OK Deaniacs, I think it's time we wake up this dormant group forum

[Sebastian Doyle]

All the Dean bashing - and bashing of pretty much all REAL Democrats - recently is making me sick.

The words of Howard Dean in 2003 "I want my country back" are even more timely now than they were then.

Since bashers aren't allowed in group forums, this might be the place for some serious discussion of how to take our party and our country back from the corporatist DLC Blue Balled Cowardly menace.

[ima_sinnic]

1. count me in

the DLC corruptists make me sick
their efforts to divide and distort, to "blame Nader" and "Greens" are only too transparent.
the fact that Dean handed them the country on a silver platter and then was shunned was a very stupid move--they could have absorbed a very devoted, faithful, and humongous group of Democrats.
One particularly dumb one said yesterday that Dean "should leave the party"! I could not believe that! Who the hell do they think is going to vote for their horribly compromised, weak, corporate kiss-ass candidates if they send anyone who disagrees to Siberia? Do they really think their ever-dwindling base of goose-stepping "party loyalists" is enough to win elections all by themselves?

As with the voters in general, they take Dr. Dean's vote, and his support, for granted.
As a newly registered Independent--for the first time in more than 40 years--I can be counted on to vote for the best candidate (= the most provenly progressive), and that is all I can be counted on to do.

[defendandprotect]

12. Hi -- thanks for checking in --

To me, DLC is poison and I don't know how any Democrat doesn't get that?

Dean campaign was phenemonal -- what he did was precedent setting in raising money --

and they really hit back hard at him. They can't afford to take a loss and be put

backward. Too many people might wake up in that interval!

Changing one's registration to "independent" is very meaningful . . . but I can't

say definitely why. I think it has something to do with $$$???? So if dissatisfied

Dems all dropped their Dem registration and moved to Independent it would be quite a

threat to the Dems -- at least that's what I've heard. That method of showing

displeasure with the party has been discussed for ages.


Anyway, we seem to be off to a slow start at the moment -- but hope you'll keep

checking in and I will, as well.

[Jamastiene]

2. Anything to move the country left is good for me.

The rightward slant is killing me.

Count me in.

[defendandprotect]

11. Hi Jamastiene -- good to see you here . . .

Ironically, I don't know the names of the two posters who suggested this

site be used to begin getting liberals/progressives together!

I've invited about 16 posters to join us here --

I've invited people just based on strongly liberal posts that I've noticed ---

and think anyone interested in this get-together could do the same/??

From time to time there have been polls trying to judge the numbers of liberals

at DU -- and it always seemed like quite a few.


I imagine everyone is also quite anxious about tomorrow and the Kennedy seat and

focused on that right now -- ??

[defendandprotect]

3. "I want my country back" . . .. is this where liberals/progressives are meeting?

[defendandprotect]

4. Encouraged by Skinner's welcome: "to promote progressive values ... continuing

the work to revitalize the Democratic Party begun by Howard Dean" --

Albeit, that was Skinner in '04 --

We seek to promote progressive values and fiscal responsibilty, continuing the work to revitalize the Democratic Party begun by Howard Dean

[defendandprotect]

5. We might have to offer free ice cream . . . ?????

Or set off a nuke ???

:)

[JDPriestly]

6. I was not a Deaniac in 2004 but got involved in DFA after Dean

was out. We worked generally for the Democratic Party, tabling and other activities. I'm older now, and it isn't so easy at this point to do that although I am still fit enough to do some things.

We used to have a DFA group in our area. I looked at the DFA site in order to connect to it, but apparently it is inactive. It's also possible that DFA now connects in some way other than the website I visited. So, as a first step I would like contact information about DFA.

We could have an old-fashioned Dems group here on DU. I like the DU forum because it is national, anyone can read our posts, and, at least to the public, we are anonymous. Our anonymity protects us from crazies out there.

I am not afraid of those who attack me for saying what I think on DU. I've dealt with much worse in my life. I know what I believe, and I know that what I believe is traditional Democratic Party idealism. I refuse to apologize to the Reaganites who have taken over our party. That's where I stand.

