owls feasting on cats and pomeranian

[medeak]

Have two enormous great horned owls roosting in back yard... they are beautiful and hoot like clockwork.

Lost one cat already (albeit feral)

We did the unthinkable and shot one yesterday 3 times with bb gun...only on third shot did it leave roost. We don't want to harm them and worried it may have been injured.

any ideas on ridding ourselves of them?

[Lorien]

1. Sorry, but shooting them with bb guns IS unthinkable and inhumane

Keep your pets indoors if they concern you. Pets left outside are easily killed by cars, disease, feral dogs and cats, coyotes,anti-freeze and kids with bb guns. Let the wildlife live; it's their country too.

[amazona]

6. shooting owls is also a federal offense

Hoo boy. Do not shoot the Great Horned Owls any more. If they are causing a problem, please notify Fish and Wildlife and see what they recommend. "The tiger of the air" is a very powerful bird, and if you piss it off, you could be in some danger. But if you succeed in actually killing it, you can be subject to fine as much as $20,000.

Additionally, be aware that Great Horned Owl is the only predator of skunks.

It is right and proper for Great Horned Owls to control populations of feral cats and skunks.

Get rid of the owl, and next thing you know you may have some interestingly scented feral cats, and dogs, and other livestock.

Great Horned Owls should be encouraged, not discouraged. Ask anyone who has ever had the "pleasure" of a skunk family moving in under their home!

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[Minimus]

2. I know your pets are precious to you and protecting them is natural

but please check with your local US Fish and Wildlife office about ways to deter. Many birds are protected and shooting them is not the answer.

In my area it is nesting season for the great horned, I would hate to think a mother was killed or injured and now her young are left alone.

As a birder and a pet lover I hope you find a solution.

[Catchawave]

3. No pet should be left outside unsupervised....

...believe me, it's also not worth the felony you're committing on a protected species either. Please check your "gunslinging wildlife" laws in your community...thanks!

[medeak]

4. this is a small fenced back yard people!

jesus...

thanks for no help whatsoever! We don't want to use the bb gun again..(set on lowest power) but we have TWO owls...the one hasn't returned yet....fingers crossed.

Yes..it would be ideal if I could accompany my little dog out into fenced backyard while I'm at work..and also in middle of night when he feels the urge to tinkle....but this is reality.

FELONY? Protected species? You obviously don't live in my part of the barren tundra.

edited to say...should have made point that both owls were facing dog door...and 14 lb dog is using living room as toilet for now as terrified. (can't blame him) This is not a situation where animals are left in the fenced back yard...but they need to piss and poo daily!

[amazona]

8. if your tundra is in the United States...

...yes, it is a federal offense to shoot the owl. Period. End of sentence. People have been fined a great deal of money for killing them. Since ignorance of the law is no excuse if someone who doesn't like you or your activities reports you, it is best to be aware of the law.

Owls come in pairs, especially when nesting. They are not known to be able to reproduce by division, so I don't know why it is shocking that there are two of them. It sounds like you may have already harmed or killed the mate. Best not to share that information with law or game enforcement, since you can't undo what is done.

I have to repeat, contact Fish and Wildlife. Great Horned Owls are very powerful birds. They have caused serious injury. You don't want to be shooting a bird, injure it, then run out and try to "rescue" it, and end up losing an eye. It has happened with nesting owls and to persons with considerable more experience with owls than any of us here happen to possess. If you are in a hazardous situation with these birds, you need expert help in removing them.

Some problems can't be solved over the internet. You need an expert in wildlife control on the scene. Call Fish and Wildlife. And if the ranger is not in the office when you call, call back. If you are not safe with the owls where they are, then you need to get help with the project of removing them.

For future reference, ALL birds of prey are protected species in the United States.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[smbolisnch]

12. Shooting a protected species is sick, barren tundra or not.

As everyone else has already said, you need to put away your bb gun and call the wildlife league or similar to help relocate the animal.

You pets shouldn't be left out alone anyway, and if it is just to pee/poop then why not walk them on a leash until this is resolved?

If there are a lot of deer in my yard, I won't just hook my dogs up on their leash and let them out for 10 minutes, I put them on a leash, put on my shoes and walk them myself. Snow, rain or sunshine. That's my solution and works quite well.

