An off-the-cuff dissertation on the subject of reformatting

[canetoad]

Aimed at Windows users; I have not enough experience with Linux and modern Macs, although I buggered up my early Macs with amazing regularity resulting in a re-install of OS 6.5 or 7 many times.

My personal view on all versions of Windows I have used is that the OS is nothing more than a means to drive the programs I need to use. Windows can usually accomplish the task, but in an ugly and inelegant manner. To get things to work as I would like them, I need to tweak, contort, slash, burn and otherwise meddle with the basic premises upon which Windows is based, just to achieve a machine that is user friendly to me.

Many things are non-negotiable, such as not being directed to save my working documents in a pre-installed folder called, strangely enough, 'My Documents' on the C drive.

If you haven't noticed, I'm a proponent of reformatting; early, often and painlessly. This is in part due to a cost/time/productivity factor; how long can I spend sorting out problems compared to a fresh install. Up and working in a couple of hours - compared to crashes, freezes and unexplained re-boots, all the while spending hours trying to track down the problem. Sorry, not my way.

I understand that re-loading scares some people and to help combat this, I urge everyone to do it at least once voluntarily. Just to discover that there is no magick involved, just logic and common sense.

And when you get to that window that asks you if you want to create a partition on the drive, say YES. Allocate 20 or 30 or more Gigs for your operating system and programs. Then set aside a partition for your own work.

The advantages are amazing. So is the peace of mind that comes with knowing that even if Windows fucks up, you can quickly wipe and replace it WITHOUT LOSING ONE SINGLE KB OF YOUR OWN FILES. And without wrestling with arcane backup programs.

You could take it one step further and purchase a largish USB drive, store installers of all your 'must have' programs on it (in my case, always a Firefox so I never even need to start IE)and put it away, only to come out when you re-load Windows. For programs you only have on disc, there are many freebie ISO tools that make mountable images of your program discs.

To condense this rather scattered and un-followable diatribe: do not be scared of re-loading Windows, it can save a lot of grief in trying to sort out what is wrong with your computer. Make sure you set yourself up first, so that it is a completely painless task and you lose none of your files.

Files get corrupted, operating systems fuck up. The level of dysfunctionality you tolerate could be directly related to the amount of knowledge and effort it takes to fix the problems. Trust me, it ain't hard to re-install Windows and with a little insight a re-load may help you understand the combination of events that caused it to fuck up in the first place.

Thats all. Toke on my geekie brothers and sisters.

[hobbit709]

1. I always partition, I never keep data on the C: drive.

Another thing I do when I get a clean install finished with all the drivers, apps and tweaks is make an image of the C: drive with Acronis True Image and keep it on one of the other partitions. If I need to restore I have it all set up and ready to go in just a few minutes.

[RoyGBiv]

2. I agree actually ...

I agree assuming one takes the advice that you do the necessary prep work for it and create that second partition.

If people bother to get my advice beforehand and won't do a custom build, I tend to advise those who purchase pre-built machines that they should make sure a complete install disc comes with the package (not just a "restore" disc) and not leave the store or online shopping site until they are certain they have it. I actually tend to suggest people avoid online buying for pre-builts for this reason. The retailer may *say* you're getting an install disc, but you have no way of verifying that until the thing gets to you, and good luck trying to negotiate that over the phone. When buying they should avoid Dell or any other manufacturer that sometimes relies on hidden partitions before the system will be recognized as valid. Finally, they need to get a USB stick and load it with drivers and other necessary programs for that machine, and then do a complete re-install of Windows before they start doing anything important with it.

This has at least three advantages, the first of which is to rid yourself of all that pre-installed garbage large-scale system builders put there so they can artificially subtract the cost of the operating system. Second, it lets you create that second partition so that when something gets screwed so badly a re-install becomes necessary you don't have to worry about that so much. Finally, it gives you the experience of doing it in a non-critical situation. The last thing you want to experience with a computer is finding it necessary to reinstall the OS when the Big Report is due the next day and you've never done it before and can't get help at 3am. (Been there with a Windows 95 machine that ate itself)

Since you mentioned it, the only practical difference between this and a Linux system is that Linux distros do much of that for you. That is, the installers tend to default to two partitions minimum, one root and one /home for your user files and settings. The drivers, except for proprietary blobs and hacks for hardware that's not officially supportable, e.g. accelerated graphics drivers from NVidia and ATI, are in the kernel already. And, all those "important" programs are already there.

