Memory leak?

[soup]

Having problems connecting to the internets. Have gone around and around with tech support for the last couple of weeks - trying to figure out why the DSL connection won't 'hold' and constantly have to do the 'release', 'renew' to get it to work.

Finally, one tech had me check the comp's memory via the task manager, and declared that it won't hold because the computer doesn't have enough memory. It's not Verizon's problem, it's mine. Told me I either needed to buy more memory (which I can't afford right now), or dump some programs to free up the memory.

Out of 129520k physical memory, it says there's only about 22000k memory available.

I ruthlessly went through and uninstalled a bunch of programs :-( and did some general housecleaning (disk cleanup, clearing caches, scan disk, defrag).

Still get about the same reading in the task manager.

So I downloaded this really nifty program called Super Utilities on a 30 day free trial. It's got a disk cleaner, registry cleaner, uninstaller, memory manager and optimization, shortcut repairer, security checks, and system maintenance tools.

Ran everything through, and ended up with 63% free memory. WOOHOO!

Then, doom.

I can literally sit and watch the numbers fall. Right now, it's back down to 21%.

The only things I have open and running (that I know of) are the Zone Alarm, DU (Firefox), and an ongoing game of TextTwist - (up to 1,296,890 points! - I'm much better at anagramming words than figuring out this computer stuff).

Something is quickly 'bleeding' the memory and I just don't know what else to check or do to stop it.

Oh, for what it's worth, and if it matters - it's an older HP comp - about 4 1/2 years old. We replaced the hard drive a couple of years ago when it went out. So it's got I think 80 gigs...

Windows XP
Intel Celeron
1200MHz
1.2GHz
128 MB RAM

Everything seems to be running fine - other than it doesn't like to connect to the internets, apparently due to this huge memory bleeding problem.

--

Does anyone have any ideas on how to figure out what's happening and how to stop this?

I just hope it isn't fatal.

Apologies if I don't respond right away. Just realized it's 2:30 a.m. and I need to catch some sleep.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[ConsAreLiars]

1. Try running "What's Running"

It may look a little complex at first glance, but is an excellent and easily understood program (assuming you are running XP or 2000) and a good way to see, and control, what the computer is doing to/for you.
http://www.whatsrunning.net/whatsrunning/main.aspx

[soup]

2. Downloaded.

Thank you, ConsAreLiars. Downloaded the program and I'm looking at it now.

Opening screen tabs read:
processes 22
services 78
modules 272
IP connections 23
drivers 178
startup 0

Looks like a lot of stuff going on. Or is that about normal? I have no idea. I'll check into the program a bit more in the morning. Hopefully, there's some things that don't need to be running, and it'll clear up enough memory to get the dsl connection to work correctly.

Barring that, I checked out memory upgrades and it isn't quite as scary pricewise as I thought it was going to be.

If worse comes to worse - http://www.4allmemory.com/search/hp/pavilion.cfm?q=Hewlett-Packard+Pavilion+XT963

It's now 3:30a.m. --- darn it. I have to try to get some sleep.

Thanks again for the program suggestion.

[charlie]

3. Not sure if I buy that

I think the tech is blowing you off. I can't think of what memory might have to do with you losing your IP address, which is what's happening. I had a similar problem a year ago, the IP would get dropped if the PC went on standby and release/renew wouldn't fix it, I had to reboot. Unfortunately, I never nailed the cause, the myriad fixes that worked for others were wildly different and seemingly unconnected to the problem -- "if it's Tuesday and there's no piano lessons, then do this." I fixed it by hooking up to a router, instead of directly to the modem.

In any case, you have memory. Those 20ish megs are what's left over after you've got everything running, including your NIC, DNS cache, and whatnot. And XP is very good at managing memory, if a priority process needs RAM it'll get it, other open apps will have their RAMspace dumped to the swap, freeing memory. Things will just run slower. Your amount of RAM is piddly for XP, but you've still got to run a boatload of stuff before actually running out.

Don't bother with memory optimizers, ram boosters, and the like. They don't do anything, as you've just found out.

If you want to find out if increasing available memory fixes your problem, let off using Firefox for a while. It's a memory hog. Snag a copy of Opera and use it for a day or so, see if it makes a difference.

[soup]

8. Thanks, charlie.

I've called Verizon so many times I was droning "yes - tech support - connection problem - windows - yes - no" in my sleep.

Actually had one guy tell me we had a bad connection so he was terminating the call.