Please, call someone that knows what they are doing....the bird may be hurt and suffering now.

[medeak]

15. the deer jump over the fence eh?

we have that problem as well.. but no threat to dogs just garden. Have that fenced on the top.

[Lorien]

5. Try this:

Product description:
These open-air fully enclosed walkways allow indoor cats to enjoy the outdoors while keeping them in view and shaded. These interchangeable, connecting walkways and rooms can be configured to fit the particular shape of your yard, deck, or balcony, providing ample space for your pet’s exercise. The sections can be easily moved, disassembled, stored flat, and re-built. The durable rip-stop nylon netting and metal wickets are weather resistant, portable, and sturdy. Each enclosure has removable door panels that tie shut, or open to connect to other components—or even to abut a pet door. Winner of “Best New Product” award from Pet Age and an “Editor’s Choice” award from Cat Fancy. 30% taller than the original catwalk (above); stakes into the ground. Does not connect to other catwalk items. 10' long. 39" H x 23" W.

http://amos.shop.com/amos/cc/pcd/10911423/prd/16776361/ccsyn/260

my mother made something similar out of chicken wire for her sheltie to use when she was away at work (the sheltie could scale any fence, so a top was needed for her run). My friend who owns meerkats also has made something similar out of wire mesh. The hawks from nearby Joshua tree national monument have tried, but they've never scratched a single meerkat.

[Longhorn]

10. Joshua Tree National Park

I've been there! When my son was stationed at 29 Palms, my husband and I visited and hiked there. Beautiful country, especially in April. We hiked to 49 Palms Oasis and drove all the way through the park on the 4-wheel-drive-only trail -- they could have made an SUV commercial from that trip when sometimes the "road" was a pile of boulders! If you haven't been to the park, you must go!

[Lorien]

11. I haven't been

I always visit my friend and her meerkats, but I've never been to the park. Her home overlooks it, and it certainly seems quite beautiful.

I'll take your suggestion and check it out next time. :hi:

[medeak]

25. thank you sweet person

see post #24..you're the only one to help.

Am asking friend back for puppy pen I lent her and hopefully can construct some sort of enclosure with cover.

My 90 yr old Dad came up with "rent a pit bull" ;-)

[Phentex]

30. well I was just reading down the thread but my first thought was

some type of run for the dogs. It could be fairly large with screening to keep out any intruders.

Good luck! This must be frustrating!

[RadicalMom]

35. Lots of pit bulls eat cats. It would help if you use your doggie pen, and

you can put one of those covers that they sell for use in your yard over a picnic table. They go up sort of like a tent, really quite easily, and come in different sizes, and in either a mesh screen or solid canvas, depending on whether you want to also provide rain and hot sun shelter. The sides are open, but if it's going over a fenced area, you can match your fence height with the bottom of the overhang of the cover. The biggest problem with owls (we have them, too) is if they can see the target and a safe way to get at it. I don't think it matters if the protected area is particularly strong, mainly that it obscure your animals from view. Owls will go after dogs or cats, or anything else outside that they think is small enough to grab - generally abything under 25 lbs. or so is at risk, and at any time of day, and especiallyas you get close to dusk. I used to think you'd be safe in the day, because they are nocturnal, but they don't seem to read the instruction book. My mom had to remove her dog door, as the owls were dive bombing even her empty patio, looking for her 35 lb. dogs. You can't scare them away and feel that you're any safer. So, until you build your enclosure, I'd try putting down "Wee Wee Pads," or similar products in the house next to the door where your dog usually goes out. They have an attractant in them, which may give him the idea. The cat will have to stay in with a litter box util you get the safe area perfected.

[Vektor]

50. I'm not sure that's fair...

No disrespect, RadicalMom, but pit bulls get a bad rap which is largely undeserved. They are really no different than any other breed, with the exception that their physical strength and impressive appearance makes them attractive to unsavory humans who are abusive and train them to misbehave. Their natural personality is clownish, hyper, funny and friendly. I have a 3-year-old pit bull whom I adopted from a shelter, and she lives with four cats, two of whom came to us as kittens when she was already an adult. All live in harmony. My sister has an adult male pit bull who lives with multiple cats, another dog, and two kids. He is a total lamb.