The hassle, for me, with installing Windows is with installing all the specialized drivers when necessary and then the software. Installing Windows itself isn't hard, but the work afterward, while not generally hard, is obnoxious. I think I've told the story before about an attempt to install Office on a brand new Vista laptop and spending *hours* just waiting on the damn thing. I've refined my own process to the point I can usually get a basic Linux system running the way I want it (depending on the distro and without my own customizations) in a couple hours. Windows varies. If all the "grunt work" of finding the drivers, install discs, etc. has already been done, that doesn't take more than a couple hours either. If not, it takes more, and if there's a lot of software to be installed, sometimes a lot more.

[BlueJazz]

9. "Been there with a Windows 95 machine that ate itself" LOL!....

Oh Man...I rememmber sitting in a chair and staring at the 95 logo saying:

"Install xxx.dll....after which windows will shut down and restart."
"Install xxx.dll....after which windows will shut down and restart."
"Install xxx.dll....after which windows will shut down and restart."
"Install xxx.dll....after which windows will shut down and restart."
"Install xxx.dll....after which windows will shut down and restart."
"Install xxx.dll....after which windows will shut down and restart."
.
.
.
Repeat 47 times

AAARRRRHHHGGG!! :) :) :)

[RoyGBiv]

10. It was a wonder of weirdness ...

I swear sometimes it just decided it didn't want to work any more and committed suicide.

There was a time when I actually worried about the possibility of sentient computers coming alive and taking over the world. Then when '95 came along, that worry faded. Maybe they would become self-aware. Maybe they would try to take over. But, all humans would have to do is wait. The Blue Screen of Death would be our salvation. :)

[Duer 157099]

3. Good topic

As another one who has dealt with this quite a bit over the years, I've got a few opinions and many remaining questions.

At one point I was determined to create *the* master image, the one with all of my core programs installed, updated and configured, all drivers installed, etc. I got close, I think. But here's the really bizarre irony: once I make them, I never use them again! Because, apparently, by the time my computer gets to the stage of needing a reinstall, too many variables have subsequently changed. So then I tried just making a bare-boned image, and for whatever reason, I *still* end up doing a complete fresh reinstall from scratch when the need arises, because, whether true or not, I *believe* the image is probably outdated or something.

Maybe, for me, the real issue is that I've reformatted and reinstalled so many times in my life that I'm actually comfortable doing it. Sigh.

My last effort was to make (using nLite, I think) a custom install disk with all the security patches etc included. I quit before I made one that I was satisfied with. Maybe one day soon I'll try again.

[HappyCynic]

4. I've always partitioned

I've always partitioned my home system. It might be a bit of overkill but I typically have one partition for the OS (and the paging file), one partition for applications, one partition for games, and one for data (downloads, personal data, etc.). It gave me a good separation between the different aspects of the system.

[madokie]

5. I've reformated and reloaded windows so many times I could do it in my sleep

I'm sure. I found nlite a few years ago and have a highly manerized version of my xp home that I can reload in a matter of minutes, other than when I go with a regular format rather than a quick format that is. The next time I plan to make another partition that I put all my other programs on and leave windows all to its own. Maybe even make a third partition to put the temp files etc on. I would like to read some comments if anyone has some concerning my doing this, is it good or bad, smart or dumb or just plain assed stupid. :-)

[canetoad]

6. Yep, I've often wondered

about a separate partition for programs, apart from Windows. I can't really see any downside apart from the settings that are stored in Application Data will be lost, but re-setting various options is a damn sight quicker than re-installing the big programs. The Adobe suite may be a problem, being a lot bigger and twice as troublesome as Windows. I still haven't figured out where it stores some stuff.

To all who replied, it seems that none of you have any qualms about re-loading Windows, and I agree that the drudge work is the time spent getting it set up and tweaked again after installation. I've never bothered making a disc image, like Duer 157099, I probably wouldn't use it.

[RoyGBiv]

7. Program partition ...

I've done this.

It can be a pain in the ass, for multiple reasons, some of which you mention.

The biggest issue I recall was maintaining consistency. Some software gets really confused if it is not installed on the same partition as Windows when it goes to try to call on something out of the dll folder. I remember one program I had that I could install on the separate partition, but it always created a support directory on the main Windows partition regardless, so it defeated the purpose.

[canetoad]

8. The disadvantages would probably outweigh the benefits

An example may be ATI video drivers. Like it or not, my vid card needs .net framework to run the Catalyst Control Centre and I doubt whether it would function being installed on a separate partition. You would end up with certain programs that run OK from a different partition, others that would not.

I have a collection of no-install programs that are not stored on the C drive and this works satisfactorily. As various apps become portable, I'm changing to the no-install versions. This unfortunately, will never be true of Office and Adobe so I guess I'm stuck with it.