Help, please.

[livvy]

I have four bouviers, 2 males, 2 females. One of the males is neutered, one is not. One female is neutered, one is not. The intact animals are 5 years old, and under a year (the female). she has not gone into season yet. My problem is the neutered male attacks the intact male periodically. The intact male has no problem with other males. He really doesn't seem to have a problem with other male dogs at all. The fights between these two are very upsetting to me, and I never fail to get bit even though I try to keep my hands out of the fray. Does anyone have any ideas to break up a dog fight? I've heard citronella spray or smelling salts are helpful. Truth, fiction? I love these guys, but can't stand any more of these fights.

[SkyeTerrier]

1. Keep them separate.

Set up baby gates or use crates and/or x-pens to keep the separated. A fight between Bouviers is no laughing matter and you can easily get hurt trying to separate them. I have a friend that keeps a cattle prod handy just in case 2 of her males get together and that seems to work to stop a fight, but again the safest thing for you and the dogs is to just keep the separate at all times.

Also, unless you're showing the intact ones, get them spayed/neutered, that will help decrease the aggression.

[livvy]

4. Thanks for your suggestions.

When those boys fight it is truly scary. The intact male does not instigate these fights and barely fights back, but I plan to have him neutered soon anyway. I just had the one male done, since he is the instigator. I separate them when I am not home, and after the last brawl, I plan to keep them separated at night also. When I am home with my eye on them, I can diffuse the situation before it escalates. I would hate to do it, but I may end up having to place the neutered male in another home. It would break my heart, but it might be in everyone's best interest. I was planning to show the young female, but I may not, and get her spayed instead. Again, thanks for you input. Much appreciated!

[China_cat]

5. Honey, your boys fighting is nothing

You ain't seen anything until you see a bouv bitch fight.

There is something that is triggering it. Are you passing out treats or affection contrary to the pack order? I've had Bouviers for almost 30 years now and found (the hard way) that if you ignore the pack order, they'll make you pay for it.

The neutered male may actually be the alpha dog and if you're putting the intact male ahead of him, you're asking for problems. Let me guess...the neutered dog is the older?

Whose bloodlines do you have? I've got one rescue from a puppy mill (12 years old) from lines nobody's ever heard of and a Hot Rod granddaughter.

[livvy]

6. I can't figure it out.

The neutered male (2 years old)is the son of the intact male (5 years old). I think the neutered male is the alpha dog though, at least he thinks he is. The older dog has no interest in being the alpha dog, and is submissive to his son, and could care less about other male dogs. When I pass out treats, I usually give them to the younger male first, and pass treats out by name. Everybody has to sit to get them. As far as affection goes, the younger dog gets greeted first when I get home, but in other ways it's divided up pretty evenly. I've been working with the younger dog quite a bit with obedience issues, and he is very responsive. It just seems that once in a while he feels like beating up on his father. I know that's not really what's going on, but it sure seems like it. Food initially was an issue, so he eats on his own, and gets fed first. This has eliminated food as a problem. I think what happened the other night was nobody was in their usual spots when I went to bed. When the younger dog moved to get to his usual spot, he disturbed the older dog who usually growls when disturbed while he's sleeping. It may have spooked him enough so he stood up...and the battle was on. What a way to wake up in the middle of the night!
I've heard bitches can really get nasty. I've seen a taste of it with my oldest spayed bitch. That girl is no lady when it comes to rough and tumble play.
I'm in Michigan, so my lines come from the local breeders here...BB's, Jan-D, and K-Jan's. My oldest male is a champion and retired stud, and the younger male and the youngest female are from him. The spayed female is from different lines. I plan to get the older dog neutered this summer, and may do the same with the young bitch. I'm not sure if I want to show her or not.

[China_cat]

8. You might want to try crating

the older male, simply for his own protection. I use a broom and a spray bottle...get the broom between them and then spray (plain water) into the open snarling mouths. It usually causes one or the other to choke a bit and diffuses the aggression.

You're right to notice that the positioning may be a factor. My dogs (which also include a Briard/Beardie cross and a pug cross) will ALL refuse to eat and I can count on a minimum of some sniping if their food gets put down in the wrong order or in the wrong place.