I think any breed of dog can be ill-behaved, and any breed can be great - it's all in how you raise them. The most aggressive dog I ever had was a mongrel, lab and Dalmatian mix. We were able to socialize her out of it, but she required some work. I have owned dogs and cats together all my life, and by far, the most well adjusted loving dogs I have had have been my pit bulls.

They're not bad....they're just mistreated and misused far too much.

[LDS Jock]

52. I agree.. the pit bulls get the blame the owners should get

A lot of breeds can be dangerous if not brought up properly.

[Vektor]

54. Thanks, and true...

It just saddens me SO much that there is such a negative and menacing stereotype associated with pit-bulls. With the exception of the ones raised and abused by thugs, they are such a loyal, sweet breed. I feel like I am forever having to explain to passerby that my dog is not dangerous...and my god, I am a professional young woman who lives in the suburbs...yet the stereotype indicates that only drug dealers and hoodlums have these dogs. I really just wanted a friendly, energetic, medium sized dog that could go running with me - with short hair that was easy to care for. This is the perfect breed for my needs.

Petey the Pup on the Little Rascals was a pit-bull, BTW. And a very cute one at that.

Besides, what's not to love about my baby?

Does this look like the face of a killer?



She was also featured on sorryeverybody.com:

/

[RadicalMom]

55. I personally knew the pit bulls that I was referring to, and their owners.

The pit bulls lived much of their time in their fenced back yard in the Hollywood Hills. Whenever a cat would enter that yard, the pit bulls would tear after them, ripping them to pieces, tearing their heads off, etc. This was told to us by their owners. This was a client, not a well-known friend, and I didn't see them again after that, so I was in no position to know if the situation ever improved. But they told us many stories along this line at the time we visited there. We watched as the pit bulls crowded around the patio door to the living room, watching constantly for the indoor cats. When they would see one of them in the house, they would go into a truly crazed frenzy, barking and snarling at the cat, banging hard on the glass as they lunged at them time and again, leaving slobber all over the doors. Thehy were not underfed, so that wasn't the cause. I'd never seen anything quite like it, and I've been an animal person for a long time. I know pit bulls have gotten an undeserved bad rap many times, but it is not without any cause. I have known and rescued several over the years, and the reason I took the chance of rescuing them(and this goes for any breed that I rescue)is that the dogs seemed trustable, showing no signs that I felt would endanger me as a rescuer. They were just fine and very nice dogs. Based on my experience, and other stories I have heard from other pit bull owners I have known, I would not reccommend to the poster that she get a pit bull, as her grandfather(I believe it was) had jokingly suggested. I'm glad your pit bull worked out for you. You'll probably never have a problem.

[Vektor]

56. How horrible!

That is sick. I wonder if these dogs hadn't been taught to fight other dogs, either by the current or previous owners. If that is the case, a lot of times the sick bastards that participate in this form of abuse will throw smaller animals in to the ring to bait the dogs into fighting, thus making them highly aggressive toward smaller animals thereafter, unless reconditioned by a highly capable professional trainer, like for instance, Ceaser Millan from National Geographic!

These people ought to be punished to the fullest extent the law allows, and then some. I really cannot think of a punishment that isn't too kind.

I can't tell you how much this sort of thing breaks my heart, and at the same time, enrages me.

Oh, and I agree, I'd never encourage someone to get a dog just as a means to menace other animals. I think the Dept. of Fish and Game better equipped to handle this...

[RadicalMom]

59. This incident occurred about twenty years ago,...

In my younger more timid days. If it were now, I probably would suggest some different ways of handling their situation, and then go straight to Animal Control to report them. Yikes, I can still remember every detail of the animals, to the extent that I've forgotten the details of the design project I was trying to land. "Cats! Let's Eat Cats!" they kept saying, I swear. The owners were well-off Hollywood-fringe types. I didn't see anything there that made me think they were fighting dogs. No wounds, no place to train them in the sloping hillside property. I just wished the owners were cats for about fifteen minutes, and outside with their dogs. This was the first time I ever saw one of those signs that says, "Never mind the dogs, beware of my the owners!" with a picture of a large handgun pointed at you. I didn't accept the project, I know that.

