Advice on Monitor Purchase

[RoyGBiv]

Background : I have horrible luck with monitors. Every "good" one I've purchased has flaked out just past the warranty period, and by then, fixing it is usually just as expensive as buying a new one. This has been my experience with all but one monitor, an cheapo, on-sale, supposedly piece of garbage from Envision. I've had it since 2000, and it's never failed me.

I've tried to replace it twice and ended up going back to it, but I've come to the point now where I really need to replace it. As mentioned, it's old and cheap. To display at any resolution over 800x600 requires 60Hz refresh, which creates a horrible flicker and is causing me to have some rather severe headaches. A display smaller than 1024x768 is just obnoxious to me, and I would prefer 1280x1024.

So, I'm wanting to get a 19" or 21" CRT. (I will not get an LCD screen right now, for various reasons I won't go into. Different subject really.) I spent enough in gasoline today running around town trying to find one that I could have paid for the shipping costs involved in a mail-order or online purchase. NO ONE has one, but they have lots of salespeople trying to shove the Next Best Thing in LCDs down my throat. Based on past experience I am also nervous about getting a new one, as in the "latest" technology, which is really all I can find in online stores. That "latest technology" thing has always been what's bitten me in the butt before.

While searching online this evening, I stumbled across a rather brisk market in reconditioned/refurbished monitors. I've read customer reviews, store reviews, etc., and all-in-all most purchasers seem to have come away with positive experiences. A significant savings in price is also apparent, and I could get what I want, established technology that worked for a long time before the Next Best Thing came out. For example, the highly rated Sony Trinitron monitors that cost $1500 in 2000 can be purchased refurbished for less than $200. One site I found with an exceptional seller-rating over a long period of time per several online ratings systems indicated this store sold items "as advertised" that worked very well. I want to believe that, which is the problem.

So, what I'm asking is this. Has anyone else had any experience purchasing or even using a "refurbished" monitor. Given my needs/wants/experience, what would you recommend?

[Ready4Change]

1. If considering refurbished...

$200 may be too high. Take a look at

http://www.pricewatch.com

Monitors are in the Peripherals group. I clicked the link for 19" monitors and at least the first page seemed to be refurbs, starting at $98 and up to about $135. I didn't go on to the 2nd page, so I don't really know what else is there.

In my opinion, I haven't seen much difference in reliability between new and refurb. There is a difference, usually, in the warranty. In the case of refurbs the warranty is usually much shorter, which makes it more likely that failures will happen after coverage has expired.

More of a concern, to me, is quality. New units are usually pretty consistent, while refurbs are a lot more varied. (Weak colors, bad focus, wavy or lined images, etc.) We had some of those when a former employer bought a huge batch of them, but the percentage was quite low. For the most part I've been pleased with refurbs. The quality issues are usually apparent from your first use, so if it's a problem you should be able to return it. (Depending on who you get it from. Make sure this is an option before you buy.) And the price is nice.

If money is tight I'd go for it. If I had a tad more money I'd get new, personally, just for the new toy warm fuzzy effect. If I had a lot more I'd get an LCD or Plasma, but you've said that's not something you desire.

One last thing: Some would say getting a refurb is better, as it will work just as well and will keep yet another monitor from being added to some landfill somewhere. I recon they've a point worth considering.

Good luck.

[RoyGBiv]

2. Thanks ...

The monitor I was looking at that made me make the above comparison was actually $129, $170 with shipping, and it was a 21" inch, but they have 19" monitors cheaper than this. It's the same model I've seen used by graphic artists and people who use AutoCAD. They had several different varieties of this same monitor, each with different bells and whistles. By comparison, the cheapest 21" new monitor I've found comes in at slightly under $400 and has a truly crap picture and really should be marketed as a heavy 17" because that was about the limit of the viewable area that didn't have massive distortion.

Anyway ...

My long-term goal here is building a new system over the next few months. Money isn't exactly tight, but it's not free-flowing either, and I have a certain amount budgeted. Prior to discovering that this trade existed in anything other than a fly-by-night form, I was looking at mid-range 19" monitors that would come in at about $220-$240 once shipping was included. I really *want* a 21", but the cost was prohibitive. If I decide to get the refurb 21", I could take the savings to my budget and get the high-quality power supply I'd like. (I'm tired of replacing cheap ones and dealing with voltage irregularities, and I think a good PS would be better for the long-term life of my system.)