I have been a Democrat since I was born. My parents were and are FDR Democrats and true Christians. I sat on my father's knee and listened to the conventions on the radio when Stevenson and Eisenhower first ran against each other. Must have been 1952. I've been hooked on politics ever since my father explained it to me. I vividly remember Kennedy's election and every Democratic convention that took place before and since. I volunteered during the McGovern campaign in 1972. I'm the Democrat. I don't know what those other people are. But I think Reaganites is as good a name as any.

I'm in, but DU is my home because I know that I am the Democrat, not these apologists for some sort of third way corporatism.

[defendandprotect]

8. Hi -- glad someone has finally visited ---

Yes . . . . was just thinking about how far off the tracks we are right now --

with the party -- and how far from FDR and how much we need to get back there to

the New Deal --

Amazing how FDR stood up to the power at the time ---

Amazing how we have let all of this slip thru our fingers ---

And, now letting this huge '08 win slip thru our fingers . . . ????

[ima_sinnic]

16. not sure what site you're talking about, but DFA is active

http://www.democracyforamerica.com/

It appears to be a little behind, but not extremely.
In fact, the "events" page is up to date, with future local events listed:
http://www.democracyforamerica.com/events

Organizing an event and posting it there might be constructive for people looking for some way to come together--this is a resource that can be used.

Besides DFA, there is also Progressive Democrats of America, http://www.pdamerica.org/

and Democrats.com ("the Agressive Progressives"), http://www.democrats.com/ (currently running a petition to kill the 60-vote requirement to end a filibuster, a fight led by candidate Jonathan Tasini, NY, running for Hillary Clinton's seat in the Senate)

[No Elephants]

39. Beautifully posted. Never knew my Mom's affiliation, but my father and his whole family were clearly

Democratic. Not even a split ticket, ever. (me, either.)

[EmeraldCityGrl]

7. Hi. I'm going to be checking in regularly.

I went to the 2004 caucuses supporting Dean and was quickly told the error of my ways.:eyes:
2004 was the first year I didn't vote for a Democrat in the senatorial election. I voted for the Green
Party candidate.

Being a first time campaigner I had a very bad experience with the Kerry campaign, but will
spare you the details. I successfully caucused for Obama and campaigned for him independently.

I'm extremely disappointed with this administration and that also goes for the way Howard Dean has
been treated. It was just amazing to me that for all he has done there was no acknowledgment or
support. I know for most of you that was no surprise.

I've only recently considered the idea that there is a virtual coup taking place in the party. I
self-identify as a Liberal and do still support Obama ( not sure if that's allowed here)
as difficult as that is to admit given what has taken place. I do want to see Dean play a bigger
role in the party and was quite frankly surprised he was not given an appointment by this administration.
There is a dramatic split in the party and I want to be sure I'm making the right choice for me.


Looking forward to hearing what you all have to say.

[defendandprotect]

9. Hi -- hey -- three of us here -- wow !!

I'd be interested to hear any of your experiences ---


Re Howard Dean . . . yes, it seemed to me quite obvious that it wasn't the GOP

that slew Howard Dean -- it was the DLC and corporatists in the party -- IMO.

At this point I can't get my son to vote any more -- he was a huge supporter of Dean.

And, it's shocking not only that Dean has been treated so abusively but that there is

so little reaction to it!???


I've only recently considered the idea that there is a virtual coup taking place in the party

Wow -- I'm going to take a shower, have dinner and think about that --

IMO, the overt coup happened in '63 and it also took our "people's" government with him,

of course -- they were leaving no chance for us to use our own government to investigate

or hold anyone response, nor to stop their agenda.

That also included the Democratic Party IMO -- had they left it standing, it would have been

used to truly investigate what had happened and to stop those involved.

That doesn't mean that you might not be correct -- I think it takes more than one coup to

bring a nation down!?