I asked the woman who told me I didn't have enough memory "my son's computer (much newer and much faster) was having the same problem, so how could lack of memory be the issue?" Ms. Snippy replied, "We're not working with your son's computer, we're working with this one and it doesn't have enough memory to hold the connection. Either dump some programs to free up the space, or add more memory."

If my son had been here, and his computer available, I'd have asked her to hold on and switched the wires out to that one.

I'm pretty sure that they'd come to the end of their collective ropes with my calling, and someone was finally smart enough to put the problem back on me so they wouldn't have to deal with it.

Funny you should mention the router. If we use ours, nothing works. The only way to connect at all is one comp, directly - and that only after sometimes repeated release/renews.

my RAM is piddly? :cry: Is that something akin to my mother wears army boots? (Just kidding.) I know 128k isn't much by today's standards. But I haven't had problems with it before this.

If I can stay connected long enough, I'll give Opera a try. But won't that add to the problem (if the memory thing is the reason this is happening)? I went so far as to uninstall Open Office, GIMP (which I hoped to learn), a couple of fractal programs, a video converter, the digital camera programs, some games I rarely played and even the printer.

I deleted a ton of music, documents, documentaries, assorted video clips, PDF docs and other stuff that I can't think of right now. I gave til it hurt and I'm still release/renewing. *sigh.

Thanks for your response and suggesting the Opera browser. I'll try it - even though I have this little voice telling me there's got to be a tweaky little setting somewhere that somehow got joggled/ jiggled/ or bumped somewhere along the way.

[charlie]

13. No, no, *stop* dumping your stuff

That tech did you a huge disfavor telling you that. Programs and data only take up HD space, they don't use memory until you run them. Some programs do start processes at startup, but most don't, and there are ways to find out which ones do. But the bottom line is that you were running your software without problems so there's no reason to delete them, and there's certainly no reason to dump documents, videos, and the like.

Yes, 128megs is a tight fit for XP. But your setup works, it's not giving you trouble, more RAM will just make it run faster. If your PC was a small shoe store, when spring sandals go on sale, you have to pull snow boots from the shelves and store them, then get sandals from the backroom and put them up. Shoe Megamart, with its acres of shelves, only needs to hang a sale sign over the sandals section. RAM is the shelf space, the HD is the backroom, the programs are shoes, and floor workers are the OS. Your small store has busier workers and it's slower to set up sales, but it manages to stay in business just fine.

[soup]

18. I feel like such an idiot.

Programs and data only take up HD space, they don't use memory until you run them.

Part of me knew that. Guess I was just so frustrated and tired of it that I went ahead and threw the sandals, sneakers AND snowboots out the back door. (Condileesa was thrilled - last seen fondling a pair of silver stilettos in the alley - murmuring 'my precious')

I tried the Opera browser with the same results - couldn't connect.
I even tried IE.

Right now I'm running Firefox with Zone Alarm disabled and the Windows firewall on instead. Not happy about it, but after disabling the ZA and enabling the other, I clicked on the Firefox, and 'bam', it was there. So far, no release/renew (knock wood).

Makes no sense. I have no idea what's going on. If it gives me problems later today, I'm thinking I'll switch to the headphones rather than using the speakers - or change the font size. That's how silly some of this seems. :crazy:

Thank you so much for your replies.

[charlie]

26. It might be ZoneAlarm, then

Here's a config you can try with ZA (DHCP request blocking seems to be an oft-encountered problem with that firewall):

http://forum.zonelabs.org/zonelabs/board/message?board.id=access&message.id=25202
http://forum.zonelabs.org/zonelabs/board/message?board.id=access&message.id=23056#M23056

(In the 1st post, substitute "cmd" for "command" in the Run box)

[charlie]

27. BTW

Your posts in this thread are a hoot. You're certainly handling this with good cheer :)

[soup]

30. charlie, you are a gem.

Did you really go look that up for me? Above and beyond, my friend. Above and beyond. Thank you.

Decided to uninstall ZA completely, redownload it and do a clean install. After using it so many years, I really don't feel comfortable without it.

I tried to follow the instructions given at the link you provided (I'm still just overwhelmed that you would take the time to find that for me), but when I clicked on 'add', the Program Files folder - literally from A (Adobe) to Z (Zone Labs) - popped up.

Thought about adding 'Online Services > refer me to more internet service providers' as a lark, but computers don't have much of a sense of humor.