The company I've been looking at is Accurate IT, and they rate well over a good period of time on resellerratings.com as well as other price watch/shopping sites that have review sections for the seller. Unlike other refurb sites I found, they rate the merchandise as either New-Overstock, Open-Box, or refurb with grades of A, A-, or B, and they actually define what that means. Maybe I'm too impressed by this, but it's really the first time I've seen such a thing.

The bit about preventing more landfill is also an issue I considered.

Regarding the LCDs, not that you really want to know, but the thing with them at this point, for me, is that I don't like buying technology when it's at the stage LCDs are at now, that is, too many models and not enough consistency in quality, which is rarely noticeable in the price. I could actually deal with that if finding accurate information wasn't so hard. Salespeople are worthless -- I tend to know more then the ones I encounter -- and spec sheets have developed this tendency not to list the negative aspects of the monitor, like if it has a poor contrast ratio, or a high response time, etc. Again, no consistency. I just got tired of having to do that much work trying to figure out if this or that monitor was worth it and am going to wait until the technology matures a bit and hopefully prices come down.

Anyway again ... thanks for indulging my rambling. I make decisions like these by talking them out

[Ready4Change]

3. No problem. I learn from this as well.

I think the first monitor I checked on pricewatch for you was from accurate IT, and i like their rating system as well.

My problem with LCD's is that their prices haven't slid down from specialty item to standard item yet, ie: they are still commanding premium prices. That's changing, but not rapidly for me to buy just yet. And the larger ones are still quite expensive, which makes even the larger CRTs look like a good deal.

Things are changing, though. I suspect in a couple of years most people will never even consider CRTs to be an option. Times are a'changin'.

Enjoy.

[Hokie]

4. I just bought a Samsung 19" LCD

It is so much better than a CRT that I would never go back. I ended up getting it for under 300 after a $40 rebate from Samsung.

[RoyGBiv]

5. I won't dispute you ...

A lot of people I know have LCDs and swear by them. I've built computers for people that insist on getting them, so I've used quite a few of them for brief periods, and I use one at work.

One of the monitors I had with me for about a week was supposed to be a mid-range 19" monitor. When I got the person's system put together, I turned on my system, with my cheapo CRT, and the new system and did some comparisons running identical programs. (I also installed the same graphics card in their system that I had in mine.) I won't say my monitor had a better display because it didn't. First, the LCD was larger, which was a huge bonus, and it was flat, which my monitor is not. So, just with casual viewing and using some graphic art programs, the LCD was quite a bit better. However, I fired up a couple FPS games, and that's where the LCD started to lose me.

Everything was sharper, yes, but these very slight shadows appeared, ghosts I guess is what they're called. In all honesty, it was barely noticeable and not as distracting as some hard-core gamers claim it can be, but it *was* noticeable, and after some time enjoying the bigger display playing DOOM 3, I started asking myself if I wanted to pay $200 more for a monitor that had an additional, if minor annoyance.

Like Ready4Change, I might go with an LCD once the price comes in line, and, again, when I can look at a spec sheet and tell without digging for more info elsewhere how it will perform.

I do have one other small issue with them that's actually a personal problem. I'm kinda clumsy. I don't buy expensive keyboards for this reason. I *will* have to replace them fairly frequently. What is a selling point for some people -- light weight, easy to move, etc -- is a bad thing for me. My CRT is heavy enough I can't easily knock it off, and when I trip and fall into my desk, I'm not going to destroy it. My one and only laptop and I had a very brief love affair. I destroyed the keyboard, then the monitor within a year. :-)

[Hokie]

6. I see your points

These kinds of decisions are subjective. I am not into gaming so ghosting is not an issue for me. The size and flat screen are more important. My Samsung has the DVI input. Since it did not come with a DVI cable I used it in the analog mode for a while. After I installed a DVI cable I really couldn't tell a difference. It might be important for video and gaming.

BTW, I am still waiting on my rebate check a month later. I hate rebates.

[Ready4Change]

7. I do a lot of gaming, so ghosting is an issue with me.

My understanding is that if you select them carefully, there are LCDs and Plasma PC screens that don't ghost, or don't ghost to an extent that has adverse effect. Its largely a factor of the physical screen, not of any particular manufacturer who assembled the various parts, so it is possible to get good times without paying extra.

