Vista vs. XP on a new laptop?

[Muttocracy]

Hi folks, I wondered if DU had a computer forum, and yes, DU has a forum for everything!

I'm looking into buying a new laptop. My old one is 5 years old, battery doesn't work, overheats, and some keys don't work. I'll probably just buy another Dell with Windows (what I've bought the last two times). I'm looking at the Dell Outlet site (returns, refurbished, etc.) to save some money. Any modern laptop will go far beyond anything I need to do at home (email, web, MS Office) so I'm not worried about getting the latest greatest thing. Money, however, is a bit tight.

One thing I'm wondering about is Vista vs XP. There are a small number of laptops left with XP, which is what I use at home and work. My employer is waiting on Vista for the time being, but maybe that's more an issue of certain custom software than a negative verdict on Vista - but I have heard generally negative reviews of Vista.

So my question is, would it be silly to buy a new laptop with XP? or better than suffering through whatever is bad about Vista?

edit to add: if I should go with Vista, how much difference is there between the various Vista flavors?

Thanks in advance.

[RoyGBiv]

1. It's not silly ...

I'll say this. The majority of the people I've dealt with personally who have had problems with Vista started out with a story similar to yours. They wanted something new, but wanted to save money, so they got a refurb or an otherwise low-cost laptop that happened to have Vista on it.

I posted something of a rant awhile back about Vista in which I sorta highlighted this issue. Microsoft low-balls required system specs for their software, particularly Windows. So, you have to pay attention to what you're getting in hardware to know whether Vista will not just run on it, but allow you to use the machine in the manner you're accustomed. To make a long story short, if you get Vista, make certain you have 2GB of memory, a decent graphics adapter, and a modern, fairly speedy processor. You don't need high-end stuff, but there are systems out there with 512MB of memory and a low-end ~1.2GHz processor with Vista pre-loaded, and they are slow as snails on valium.

But, it's not silly to get XP.

[Muttocracy]

2. thanks, that's very helpful

there are some Vista ones that are even cheaper than the XP ones, but have lower specs than that - so I would probably be better off with XP if I'm in that range of memory/processor.

On the other hand, if I DO get one with XP, should I make sure it can handle Vista eventually? Or do you think Microsoft will at least support XP for several more years?

[RoyGBiv]

4. 2014 ...

Microsoft has announced they'll continue to offer security patches and the like up to 2014.

Of course, that could change tomorrow, and it may already have changed by the time I hit Post on this. :-)

Overall, I have a basic philosophy that's served me well. I don't get the latest and greatest when I purchase, but I don't go low-end either. Upper-middle is where I like to stay. If you go low-low-end, it's not just the OS you're going to have to worry about in the future. The *hardware* you're getting may no longer be supported with upgrades to drivers and such. Specifically regarding memory, with the price of it, don't get less than a Gig anyway and try to get 2 regardless if you can afford it at all. That's one of the biggest stumbling blocks to performance.

It's sorta like playing poker with all this really. You have to guess a lot.

[Muttocracy]

5. thanks. I'm going to try to get some value rather than just lowest $$

I'm also wondering about the headaches of learning Vista. I do a lot of teaching myself new stuff in life, but Windows isn't one of my interests!

[sam sarrha]

13. XP died 7-2-08, production ended, only warehouse stock is left,

[DainBramaged]

20. RIP XP

:cry:

[Muttocracy]

3. I found your "rant"

thanks for that too
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=242x19072

[Gore1FL]

6. Things you will "need" for Vista if you expect to be happy

Make sure you have a 4MB L2 cache
Make sure you have core 2 duo processor
Make sure you have a 800Mhz (min) FSB
Make sure you have at least 2GB of memory.

[RoyGBiv]

7. L2 Cache ...

For a person on a budget, I think the processors with 4MB L2 cache are a tad pricey, wouldn't you say?

While this would certainly improve performance, I think the 1MB and 3MB models would be okay.

[Gore1FL]

9. It depends

I saw an Inspiron laptop with a t7500 on the Dell Refurbished site a few months ago that was going for around $800. I bought a t7300 model for $1000 last december, so the prices are dropping pretty quick, at lease as far as the Dell outlet is going.