[Vektor]

62. So it's safe to assume...

Those dogs have long since died of natural causes.
Their reign of terror has ended.
Let's hope the owners' has too! :-)

[OnionPatch]

58. So right

my pit bull loves all animals as friends, including cats. She's a sweet as you could want a dog to be.

[Vektor]

63. Mine too....

and MAN is she a looker!

[Lorien]

7. Bird scare devices:

http://web.birdbarrier.com/BirdBarrier/Site%20Pages/ScareHowTo.htm

[theoceansnerves]

9. you don't want to harm them..

yet you shot them? okay...

[medeak]

14. try not to piss me off

I'm genuinely asking for help here.

[LDS Jock]

16. are you going to turn the bb gun on him now?

[medeak]

13. maybe this will work

and yes...found out they are federally protected but it's possible told today to get deprivation tag. (not easy to get and not a choice for us)

Found the following and will try this.

http://www.enaturalist.org/topic.htm?topic_ID=32&mode=qr

already have spotlights on motion sensor and can program more facing up into tree.

Will start tonight shining powerful beam into face.

They were here last year (they are courting right now) and didn't bother (never swooped into yard) us until 100 lb golden retriever died at xmas.

edited to say we live a block from Indian reservation and am told they believe owls to be demons. Ironically they can probably kill as many as they want.

[semillama]

22. What's this crack about indians?

Native Americans have to apply for religious exemptions to take birds of prey.

What problem do you have with them?

You need to contact Fish and Wildlife ASAP before you really get into trouble. There are plenty of ways to drive off predatory birds without resorting to injuring or killing the animals. These birds have as much right as your pets to exist, and they are just doing what they are supposed to be doing - hunting small prey.

Perhaps you could get some recordings of blue jay alarm calls and keep playing them. That may attract crows and blue jays, which will mob owls whenever they see them, and it would drive them off. Just playing crow and jay calls may be enough to convince the owls to find easier hunting.

[medeak]

23. no crack about Indians

found out this am the Indians can't even kill them for religious purposes and rely on feds to pick up dead raptors for feathers out of west coast headquarters in Oregon.

We don't have jays here...definitely we live in opposite poles

[semillama]

29. sorry

but your comment about the indians down the road sounded like the type of thing I hear from people that believe Indians get to do all sorts of things other Americans can't and have it easy.

You live in Oregon and you don't have jays? Surely you have Stellar's Jays? You have crows, they're just as good. Try the recordings.

[medeak]

31. no worries

no I don't live in Oregon..wish I did as that's where my son is.

State Game dude told me that's where feathers are released for west coast.

Have great respect for Indians and especially their belief systems. Made home visits to three reservations in remote areas for health care and always was an adventure. One old medicine man would stop self and social workers in driveway if any one of us was having our monthly cycle..."white woman's poison" We could never figure out how he knew...we bathed for gawd's sake!

95 yr old Shoshone I visited monthly who seemed to be comatose would rise up and look right in my eyes and speak native language. His daughter was always amazed and would translate the most moving verbage to me. She would pick pine nuts for me every fall..miss him.
We made a "connection" even tho there was language barrier. A friend here on DU is grant writer for tribes here. We are saddened to see what has happened to those living on reservation in town...

sorry to be self-indulgent here..but you reminded me of fond memories. Am calming down re owls. Will just have to be very careful..just hope the indians are wrong about bad luck?

[Maru Kitteh]

33. Touching story,

But Indians are from India. NATIVE AMERICANS are the indigenous people of this continent, America.


Just wee peeve.

[medeak]

42. why pray tell

do the "native americans" next door have all their signs saying "Indian tribal headquarters"?

[RadicalMom]

36. Just in case you didn't catch it in my other post, daytime isn't safe

either. They would divebomb at my mom's in the middle of the day, and didn't live in her yard, so don't count on the lights, they may not even stop nesting.