Rosie never bothered Dot when we first got her (Rosie was 4, Dot was 13 weeks). No aggression. But she sure wasn't happy with the pup being there. Dot got crated, of course, in Rosie's old crate...which she hadn't needed for a long time. While I would take Dot out in the morning (Rose wouldn't go out with her) Rosie would pull all the bedding and toys out of the crate and hide them.

I don't know if I could ever go back to having just plain dogs again.

[livvy]

10. Thanks.

I think I will purchase a bunch of spray bottles and keep them conveniently placed around the house. When they got into it the other night, I used the spray from the shower in the adjoining bathroom. It didn't help, but I really couldn't get it close to them, so it wasn't a concentrated spray. It did however do an excellent job of soaking the carpet in my bedroom! Grrrr....
The way I separated them was with a board that I was able to wedge between them in a brief break in the action. I backed the older dog into an adjoining room while using the board to fend off the younger one. Unfortunately, the older dog made one more move toward the younger one, which took my eyes off him, in that split second the younger one lunged back at the older one. His aim was very bad and he grabbed my arm instead. He knew it right away and let go, but the damage was done. I have a lovely hole in my arm and a couple of other less serious "nibble" marks.
I know what you mean about this breed. I fell for them about 10 years ago. They are a challenge at times, though!
By the way, my oldest female is named Dottie, and I call her Dot or Dot Dot most of the time!
Here's a link to a page on my oldest male. I'm going to be closing down the page soon, as I don't want to stud him any longer. He's produced enough beautiful puppies!
http://www.infodog.com/my/dogpage.htm?akc=DL%2083423201

[China_cat]

11. My Dot

is actually Echo's Automagic Valiant. The breeder wanted an American naming convention A for her first litter plus the car connection for the Hot Rod lineage (dam is Hirsch's Hot Rod Chevelle) and I wanted the Belgian convention...Dot was born in a 'V' year. So the Valiant. Her call name comes from dot, dot, dot, dash being 'V' in Morse code and she was a puppy that I used to call a dust bunny on speed.

Shaved down for the summer here in the south (not to the skin, but very, very short)


Rosie and Larry

[livvy]

12. Great pictures! They're so cute.

I love the picture with the cat! I have my youngest male shaved for the summer, too. He has so much coat, and it's just too much for the warm weather. Thanks for sharing!

[ernstbass]

2. Spay and neuter the others

[livvy]

3. I plan to neuter the other male by the end of the summer.

I was planning to show the young female, but I don't need to. I was only going to show her for fun and something to do that I enjoy. The intact male is a champion, but he's sired his share of puppies, and I don't intend to stud him out again. Thanks for your response. I appreciate your input.

[roguevalley]

7. We had that until we neutered all of them. It was the only way for

us with five dachshunds. I also found a spray bottle of water is a good tool.

[China_cat]

9. Bouviers are a bit different

Both my bitches are spayed (actually, everything in this house is 'fixed' except my husband and the vet says she'll keep an open appointment for him) and one is 12 years old and we STILL get some horrendous fights 2 or 3 times a year.

These are dogs that can outstubborn a mule and definitely outwit about 90% of wouldbe owners.

[IndyOp]

13. This looks like a good video!

A little pricey, but if you really want to find a long-term solution scroll down the page to find: DOG-DOG AGGRESSION Video
<http://www.dogsbestfriendtraining.com/books-retail.php>

=======================================
New! DOG-DOG AGGRESSION Video Set 3-Part Video Series
Patricia McConnell, Ph.D.

Taped in color at a one-day seminar in Lisle, Il in September of 2003. This 3-part video set shows why Dr. Patricia McConnell is one of the nation's leading experts on canine aggression. Through demonstrations and lecture, videos and slides, she shows the causes behind dog-dog aggression and demonstrates humane and effective techniques to treat it. The first half of the seminar addresses dogs who are aggressive to unfamiliar dogs (especially if leashed) and the second part examines aggression within the home. This entertaining and informative seminar gets rave reviews from participants, because it's chock full of practical, effective solutions to a common problem.

=======================================
Feisty Fido Help For the Leash Aggressive Dog
Patricia B. McConnell

This booklet is designed for anyone, novice or professional, who works with dogs who are aggressive to other dogs on leash. Chock full of practical solutions to a common problem, the ideas within will help you change an out-of-control barker, lunger and growler into a polite neighborhood citizen. Including plans for handling emergencies such as off-leash dogs who show up out of nowhere, this program can make leash walks fun again, for you and your dog.