Can I feed Einstein......

[serryjw]

soy milk...he is not handling cow milk well at 16?

[Lorien]

1. What kind of pet is Einstein?

Most dogs and cats don't do well on cow milk at any age. There's a drink called "cat sip" for cats that's formulated so it's more digestable than milk.

[serryjw]

2. You may think he's a cat......

but he doesn't !

[Lorien]

3. Cute pic!

You might ask Elad in the Vegetarian forum; I'm told that he knows all things relating to vegetables and pets.

[China_cat]

4. Cats can't be made into vegetarians.

They are obligate carnivores who get absolutely NO nutrition from non-meat sources. Trying to put them onto a vegetarian diet will cause them to go blind...not long before they die.

[sleepyhead]

5. And they don't really need milk.

Many cats are lactose-intolerant, especially as they age. Perhaps there is another treat you can give him instead?

[Rhiannon12866]

8. Check out my post #7.

This article suggests that many cats are lactose intolerant and recommends "Cat's Sip," a milk substitute that can be found in pet stores.:-)

[Lorien]

6. Well, they must have meat, yes, but they also need

some veggies. When cats in the wild eat their prey, they also eat the contents of their stomachs for additional nutrition. Most cats will also do a bit of grazing, and indoor only cats must be fed some vegetable matter or they'll try to eat household plants-many of which are dangerous.An all protein diet will overwork the kidneys. I just got a "health boost" mix for cats called Ultramix; it's made of dried bananas, apples, cranberries, blueberries, papaya and mango with a touch of salmon and chicken liver powder. My cat Puck is insane for the stuff! She snacks on banana chips as happily as she eats chicken-of course she doesn't get too much, because too much would lead to diabetes. Everything in moderation!

[China_cat]

9. Yes, cats develop a taste

for things other than meat but THEY GET -NO- NUTRITION FROM IT. It fills their stomachs and tastes good but that's all. They do NOT 'need' it. The only nutrition they get is from the meat.

Dry foods with all the grains are highly implicated in the rise of feline diabetes at younger and younger ages. Vegetarian diets have been shown to cause such severe malnutrition that the cat doesn't survive, going blind first from the lack of taurine.

[sleepyhead]

10. That's right - dry foods are a definite no-no for cats.

Way too high in carbohydrates. There are so many good quality canned foods on the market now that there is no reason to feed any cat dry food. We are seeing a sharp rise in feline diabetes these days, and an even sharper rise in morbid obesity, which is a strain on the heart, bones, and joints. I personally am also noticing that the cats I see that eat dry food exclusively do not seem to have good hair coats - the fur seems duller, sheds more easily, and has more seborrhea (dandruff) than those of cats that eat canned food.

[China_cat]

11. The hardest part of finding this out

was having a second cat develop diabetes...2 out of 4 brothers. I'm keeping a close eye on the other 2 but diets have changed drastically around here.

[kslib]

12. Well, there are one or two reasons.

Dry food helps "brush" a cat's teeth, and for cats who don't or can't be tooth brushed, this is an important step in dental health. Also, canned food tends to be higher in fat content, and for a cat with hypothyroid, or even an older cat who can't or won't get more exercise (even with owner intervention), then dry food can help keep kitty fit and healthy.

I do agree that canned food plays a very important, even vital, role in keeping our companions hydrated and healthy especially when properly given in addition to an overall healthy diet (I feed mine canned twice a day, along with dry food offered all day long in measured quantities), and also that vegetarian diets are NOT for kitties. However, people don't NEED a lot of things that we eat, but once in a while we like to treat ourselves. Perhaps the OP was wanting to treat her kitty to the occasional milk treat, and CatSip is a great way to give a little "dessert" on those special occassions, or just whenever. Just like people, if we indulge our pets in special treats, it's important to cut down on other food to make up the calorie difference, and it's important to make them TREATS not diet.

By the way, Primary Seborrhea is a skin disease, and seborrhea sicca is dandruff. I don't think that Primary Seborrhea can be caused or cured by diet alone, but I could be mistaken.

Just my 2 cents!

:hi:

[China_cat]

15. One of the problems

you see with diabetic cats is the amount of dandruff and sometimes an oily feeling coat. As you get the blood sugar under control, the dandruff goes away and the coat gets a lot better.