[medeak]

38. I found that out too! n/t

[Fleurs du Mal]

17. Indeed, unthinkable

Serious felony with the MTBA and all. You need to keep you animals in dusk to dawn during hunting hours. Dogs are easily capable of not needing to go out during that time if trained properly. Feral cats?! Honestly, they are food items like any rabbit. If you absolutely must go out you'll simply have to accompany them and make a lot of noise.

Killing, poisoning, or otherwise injuring birds of prey deserves no sympathy.

[scarlet_owl]

18. Harming an owl is not only cruel, it's illegal.

Get in contact with your fish and wildlife department.

[curse10]

19. yes, that is unthinkable

I'm beside myself with disgust right now.

[Stepup2]

20. its been said but here

is my two cents... feral cats kill millions of birds each year. The birds are having a hard enough time surviving with the constant loss of habitiat.

I love cats, but perhaps this is mother natures way of sorting things out...

[RebelOne]

21. Why don't you just keep your cats indoors.

In my opinion, there was no justification for shooting that owl.

[medeak]

24. talked to Wildlife and I'm screwed...other owl is back as well

they are cute and hooked up on same branch now so definitely courting is over.

Dept of Wildlife guy was truly sympathetic and alarmed for us this am.... said one pair has been roosting for a decade in same tree three blocks away.

We have 3 1/2 feet of snow...he said they are definitely looking for my dog. The only way we can get their attention is when dog is out...unfortunately he doesn't bark but cries like he's in distress and their eyes pop open and snap to attention.

You are all right...there's nothing I can do... the light didn't work last night as obviously the second one returned to help out?

Wildlife fellow said they would probably just move to top of my roof and then I'd be really screwed.

THANK YOU LORIEN!!!!!...you were the only one trying to help me. Dept of Wildlife is sending me pamplets which basically say the same as you.

By the way...posted on holistic pet board as well and I have to say as much as I love DU for political things..garnered much more sympathy and info than here. Calls were made etc...really great people...not judgemental in any way.

After losing our beloved 13 yr old dog just weeks ago we are terrified of losing only pet left (feral cat was not a pet obviously)
Little guy is going to work with me today...don't know what else to do.. Wish me luck someone who's nice out there..aparently just one more month of this....until next year.

[scarlet_owl]

26. You might have gotten more sympathy had you not shot

the owl.

[Minimus]

37. I'm glad the other owl came back to at least show it is okay.

I know you caught a lot of flack about the shooting but now we know the owl survived, which is good news. I wasn't judging you I just wanted to express my concern and hoped you could find a better solution.

Seems you're on the right track now.

Also, I am very sorry to hear about your 13 yo dog. I recently had to put my 13 yo dog to sleep and it about killed me, I still miss him terribly.

Take care and good luck.

[medeak]

41. so sorry for you

It's such a horrible loss.. I keep reaching to pet her giant golden head as it was always next to me.

We were good mommies for 13 yrs eh?

[InvisibleTouch]

27. If another animal or person came after one of my pets...

...I would protect them by whatever means necessary. I would try my best not to hurt the other animal, and I would never go out of my way to harm a wild animal because it might become a threat - but if there was an immediate conflict and it came down to a member of my family vs. a non-member of my family, there's only one choice I could make. You can't always prepare for every contingency. At the same time it's my responsibility to provide my animals with a secure enclosure. Definitely go out with your Pom while the owls are still roosting. And, I wonder if there's some noisemaker device or recording that could be played to scare the owls off? Or direct a bright spotlight at their roost? As long as they're hoping for easy prey, they're going to be hard to dislodge - unless the neighborhood is made unpleasant enough for them that they look for easier pickings elsewhere. Wild animals are on a tight energy budget, and hunting is all about cost-vs-benefit. If the costs start to outweigh the potential benefits, predators will move on....

[medeak]

28. Pomeranian is already dead

a friend's...

thanks for understanding. In no way did we want to harm owl..just scare and that didn't even work.

Lights didn't have any affect last night and we've tried all sorts of noise.

Am left with 1 yr wooskissfacelapdog cavalier king charles spaniel that has no street smarts at all. Cat is smart and doesn't leave wall of house when going out pet door..after finding feral cat remains in driveway think he knows.

only thing is to make some sort of enclosure.. don't even feel confident re taking dog out on leash. It's incredibly eerie as owls are completely silent when diving down and have no fear of us.

