Migrating from Fedora to BSD...

[pauliedangerously]

Hello all! I'm kind of GNU here in this group...

I've got a Fedora box that I plan to wipe clean so I can dink around with BSD. I just picked up a copy of UNIX Network Programming. I'm not schooled in programming, but I want to get more into the nuts and bolts.

Can anyone share experiences in such a migration? I work from a UNIX term server at work and it doesn't seem so different, but I've heard people grumble about different nix distros.

Also, can anyone recommend a good book on general C Programming and/or a good site to get some sample code to play with? I've never compiled a program from scratch and I really want to do some debugging...purely out of curiosity.

Thanks.

[RoyGBiv]

1. Differences ...

The main difference between BSD and Linux is that BSD is a single project with all its parts integrated. A Linux system is a combination of the Linux kernel and any number of programs, which may come from any number of developers. When you use Fedora, you're using a system made by people all over the place, and the Fedora project teams cobbles that all together, sometimes with their own customizations, the latter of which can actually cause issues if after an install you try to go back to the main source tree for that project rather than the one customized by the distribution project team. (For example, take a SuSE installation and try to install a customized kernel made from the main source tree *without* applying the patches SuSE applies. It'll break.) A Linux distribution is a combination of often hundreds of projects. With BSD, the distribution is considered a single project.

In practice, the differences are really minimal, but important. Some commands are different, or the switches for common commands are different. You may find yourself needing to compile from source more than on a typical Linux distro. The directory structure (where stuff is) is different than a typical Linux distro, but then this is what causes a lot of people to grumble about different Linux distros. SuSE may use /opt as the default installation path for common things while Debian might use /usr. (At least that's the difficulty I've had.)

Linux and BSD are also licensed differently.

Can I ask why you chose BSD? I'm just curious. I tend to associate it with server duty, but I know people use it for a desktop as well.

I've been getting into the "nuts and bolts" of Linux recently myself, and I'm using Slackware to do so. Others with a more intense desire to customize everything often pick Gentoo. The really brave go for Linux from Scratch.

Can't help you with the programming bit as I'm not a programmer.

[bemildred]

2. I recommend:

Stevens' other book "Advanced Programming in the UNIX Environment", then the one you mention, and then "TCP/IP Illustrated", in that order. Cheswick & Bellovin's "Firewalls and Internet Security" is very good too.

I use BSD mainly to surf these days, because I can be fearless. I came to prefer it because it stays pretty stable over time, it's easy to get around in when you know how things are laid out, and I can hack to whatever level I need to to get my way.

Linux has other virtues, which are not to be sneezed at, but is a lot messier to deal with when you get into serious fooling around.

I have never found an entirely satisfactory C tutorial. Stevens supplied lots of code in the form of little programs for APUE, and it can be very educational to go through all of them and make them work right in your current environment, and by the time you are done you will have a fair grasp of UNIX programming essentials in C. The same applies to "Unix Network Programming". Then you can get something on algorithms and you are getting close to being competent. In the end it's very much an accrued skill, and it is variety and experience that pay.

YMMV.

[hunter]

3. True fearlessness requires multiple computers.

There's always got to be one or two computers around that will connect to the internet no matter how badly you screw up. I've got a little Dell Latitude laptop stashed away under my desk IN CASE OF EMERGENCY. It cost me a hundred bucks, and I had to fix a few things on it, but for peace of mind it's priceless.

[bemildred]

4. Yes. I have an old Athlon 1.2 Thunderbird box that I built. It was

superseded a couple years back, but I keep around and up to date for that purpose, and to back things up to. Your solution sounds excellent too, and the point is well taken, redundant access to the internet is essential these days.

[pauliedangerously]

5. Thanks very much for the advice...

I have both of the Stevens books you mentioned; I'm finding the TCP text particularly helpful because I work in a call center for an ISP.

That said, I DEFINITELY have redundancy in my PCs. I learned that the hard way when I made a Knoppix disk several years ago. It did something to the MBR on my bitchy Windows box and I could not get it to reboot. ACK!!

The programming book is a little dense, but I hope to muddle my way through it over the next year or so.

I'm planning on doing my migration this weekend.

Cheers!

[bemildred]

6. It needs to be taken in small doses.

Whatever you can handle, a long term project as you say. Persistence pays, and
a certain tolerance for frustration. Good luck with it. It isn't magic.

If you must have a C book, I would recommend Kernighan and Ritchies original,
which is also dense, but won't fill you up with bullshit either:

http://cm.bell-labs.com/cm/cs/cbook/

[hunter]

7. BSD and C are immortal.

I think there was a sense of that when they were first released, at least that's how I remember it. Certain smells bring it all back. I've still got a few of my University of California lab manuals, but I'm a bloody idiot for giving away my first copy of Kernighan and Ritchie.

BSD and Kernighan and Ritchie's original The C Programming Language were both released in 1978, when my butt was firmly parked in the computer lab and I didn't yet have a "real" life.

Alas, my C skills are as faded as my German language or Munz California Botany skills; like distant memories of an old girlfriend...

[bemildred]

8. A model for pith in development that seems no longer in vogue.

It is amazing how much they got right, and how right they got it. I think few these days understand, for example, what an amazing piece of work the original IP specification was. Not reliable? Why would you specify unreliable delivery? If you know the answer to that question, you understand computing far better than most.

The hands-on imperative is not what it once was either. Everyone seems to be building empires these days.