I self-identify as a Liberal and do still support Obama ( not sure if that's allowed here)
as difficult as that is to admit given what has taken place.

Oh, dear . . . . of course, EVERYTHING IS ALLOWED HERE!!

And I wouldn't be here if that weren't true!

I think we're all just looking for ideas on how to move liberal/progressive agenda --

and how to make Dems responsive to liberals/progressives.

NOTHING HERE SHOULD BE A TABOO SUBJECT . . . . !!!


Back after dinner ---



:)

Meanwhile, if anyone wants to spout off on something -- or throw some suggestions in

the barrel, pleas do so --

[madfloridian]

10. Oh, you meant THIS DFA forum. I thought you meant the website.

lol

I guess you can tell who tried to keep this going with no success. :shrug:

It's all my posts for months, then I gave up.

Good idea.

[defendandprotect]

13. Hi madfloridian -- glad you think it's a "good idea" . . .

:)

[No Elephants]

38. My son worked for the Kerry campaign in Boston. They assigned him to chaffeuring a big

wig from Missouri--someone behind the Gephardt campaign who joined Kerry's.

My son was underutilized as a chauffeur. However, he got tickets to the Convention Hall every night from the heavy hitter he was chauffering. He also got some great close up photos--Hillary, Michael Moore, etc. He even got to sit on the stage one night--the night Obama gave the speech that ended up putting him in the WH a little over 4 years later. And, since I live in Boston, he dropped by daily in between chauffeuring. And what mom doesn't love that, especially when her son usually lives way out of state? We were both so elated in 2006 that we spent three hours on the phone, cross Continent, watching all the returns coming in from all over the nation and talking about that.

My son volunteered for Obama, too, but they wanted to send him from California to Indiana and he could not go. When Indiana went for Obama, though, he regretted that he had not been part of that historic effort. We were both so elated that night.

Now, he's upset with the health care plan, Obama and the Democratic Party, too, though I doubt he's upset to the degree I am. (I've had a lot longer to be upset, since I am obviously a generation older than my son.)

[defendandprotect]

50. My son contributed a great deal to Dean . . . now he won't vote any more!!

[BP2]

115. "I'm extremely disappointed with ... the way Howard Dean has been treated." Do we know why

Howard switched his position on "Kill the Bill?"

I got busy during Yule. Was there a good explanation as to why he did so?

[defendandprotect]

14. Just want to say to any who are here, if they wish to invite any liberals they know or

come across posting in threads -- please do so!!

[DKRC]

24. Hey didn't know y'all were here!

Followed you from

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7497940

Entitlement “Reform”: Will Obama (continue to) take Zeke’s advice (& privatize Medicare)?
Faryn Balyncd Mon Jan-18-10 12:06 PM

I'm adding you to my groups.

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

31. Hi -- off to a slow start and still trying to round up more . . . start anywhere/anytime you want on

any subject . . .

but I think probably tonight we'll be heavy into the MA race????

Sad --

[DKRC]

35. Union Yes made a good point

paraphrasing Truman.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7512320

Memo to the DLC: If voters want neocon policy they'll vote for Republicans.

DLC policy domination of the Obama administration and the US House and Senate are making the Democratic Party unelectable.

If voters want conservative policies they'll vote Rethug.

It's as simple as that.

[No Elephants]

40. That is a good point.

Here are a couple of other points (also good, I hope, but who knows?):

1. Democrats are never going to be as good at being Republicans as the Republicans are, so they may as well not try.

2. Members of the Republican base will never for a Democrat.

3. "Republican Lite" is killing the spirit of the Democratic base.

4. Democrats' only hope is to give independent voters a real choice.

I becamse a Democrat for a reason--and it was not that my father and his whole family were Democrats. Like any good adolescent, I had decided my elders were out of it. It was because Democrats were (then) the party and voice of blue collar workers, union members, ethnic, racial and religious minorities, women's rights, veterans, legal and social justice, etc., while Republicans were the Party of the rich WASP male draft dodger.