Am wondering how "free range chicken and egg" farmers cope?

[Lorien]

32. Actually, many farmers use a wire enclosure

that they move around the property. You might call your local feed store and ask about them (pre-made ones could be cheap, and less trouble than making one yourself). You could attach the catwalk to one of those, Perhaps.

Another idea; maybe placing two fake plastic owls on your property would freak the live ones out. Predators don't like to share territory with other predators. If you could call a local raptor center, they might be able to weigh in on this.

[medeak]

40. that's a great idea!

talked with raptor lady yesterday who rehabs them (we are remote and are one of largest raptor areas in US) and she didn't even come up with the fake owl idea. You are so smart! Thanks!

Was given so many pens yesterday by friends I think will be ok...but great idea. Have seen what you're speaking of at stockman's supply.

Was also told that worst thing you can do is put out bird feeders. Next door neighbors are worst culprits (wife is pres of wildlife org) and just enthralled with the owls. edited to say she ran for office as repug.. no logic there?

[RebelOne]

34. Your logic does not make sense to me.

You did not want to harm the owls? Yet you shot at them with a bb gun? What did you think was going to happen if you hit them? I can think of other ways to get rid of them.

For instance, there are companies that specialize in animal control. They will remove pests, such as raccoons, possums, squirrels, birds, snakes, etc. Why don't you just look in your phone book under Pest Control? I would have tried that option first.

[medeak]

39. very funny

think I made it clear here.. air rifle was on lowest power and it was meant to scare not harm... and obviously it wasn't injured in any way. Admitted to game dude what we did and he wasn't concerned.

(Actually trying to get even with husband for trying to convince dmv to give me driving test when I was three days late renewing license last week)

We live 300 miles from a city. No yellow pages for pest control or much else.

[Stepup2]

43. That far out in the country

I'll bet owls aren't the only predator your pets could encounter. Maybe leashes for your pets with you attached to the other end are the answer.

[medeak]

44. Success!

was unable to find owl decoys but had scarecrow left over from Halloween and we redressed it in neon orange hunter's gear.

Maybe they'll return but it's been nearly 36 hours...

[LDS Jock]

45. just keep the gun loaded and ready in case

[medeak]

46. no worries

It's always loaded in case of mormon missionaries lusting for....

on second thought...edited that remark.

[SoCalDem]

48. You could also buy some posts, and make a "roof" with chicken wire

..If it's enclosed, the owls will crash into it when they "swoop down"..The doggie will still be scared, but he won't be "lunch"..

After a while, the owls will probably move on to "better" hunting grounds ...

In the meantime, you might have tpo go the "newspapers" rooute and confine the doggie to an area like the kitchen (tiled floors) or bathroom.. He might be upset, but he'll be alive :)


Maybe a litter box in the garage woould be a better plan for the kitties (if you have any survivors :cry:

[medeak]

60. SCARECROW WORKED PEOPLE!!!!!

[medeak]

47. ask me anything.....you can even use electric shock

Just received papers from state game dept on how to rid oneself of hawks and owls. (most agressive great horned owls and goshawk - Canada)

Holy crap.. for all of those who gave me such heat over trying to scare with air rifle...

10 guage shotgun is legal with permit for deprivation...electric shock was the big "shocker" (wired to poles they sit on...instructions included) ... have detailed drawings for traps (with nooses yet)

Thankfully the scarecrow is working for now....although they recommend I move it regularly in conjuction with "pyrotechnics"

[Renew Deal]

49. Get a bigger gun

:evilgrin:

[LDS Jock]

53. you deserve this

:spank:

[Vektor]

51. Shooting at them is not recommended.

Call the department of fish and game to deal with this situation.

[MichaelHarris]

57. buy more cats

[medeak]

61. SCARECROW WORKED PEOPLE!!!

It's over ok? see way above..

This thread just won't stop...it's over I posted way above...

scarecrow dressed in neon orange...they are gone. Didn't think it would work but it did.

[LDS Jock]

64. maybe some glue traps

I understand they can trap more than just mice.

[Moderator]

65. Locking since problem seems to be solved