[sleepyhead]

18. Yes, canned foods are higher in fat.

But that is what cats need. I had the good fortune to speak with Dr. Deb Greco, who has done a lot of the nutritional research about just this subject, and she feels very strongly that the higher fat and protein levels are just what cats have evolved to eat. I can speak from personal experience about this, as my 23-lb cat slimmed down nicely (to 16 lb!) on a high protein/fat diet. And I have recommended the high protein/fat diet to many of my clients with overweight kitties with spectacular results. Dr. Greco also has found that when cats are getting a better level of nutrition, their teeth seem to be healthier, regardless of lack of dry food. (My experience bears this out too.)

Hypothyroidism is rare to nonexistent in cats, by the way, unless they have had thyroidectomies. The much more common scenario is HYPERthyroidism, which responds well to medication or radiation. No real relation to diet.

Seborrhea is definitely diet-responsive, both in dogs and cats. That is not to say that diet is a cure-all, but all types of seborrhea (sicca and oleosa - those are just terms describing the character of the dandruff) can be improved by dietary management, plus or minus medical intervention depending on whatever underlying problems exist (and there almost always are underlying problems, as primary seborrhea is uncommon).

I fully agree that cats are entitled to the occasional treat (I certainly spoil my guys enough!), and if the OP's cat can tolerate CatSip, that would be a great substitute for milk. But if a cat is fully lactose-intolerant, especially if elderly, perhaps yogurt or cheese or some other treat would work out better.

My 5 cents! :D

[Lorien]

13. Read the bestseller "Dr. Pitcairn's complete guide to Natural

Health for Dogs and Cats". He strongly disagrees with you on the "no nutritional value" assertion you've made concerning vegetables. And yes, carbs are a problem for obligate carnivores.

[China_cat]

14. Dr. Pitcairn is a bit of a whacko himself.

[Lorien]

16. Whoa

I read many books on feline nutrition after losing my beloved cat Peewee in 2003, and none of those books agree with you on this subject. Obviously we're going to have to agree to disagree.

[sleepyhead]

17. Thank you.

He has some good ideas, but I don't take his word as gospel.

[Lorien]

19. One should never take anyone's word as gospel

That's why my cats have three vets, and I have as many doctors.
I do believe in holistic medicine, as it has served me better for my chronic illness than traditional medicine. I hardly think that my experiences, study, and beliefs warrent a label like 'wacko".

[sleepyhead]

20. Oops - I wasn't calling you a wacko at all.

I read your posts all the time and find them to be smart and informative. I was only saying that I haven't found Dr. Pitcairn's "vegetarian" diets to be well-balanced. I use a fair amount of holistic medication myself, for me and for my pets and for my clients. But there are some places I can't compromise, and nutrition is one of them. I have yet to see a balanced vegetarian diet that is appropriate for cats.

[Lorien]

21. I can't figure out why anyone on this thread thinks that I

advocate a VEGETARIAN diet for cats! I'm sorry, but I never stated that. Dr. Piticain's warns against feeding a cat a vegetarian diet as well.

Here's what I'm saying: Cats are obligate carnivores, like hyena, mongoose, and meerkats. There animals MUST eat meat, they cannot survive on vegetable matter alone. This does not mean that they must NEVER eat anything green. On the contrary; these animals eat the contents of their prey's stomachs and will eat grasses on occasion. Vegetation is a natural and nutritious supplement to their diets. I feed my cats diet which has organic meats (not "meals") listed as the first two ingredients, but they also contain broccoli, peas, green beans flaxseed oil, cranberries, carrots, and sometimes brown rice (too many carbs, as noted, lead to diabetes). I avoid any food with corn or corn based ingredients. My cats are quite healthy, and the eldest (16) has seen his health do almost a complete turnaround once he was weaned away from Science diet and Iams and put on to Evolve, Wellness, Spot's stew, Organix, and other holistic brands.

[China_cat]

23. I never called YOU a whacko.

I said that DOCTOR PITCAIRN was a 'bit of a whacko'. Which he is. His ideas call for 2 completely opposite positions to be held at the same time.

I feed a modified BARF to my dogs. But if the diet alone is so good and so complete, why the insistance on all the supplements? A little more honesty...as in, this diet is great but it won't supply x,y,z and you'll need g,h,i to keep your dog/cat healthy in addition...is in order, I think.

[China_cat]

22. What bothers me most about his protocol

is that he touts it as the most proper and natural...but then starts telling you that you need to add all these supplements. (For which he has a commercial interest)

The 2 positions are just not compatible.

[Rhiannon12866]

7. This article suggests that cats are lactose tolerant and recommends

"Cat's Sip," a milk substitute, that can be found in pet stores.:-)

http://www.thepetprofessor.com/secArticles/cat/Cats_and_milk.asp