child is not ready--despite the fact that they do show readiness and excitement about learning--then I would seek
a second opinion.

Preschool teachers are not experts on the kindergarten classroom.

[seabeyond]

20. i have a son who is youngest in class, and son whose birthday fell in oct and one of oldest

it worked for them cause son who is youngest in class is ahead in about all things, so getting thru school has been easy enough. glad i started him early. many parents allow the sons another year. what i have found is on a social perspective he was behind. growth ect... not academically and did not struggle in that area at all. in pre AP classes. but socially, with so many of the boys older anyway, that left him far behind. he is going into freshman year and more comfortable, and catching up, but that has been a challenge for him

my son who naturally fell into the older in class cause birthday is in fall didnt have those issues.

lots of parents wait with boys.