2MB L2 cache would be OK, for sure, but with laptops topping out with an 800Mhz FSB, I'd highly recommend the 4MB.

[MyNameGoesHere]

8. Dell.....

yes they used to make good products, yes they used to have good support. If you need a brand name by all means buy Dell. But over the last few years Dell has hit this skids as far as product reliability and support. You still pay a premium for the product but you are not getting the same value you would have a few years ago. Example:

We had 30 laptops 2 years ago all Dell. Support time on these laptops cost us about 30-50 man hours a week on issues related to hard ware failures.

We dumped Dell and went with HP and over the last 2 years have experienced 2 failures. Not to mention that the price of procurement was 20% less than the Dells.

Now i am not saying that HP is the best but service and reliability are something you should take into account.
I am saying that in the business world of IT i have seen first hand that Dell is suffering a little at this point in time. Who knows they may turn it around but when i procure IT hardware now i avoid Dell like the plague.

[CabalPowered]

10. I'd stick with XP on the laptop

There's no comparative advantage of Vista over XP on laptops. I like and use Vista Ultimate on my home pc but have no interest of running it on a laptop. If you do go with Vista, I think the best bang/buck is with the Business version. If you want a laptop that's going to last a bit longer, check out the X series thinkpads. You can still get them with xp.

[Muttocracy]

11. thanks for the tips - I should look at Thinkpads too

I adored my first Dell Inspiron (back when they were still assembled in Austin I think), which died a tragic accidental death. I hate my second one (I was in a time and budget pinch and bought a cheap Inspiron). I really like the Latitude I have to use for work, but new Latitudes are probably outside my price range.

I should spend some time looking at other brands before I jump on a Dell, esp. if other brands are still sold new with XP.

[sam sarrha]

12. check this out...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834114496&cm_sp=DailyDeal-_-34-114-496-_-Homepage

Model
Brand TOSHIBA
Series Satellite
Model A305-S6864
Part# PSAGCU-02Q015
General
Operating System Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit
CPU Type Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 2.26G
Screen 15.4" WXGA
Memory Size 4GB DDR2
Hard Disk 320GB
Optical Drive DVD Super Multi
Graphics Card ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3470
Video Memory 256MB
Card slot 1 x Express Card
Dimensions 14.3" x 10.5" x 1.36-1.52"
Weight Starting at 6.0 lbs.
Other Features FM Tuner with antenna
CPU
CPU Type Intel Core 2 Duo
CPU Speed P8400(2.26GHz)
CPU FSB 1066MHz
CPU L2 Cache 3MB
Chipset
Chipset Intel PM45
Display
Screen Size 15.4"
Wide Screen Support Yes
LCD Features TruBrite technology
Display Type Wide XGA
Resolution 1280 x 800
Operating Systems
Operating System Windows Vista Home Premium 64-bit
Graphics
GPU/VPU ATI Mobility Radeon HD 3470
Video Memory 256MB DDR discrete graphics memory
Total Available Graphics Memory 2046MB
Graphic Type Dedicated Card
Hard Drive
HDD 320GB
HD RPM 5400rpm
HD Interface SATA
Memory
Memory Slots 2 x DIMM
Memory Speed DDR2 800
Memory 4GB

http://www.newegg.com/store/SubCategory.aspx?SubCategory=32&Tpk=laptops
a list of what they have.. they have good return policy, extended warenty and support.. laptops are the one of most returned on warenty products.

i built my new rig from newegg parts.. first build no problems
ANTEC 900 Case. ASUS Rampage Formula X48. Intel Zeon 3110 3.2 MHz. VISTA 64bit Home Premium. Silent Knight2 CPU cooler. 8 GB OCZ Reaper HPC DDR2 1400. 2x Western Digital Caviar SE-16 500GB HD RAID1. VisionTec Radeon HD 3870 X2. Cosair 750 wattPSU. OPTI UPS Battery Back Up. Logtech RX Revolution mouse..love the mouse, i only have one hand, it helps a lot.
Icemat pad.. love the pad, teflon tape on the feet, it's movement is perfect

[Muttocracy]

14. thanks, I'll give those a look

- haven't bought anything yet but am looking again. I don't know if I can handle building my own laptop right now. When my first Dell got banged on the floor I managed to buy a screen and some other parts off eBay and keep it going for a while, but that was a stretch for me. I like do-it-myselfing but I've got such a backlog of stuff at work and in life that now may not be the time.