After digging around a bit in Zone Alarm, I found 'Allow Outgoing DNS/DHCP in Trusted Zone on High setting' in the advanced general security section, so I checked it.

Everything seems to be working fine this morning.

Celebrating with a pot of Kona rather than the usual Folgers.
I offer a cup in gratitude :donut:

[RoyGBiv]

16. The tech was an idiot ...

You can tell her I said that, too. :-) It very well could be something on your end, but it's not the memory. For XP, 128MB is bare bones minimum, but it will function and should have no problems with broadband.

BTW, Verizon is notorious as providing the worst customer support in the industry. They are used as an example in training classes for other companies that do give a higher priority to tech support as an example of how not to be. I've even witnessed an instructor making a call to Verizon tech support with a made up problem to show how bad they are, and they are truly horrible.

That said, let me tune you in to a not-so-secrect industry secret. Tech support training is expensive, and the turnover in the call center is high. Different companies place customer support at different levels of importance, but the common denominator is that tech support by itself is usually on the low-end of distribution of resources. That is, they'll provide quality, intensive sales training that includes many different classes and is periodically updated hereas tech support training may last a few weeks and never be updated except in a call-center floor memo. To try to offset the negative fallout of this, a lot of these companies tailor the minimum specifications for the systems they will support so that the training can be boxed in and rarely changed. A broadband Internet connection will theoretically work on any system that will support a network interface. I've been able to get a 486 DX2/66 laptop with 64 megs of memory running Windows 95 to connect to broadband without problems. But, the broadband provider would not support anything below a Pentium III running Windows 98SE with 256MB of memory. By "support" they don't mean it won't work. They just mean they won't help you make it work, i.e. they won't spend the resources on training tech support people to know how to help you.

What this means is that the tech support person you talked to was probably just looking for an excuse to blow you off because she didn't know how to help, and I'd bet if you looked, you'd find that their minimum requirements are 256MB for WinXP. However, I'd also look at your service agreement. If it does *not* say that 256MB is minimum, remind them of this.

As has already been mentioned, STOP DELETING STUFF. Your memory isn't the problem, and what's stored on your hard drive is definitely not the problem. That isn't the same thing.

My first guess here of elements that could be causing the problem on your end would be one of two things: bad network card or bad DSL modem.

[soup]

19. "the tech was an idiot"

I feel so used. and yeah, I agree that they were trying to get rid of me. What makes me feel even dumber is having had this dsl for what? 4 or 5 years now - got it the minute it became available in this area. and here I am, deleting music files because a Verizon tech is trying to get rid of me and tells me that's what I should be doing.

Holy crap, next thing ya know, I'll be listening to Rush and nodding along in agreement with everything I hear. Time to dig out the straitjacket and pad the walls.

The requirements for Verizon with WinXP are 128MB (I checked). ammo. ammo. ammo.

Thanks for the lesson in tech support, and having my back. If I need to call them again (and the Eeyore in me says I probably will) I shall cite the XP requirements AND invoke your name - the phone lines will tremble in the wake of the echo. :)

[FormerDittoHead]

4. My two guesses: a bad firefox extension or malware

I've had bad experiences with firefox extensions. Adblock, for example. I'd disable them all, see if that helps. If it does, then enable them a few at a time to see which one is giving you the problem.

Malware (trojan, virus, etc) often installs itself as a process in your services.exe or svchost.exe. Today, they usually try to send spam.

It wouldn't surprise me if you got a trojan opening up dozens of sockets which might be causing your connection to fail.

One last word: I had a very similar problem with my Comcast internet. I had to reboot the modem and router 2-3x a day. Now for some reason, it's OK, and I didn't do anything...

[soup]

9. Thanks, FormerRushFan.

I've removed all the Firefox extensions, even the old ones. Going to try the Opera browser here in a little bit.

Spybot says there's nothing. The Super Utilities program I downloaded says there's nothing. The antivirus program says there's nothing. The updated this morning and rerun antivirus program says there's nothing.

I am getting 57 warnings from the anti-virus program, though, of files that could not be opened.