Now, blue collar workers, ethnic minorities and racial minorities (especially evangelicals) are voting Republican, against their own economic interests. IMO, that is a massive FAIL on the part of the Democratic Party because Republicans are still the party of the rich WASP male. If anyone doubts that. run a video of the opposition at Sotomayor's confirmation hearing. Pretending SHE was the bigot bc she had the unmitigated gall to believe a Hispanic woman just ight have something to offer the federal judiciary.

[autorank]

15. Evolution of my thinking on the subject

Whether or not Coakley wins tomorrow, and I hope she does, Toto has pulled back the curtain and the Wizard of the Democratic establishment has been exposed as a little bald guy with nothing but a bunch of gizmos. Mass is a recapitulation of Virginia's governor race, 2009. The Democrats put up a ridiculous candidate and they lacked a strong national party halo due to inaction in behalf of the people. Voila, wipe out.

So ideas for the future are vital.

Here's the evolution of my thinking on this subject:

Ship of Fools, Ship of State - the Money Party at Work

Who are the officers guiding our ship of state, steering us through the troubled waters of a failed economy and two tragic and costly wars?

The Binary Fallacy and the End of Both Political Parties

The binary fallacy is the crude dialectic that assumes that the two political parties are the only choices for voters and that what's bad for one party will always be good for the other. As evidence for this, we have Nixon's Watergate scandal followed by huge Democratic victories in congressional elections. President Carter's economically distressed four years begat the Reagan revolution and so forth.

The two parties and the elitists who look down their noses on the overwhelming majority of citizens assume that the people will simply tolerate the creation of a catastrophe by one party and the perpetuation of that grave injustice to citizens by the other.

When you're broke, you know it.

When you're out of work, you know it.

When there are no jobs, you know it.

And when the country continues to fight overseas but does nothing to protect economic security at home, you know it.

The game is up. The party is over. The people have a fundamental right to survive, at the very least. If both parties continue to promote policies that leave out almost all citizens, as is now the case, there will be alternatives that look nothing like the current two political parties. The binary fallacy and the two parties that fail to address our crises will be no more. Relying solely on the failures of the opposing party while embracing their programs will soon be defunct.

Post Obama Politics - What Comes Next?

There's no way to explain this away. Obama is a failure and he can't back out of this many mistakes without losing all credibility. The Democratic Party leadership bears an equal burden. And that bipartisan coalition called The Money Party has made it perfectly clear what they think of citizens. This isn't really about Obama. The vile personal attacks leveled against him are not only wrong, they miss the point. He's just the symbol. We're in a whole new world where no one in power is doing anything for the people. That's the issue.

So what's next for political action?
--------------------

So what is next?

[defendandprotect]

19. A wow kind of look at what's going on . ..

I haven't absorbed all you are saying but in a quick scan, I shudder at the memory

of the selections by Obama -- Geithner, Summers, Emmanuel.

Your second link also shows Gingrich in a pose that I think quite suits his fascist leanings.

For forty years and more, Ralph Nader -- OOPS!! Can I freely use his name in a post here???? --

has been making clear the two party tyranny. Are we perpetually trapped in this downward spiral?

Is there a way out of it?

And I wholeheartedly agree that the WARS have to be stopped -- too many other evils are happening

behind the cover of those wars.

And JOBS creation -- ending the trade agreements -- and someone on Schultz last night was

pointing to this need. How can we possibly discuss JOBS without acknowledging the destruction

of these trade agreements? It's impossible.

Additionally, from what I've heard, Obama is going to create jobs thru a CORPORATE program!!

Trickle down jobs??? Bad idea -- very bad idea!

PLUS our unemployment rate is certainly NOT 10% -- it's at least 17.5% -- and probably more.

AND, from what I recall of job loss, that's been the figure for more than a decade.

Coming out of the Bush I years, it was at least that high.

Again, I have only quickly scanned your two links -- however, YES it should be the Republican

Party which is going down. Evidently only 20% of voters are now identifying as Republican.