[CountAllVotes]

15. I bought my new computer from Toshiba

They gave me a better deal than the online price btw! I saved about $150.00 by calling them and placing the order over the phone. The computer is a Toshiba Tecra and it cost me $1009.00 delivered which included sales tax (I got free shipping) and arrived a few days after I ordered it. Their phone # is: 800-316-0920 if you are interested.

I'd skip the Lenovos. I had one briefly and it arrived DOA and had many other obvious faults.

The Toshiba Tecra A9 comes with VISTA on it.

http://www.toshibadirect.com/td/b2c/cdetland.to?seg=HHO&poid=392490&fgpn=PTS53U-0RC003&in_merch=1

The recovery disk has XP Professional on it which you have to install on it after you get it. It took about 1 hr. to do this.

It is working well and if I need to reload it, I have the recovery disk which will reformat the system and install XP Professional on it (not VISTA).

Best of luck - keep looking ... lots of deals around this time of the year what with school starting soon, etc. :)

[Muttocracy]

16. thanks - I had several friends who worked overseas and used Toshibas

At the time (1990s) they were considered best for banging around in a Land Rover, running off a car battery, and still ticking.

But things change so fast with quality going up and down for certain companies.

[CountAllVotes]

17. you are getting good advice I think

I was a die hard ThinkPad/IBM user until they sold the ThinkPad business to Lenovo. The cheap ones are exactly that, cheap. The one I had was highly inferior to this one I have now as it had the high gloss screen, a very short AC adapter cord that would not reach the wall to plug it in and was poorly built (they skimped on almost everything).

I'd never consider buying a Lenovo of any sort again. I own one of the first ones that came out in 2003 (it has the letters IBM on it) and it still runs but it is pretty crummy when comparing it to the same model of ThinkPad that was made before the change took place.

Also, the customer service at Lenovo was AWFUL. I was given a "case number" and told to call back. When I did call back, I was told that the case number I'd been assigned did not exist. I was on the phone for HOURS on hold for a DOA computer. Luckily, I managed to get my money back and I waited and looked around for a few months before I found this Toshiba Tecra. It is solidly built and it cost about $300.00 more that the Lenovo did which was well worth it.

For this reason alone, I'd recommend buying from the company itself rather than a company that is selling them indirectly.

The way I managed to get the discount is I told the man that was selling it that I'd order it online being I have a Discover card and I can get 5% cash back by going to their site via Discover's link to Toshiba. After I told him this, the price was dropped from $1040.00 to $933.00. It always helps to have something to barter with (in this case it was the Discover card option). If you have a Discover card you might check out their "Shop Discover" link on their page after you log into your Discover card acct. if you have one. :)

I hope this helps!

[paparush]

18. 35% of all boxes sold with Vista were "downgraded" to XP

August 18, 2008 (Computerworld) More than one in every three new PCs is downgraded from Windows Vista to the older Windows XP, either at the factory or by the buyer, a performance and metrics researcher said today.

According to Devil Mountain Software Inc., which operates a community-based testing network, nearly 35% of the 3,000-plus PCs it examined had been downgraded from Vista to XP.

"Either these machines were downgraded by Dell or HP, or they were downgraded by the user after they got the machine," said Craig Barth, chief technology officer at Devil Mountain. "In any case, these machines are no longer running Vista."

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9112885

[CountAllVotes]

19. The one I just bought came with XP Prof. as the reload disk

that should tell us something. I don't think anyone wants VISTA. I had it briefly (less that 1 hr.) and oh my, what a nightmare! :puke:

:kick:

[DainBramaged]

21. Well, having too many computers for my own good....

My laptop is a Vista, and I just (this week) built an experimental gaming system using Vista Basic, 3.2 Pentium D dual core, 8500GT Nvidia graphic, 160GB hd, 2GB memory. It works well, but heat is a problem, have to add more cooling. Otherwise I am not afraid of the Vista monster.