2601 Scanning directories
161566 Files were scanned
0 viruses and/or unwanted programs was found
0 files were deleted
0 files were repaired
0 files were moved to quarantine
0 files were renamed
6642 Archives were scanned
57 Warnings
0 Notes

Examples:

C:\hiberfil.sys
The file could not be opened!
C:\pagefile.sys
The file could not be opened!
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\NTUSER.DAT
The file could not be opened!
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\ntuser.dat.LOG
The file could not be opened!
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat
The file could not be opened!
C:\Documents and Settings\LocalService\Local Settings\Application Data\Microsoft\Windows\UsrClass.dat.LOG
The file could not be opened!

I don't know if that means anything or not. It's so frustrating not having a clue.

I need to spend some with the program 'What's Running' that ConsAreLiars suggested. At the least it will feel like I'm 'doing something'.

re: Comcast - had the same thing happen with this for one whole day in the midst of all the aggravation - no problems. Connect, disconnect, reconnect, just humming along - then of a sudden, back to fahgeddaboudit.

Thank you for your response, I really appreciate the help. Maybe somewhere in here is the one thing that will make it work again.

[bemildred]

5. A noisy wire will do it.

I had troubles with dropped sync for a couple years, until I got a phone tech to check and fix the outside wire, which was noisy, and ran a direct line from the network box on the back of the house to my DSL modem, which made sure I was not getting interference inside. Can't say if that's your problem, but I don't believe it's got anything to do with memory.

[soup]

10. Hey, bemildred. Thanks for responding. Wires...

hmm. They had to come out after one of the hurricanes last summer and replace the phone line from the pole to the house because a tree branch snapped it. So it should be good to go. But, then again, I did have the one tech hang up on me because he said we had a bad connection and he couldn't hear me. (Not that I believed him... maybe I should have.) Funny that the next person, when I called right back, didn't seem to have any problem - other than, 'Oh, no. It's that woman again. Why me?'

I am getting the distinct feeling that I didn't need to delete all of those applications. It didn't seem to make a whit of difference in available memory and now especially because it doesn't seem to be just me who is thinking that they may have just said that to get rid of me.

Thank you for your response. You had problems for a couple of YEARS? and Here I am going bonkers during and after just 2 weeks. I feel like Verushka? in Willy Wonka - 'I want it and I want it NOW!' - Hey! I could try stomping my foot. I might just joggle something and it'll all be good to go again.

[WhollyHeretic]

6. That's crap. Too little memory wouldn't cause you to have to

do a release/renew constantly. You could use some more RAM in your computer but it's not needed. Your memory usage is fine as far as XP goes, mine is using around 140MB when it first boots up. When you do the release/renew are you getting the same IP address? You also might try to get someone with a laptop over and see if they can connect.

[soup]

11. I'm really beginning to believe it's crap

since that seems to be the general consensus here - and that they were trying to put the problem back on me just to get me to shut up and quit calling.

But, then again - I gave it a go by cleaning and leaning this thing - because I don't know a thing about comps and 'just in case'.

About the release/renew. Yes, I'm getting the same IP address every time. Is that important?

And oddly, when I check the network connections in control panel, it's showing I'm connected, and no problems. Also, the little comp-to-comp with exclamation point icon that shows down in the taskbar by the clock only appears and flashes 'limited or no connection' after I do the release, then goes away after renew. It's the only time it appears.

My son's computer - much newer and faster than this one - won't connect from this location, either.

So frustrating. Am going to try running Opera and check out the 'What's Running' program.

Thanks for your response. I love that you called it 'crap'. :)
Could very well be exactly what it is.

ARGH. Lost the connection again when I hit Post... release/renew, try again. This is getting really old.

[WhollyHeretic]

15. If it happens with another computer then it is something outside your

computer.

If you go to the command prompt and type in ipconfig /all and at the bottom of it there will be two listings:

Lease Obtained....
Lease Expires.....

What are the dates and times listed?

[soup]

20. leases

I'm afraid to open anything else right now since it's working, so I can't give you specifics - but it reads in 24 hour periods.

Obtained is the time it was renewed and Expires is 24 hours later.

Is this normal?

[WhollyHeretic]

23. That should be fine.

I really think it's the DSL modem. Have you turned off power to the modem and restarted since the problem started? You could try that if you haven't already, otherwise you should get them to send you a new modem or send someone out because the problem is not your computer.

[soup]

24. Repeatedly.

That's one of the things I do before I even call for tech support. a pre-emptive 'shut everything down and restart'.

It's usually the first thing they want me to try, so rather than waste the time while on the phone, I'll do it before I call.

In the past, there have been times that it's worked and I've been able to avoid calling.