So what's going on????

The new Repug governor of VA -- and here in NJ we have a new Repug governor -- Christie!!

How can that be. Americans have over the past decades certainly lived a "reality"

created by the right wing. How much of it is legitimate, I sincerely question.

For one -- let me point to the original terms upon which the MSM reported our elections ....

the reports were based on actual vote counts. It was the LARGE computers used by MSM which

began to come in during the mid-1960's which gave them the power to PREDICT and CALL elections.

That power was simply reversed in 2000 as Jon Ellis/Fox RECALLED Florida from Gore.


Thanks again for the links -- I'll try to get back to them.



PS: Just want to comment that the computers -- both the large ones used by MSM and the

individual voting computers used on election day -- began to come in during the mid-and-late-

1960's. Coincidentally, just about the time America was passing The Voting Rights Act.

[autorank]

59. It's how I've seen it. To me it's all one party, just with different wings

It does matter who you voter for, but less so as time goes on. I worked hard for Kaine, who I barely
agree with because a real fascist org was running against him. I don't regret it but then the guy
is in charge of DNC and blows this one;)

Like a lot of people, I'm trying to understand and expose the core of the problem. The basis is the problem
is the use of out sized financial power by the top 0.5 % of the wealth chain. I've got a great graph
that shows the wealth distribution but photobucket is dead. Basically, it shows the top 5% of the
population controls 60% of the wealth with the thop 1% having about 2/3rds of that!

You aggregate wealth in that small a group, the top 1%, and they can buy everything. Charles Keating
showed how it works, even thought he was somewhat of a nuveau rich guy. He paid dear Sen. Alan Cranston
(D-CA) $1.0 million and bingo, he owned the guy. Cranston, despite being a liberal icon of the time,
a real liberal, did everything for the very right wing Keating.

Now imagine that top 1% with all that money. They buy everything in Congress, regulatory agencies,
and most importantly, the press.

I think ownership of the media is the great vehicle for control. They couldn't do it without that
and wow, do they control the flow of information...since way back.

Huge money concentration + Near complete control of informatoin = CONTROL, period.

That's what we're up against. Someone like Dean comes along and they sand bag him with what ... a
media trick on a sound feed, just blew him away. It was totally unfair and misleading but it was
the moment they needed to shove him down. You saw what we ended up with - a weak candidate and a
stolen election.

What do you do about the concentration of wealth? What do the police do when they bust the head
quarters of a big theft ring - they redistribute the wealth to the lawful owners. I maintain that
the people who do the work, make the sacrifices own a lot of the wealth concentrated in the top
1%. But there are no cops to go after it. I'm proposing a real law and order system that
stops the big heist and gives the people a chance to enjoy the benefits of all those multiple
jobs it takes to survive.

[defendandprotect]

64. Couldn't be clearer . . .

That's what we're up against. Someone like Dean comes along and they sand bag him with what ... a media trick on a sound feed, just blew him away. It was totally unfair and misleading but it was
the moment they needed to shove him down. You saw what we ended up with - a weak candidate and a
stolen election.

Well said --

My son contributed a great deal to Dean -- and couldn't work on a day to basis for him

but did some house party stuff. Now he won't vote!


And as I repeat that I feel again the frustration that I think so many of us feel --

the very real disappointment --

[EmeraldCityGrl]

26. Lots to think about here.

I've bookmarked the links to read later tonight. The most glaring observation is the fact the two party system
is no longer working for the majority. That holds true for the right as well which is why we see this poster
boy in MA. about to win the election. 51% of new voters registered Independent. If that doesn't tell us voters
can't identify with or wish to support either party I don't know what else does.

[defendandprotect]

32. Personally, I really don't get how GOP has any steam left ...????

Allegedly only 20% of voters identify now as Repugs ---

After Bush they should be KO'd -- put out to pasture ---

Is this grasping at straws or could there be a steal in MA --?

but I have to admit, Coakley was a very, very poor choice --

How did that happen?????