I'd like one because I could have the screen further away from me, providing more work table space. I typically work with both papers and the computer, so there is a constant fight on desk between the papers and the keyboard and the mouse. Add 6-10 more inches between the keyboard on the screen and my life gets easier.

However, financially, its not $200 easier. Someday.

[RoyGBiv]

8. Ghosting, etc ...

This is the issue that started me getting irritated at spec sheets, advertisements, and salespeople. I'm a gamer too, and I will not live with something that makes the gaming an irritating experience. (I spent more on my mouse than I did on my printer because I wanted high performance.) A combination of factors go into making an LCD or plasma screen that doesn't ghost to where you'd notice it at all. That is, it's not just response time, although that can be a factor, especially for gamers when those response times go over 8ms. From what I've read, 16ms can be acceptable if a variety of other factors, including what you mention with the physical screen, are met, but exactly what those factors are is hard (for me) to determine. Very few of the large screens do 8ms that aren't just outrageously expensive, and on the other hand, even some 8ms monitors will ghost badly because of the way the screen is made. And it all just gets so frustrating.

Eventually I'm sure LCDs will appear that are targeted toward gamers, and what goes into making a good one for those gamers will become clear from reviews and testimonials. At the moment, it just seems to be a crap shoot.

What can also be irritating is that with any monitor of any type, knowing how it will perform really boils down to seeing it in action. Try sometime to get a salesperson to let you fire up Quake 4 or something on a store system for a demo of a monitor. Specialty stores might allow it, I suppose, but the salespeople in stores I've visited tend to blow me off when they realize I'm not just going to trust the script of their sales pitch.

And this, of course, gets me back to what I've decided to purchase. I understand the technology in this monitor I'm eying. I've seen one of that specific model in action. I'm taking a risk because of the refurb, but it's a risk I'm willing to take at this point.

If y'all are interested, I'll let you know how the experience goes. I ordered it last night, and FedEx gives an ETA of Friday. The first hurdle passed well. The site took my order and got it to FedEx in less than 24 hours, and judging from the weight of the package FedEx says it is delivering to me, it is at least something close to what I ordered...or possibly a slab of granite. :-) Just getting your merchandise shipped can be a huge issue with some of these online stores, so I'm confident so far.

[Ready4Change]

9. Definitely let us know.

Sooths my OCD tendencies to wrap a thread up with an account of the aftermath.

Plus I want to know what you decide to do with a block of granite. ;)

[RoyGBiv]

11. Update ...

THIS IS HUGE!!!!

That out of the way, I have good news and bad news. (Of course, it's bad news only to me, but anyway.)

I mentioned previously that I'm clumsy. Well, I got my slab of granite, and it was actually monitor shaped. I took out the ample padding and other shipping material and gave it a once-over. It was in good condition, clean, all the cables, and the screen protected with even more padding. And I took it out, misjudged the distance from the bottom of the monitor and my desk and *dropped* it, all 70 pounds of it, about 6 inche, one corner cracking and the face plate nearly popping off.

A long stream of expletives followed.

The monitor itself works perfectly, has a flawless screen, excellent color-depth, sharpness, etc. No issues with it at all so far. My only problem with it is I now have a cracked piece of plastic surrounding the screen.

Well, anyway, now that it is on the desk, it definitely isn't moving, and I can't lay any blame with the company. They shipped what they said they'd ship and it works as I wanted it to work. Overall I'm happy with it.

[Ready4Change]

12. Heheheh, um, er, congratulations?

Sorry to laugh at your expense. I'm glad it's still working, and duct tape is always handy?

[RoyGBiv]

14. Oh, I laughed too ...

Eventually. Kinda ironic that one reason I'm afraid to get an LCD is becaue I might damage it, so the first thing I do with the new CRT is damage it.

Anyway, it just looks a bit ugly, but the functionality is more important to me, and that seems to be fine. And I always have duct tape. :-)

[ConsAreLiars]

13. I think it's called stress-testing

Glad it passed the test.

[hobbit709]

10. Here in Austin

I just picked up a used 19-inch Sony Trinitron flat face screen monitor for $20 after my old 21 died. I had spare 17's but after looking at 21 it was a little small. Here there are several stores that sell used good equipment cheap.