--

This morning one of the things I tried was (reluctantly) switching off Zone Alarm and running with the windows firewall. Right now, it's working like a charm. No connection problems at all.

Don't know if that's what did it or not. If it keeps running with the Zone Alarm disabled, I'm thinking I'll delete it,re-download it and do a clean install - maybe something went haywire there? even though I've used it forever.

Gotta tell ya GreenJ - this is making me crazier than I already was.

and I want to thank you all so much for your patience and responses. Y'all are truly the best.

[CBGLuthier]

7. Very good chance you have spyware, malware

128 meg is a bit light for XP. If you can get it to 512 MB XP will run a lot better.

But it still should work.

Don't know what you are doing for "spyware" but you may want to download this and give the trial version a run and see what it finds on your computer.

http://www.ewido.net/en/

You might also try connecting in "safe mode with networking" to see if that makes a difference on the connectivity issue.

[soup]

12. I'm using Spybot

Scans are coming back clean.

I'll try your suggested software, though. I'm willing to try almost anything at this point.

and Yes, the 128MB probably needs to be upgraded. I do expect quite a bit from this poor old thing. Like I said above, it isn't as scary price-wise as I thought it was going to be, so it's probably just generally a good idea.

Don't be surprised if you see a 'trying to install more memory - help please!' post from me sometime in the future. I am a dolt.

Safe Mode... Is that the one in the Program's menu? If so, OK. Couldn't hurt and easy enough to try.

Thank you for your help. I do really appreciate all the responses and suggestions.

[Jersey Devil]

14. 128k memory is simply not enough to run xp

256 is bare minimum imo.

[soup]

21. Apparently there is room to upgrade the memory

and after reading through this thread and hearing that sentiment repeatedly, it'd probably be a good idea.

I bookmarked this page - which says this comp is upgradable to 512MB:
http://www.4allmemory.com/search/hp/pavilion.cfm?q=Hewlett-Packard+Pavilion+XT963


Now comes my stupid questions of the day. (brace yourself)

If I get the 256MB one, do I install it in the original 128 spot, or install it in the open slot? If I put it in the original spot, does that make the 256MB one the default?

Is it an either/or setup do they work in conjunction?

If I add the 256, does it mean I have 384MB RAM to work with? In which case, would it make sense to get 2 of the 256's, and replace the original, too - and end up with 512?

I'm thinking cost here, too. $55 is much easier to break loose than $110.

and the biggest most important question - if I do this will I have to reformat the whole system? or is it recognized as a 'new hardware found' sort of thing?

soup <--- showing her complete ignorance about computers

[Jazzgirl]

28. If you can afford it, replace the 128 meg stick with

two 256 meg sticks. You will be happy.

JG

[soup]

31. Thanks, Jazzgirl.

Finding it a bit hard to justify spending 110$ on this old machine, but I am going to order and add one 256MB.

Sort of reminds me of driving an older car that's been paid off, but is dollar and diming the bank account empty with one after the other repairs to keep it on the road.

[WhollyHeretic]

29. You could put a 256 in an empty slot. That would give you great

improvement over what you have now. 384MB is plenty for most users unless you're playing a lot of games or using other memory intensive programs.

[soup]

32. Going to try it.

I'm not a gamer, but my son is - Which is why we bought him the new computer, I took this hand-me-down, and we parked the 500MHZ 'antique' I had before. Amazing how quickly these things become obsolete.

Makes me laugh when I think about my first comp. 100MHZ!, 1G hd!, 28.8 modem!, 15" monitor! Can't remember the name of the original Windows version - but we upgraded it to Windows 95! woohoo! - top of the line - cutting edge - blazing...

Thank you for your help here. I really appreciate the time you've taken.

[Ready4Change]

17. How are your neighbors doing?

Are they using Verizon? Are they running ok, or having problems?

Could be there's a problem outside your house. Might be affecting them, too.

[soup]

22. Wish I'd seen your post last night-

Didn't even think to ask when they were over. I've become so crazed and obsessed with this problem that I took a sanity break.

I know whatever they use, our nephew is able to catch (is that the right word?) their wireless connection on his cell phone to check his bank account online. (which they know about and think is cool)

technology...

my head spins - as the unset clock on the stereo system blinks 4:23 right now - at 11:51.

[Ready4Change]

25. Well, they have a connection then.

The question is whether they are using Verizon or some other service.

BTW, I'm still finding and reseting various clocks in the house, too. :)