:eyes:

[EmeraldCityGrl]

42. Where did all the repugs go?

They morphed into Teabaggers and "independents." Same game, new name.

Listening to Brown tonight refer to himself and his supporters as independents was laughable.

My husband doesn't pay attention to politics like I do, tonight he kept asking why was she chosen

as the candidate.

Everyone will come to their own conclusion as to the why of this stinking mess, but Dean called it before

most realized it was a problem.

Edit: Sen. Scott Brown (R-Tea Party) http://motherjones.com/politics/2010/01/scott-brown-wins-massachusetts-coakley#comments

[defendandprotect]

44. Someone posted here that there was a report that the T-baggers . . .

was one large group which was being bused around from location to location????

And their original purpose was a paid for performance via FreedomWorks -- fake.

I also wonder how anyone like Coakley could have been selected as a replacement

for Kennedy! I understand that Joe Kennedy would have run, but they didn't want him!

Granted he had problems. I'd be interested in what Dean said about her.

I think Dems simply stayed home -- I don't think they voted for Brown.

But, I'm no expert!

Thanks for the link -- will try to follow tomorrow -- off to bed!!

[No Elephants]

43. She was the only primary candidate (of 4) who had state wide name recognition.

Pagliuca has a net worth of about $100 million, backed Romney against Kennedy in 1994 and never held any public office. So, all around, not exactly appealing to the base, though he was bright, dynamic, associated with the Boston Celtics and claimed he felt obligated to donate to Romney because they both worked for the same firm.

Khazei-very intelligent, seemed liberal,but not charismatic or dynamic and most folks in Massachusetts probably still don't know his name.

Capuano--my Congressional rep. Member of the Progressive Caucus. Dependable liberal vote, but also a Party player. Buds with Pelosi. No statewide name recognition, not dynamic. Knew the issues, but came across as not knowing them. In an informal quiz by local news station, missed almost every question (without pointing out how dumb and trivial the questions were--and they were, and without pointing out what he did know). Endorsed by most Democrats who bothered to say anything at all during the primary.

Coakley-not dynamic or charismatic, either, but ambitious. Ramped up her campaign while Teddy was still alive, thereby alienating the Kennedys (who supported her anyway, as soon as it started to look as though her numbers were in free fall). The ony candidate in either Party--including Brown--who refused to have anything to do with the Kennedy legacy. However, as a long time prosecutor--and currently AG, she had statewide name recognition.

And, she was a female. As such, she got a mega donation early on from Emily's list, (Early Money Is Like Yeast), which backs only women candidates, Congresswoman Tsongas (another beneficiary of Emily's list). And, she got Bill Clinton's endorsement, even though Capuano had supported Hillary, too. That was the highest level endorsement in the race. And she got a lot of support from women, perhaps still stinging from Hillary's primary loss. (Massachusetts tends to indulge in identity politics, IMO.)

But, as a nominee, she got little to no national support from anyone in the Party until she was already in free fall. And she was a lousy candidate.

[defendandprotect]

46. Understand that . . .

Joe Kennedy would have run --
I see there were some built in problems there, however --

Gather Ted's son Edward didn't want to run right now -- ?

How can we be so bereft of liberal candidates - ?

But, as a nominee, she got little to no national support from anyone in the Party until she was already in free fall. And she was a lousy candidate.

You have to really be bad to be beaten by someone like Brown, IMO!!

[No Elephants]

117. Joe Kennedy Jr.? He nixed running. So did Ted's son.

It was not being bereft of liberal candidates. All 4 Democratic primary candidates ran on the exact same platform. And it was a liberal one. Strong public option. Gay marriage. Etc.

Thing is, everyone knows, once they get to Washington, D.C. they will vote with the Caucus.

"You have to really be bad to be beaten by someone like Brown, IMO!!"

Yes, but Democratics in D.C. have to suck in the public perception, too.

If you were excited about what Democrats in Washington D.C. were doing, you'd vote for that famous yeller dog, knowing the dog was not going to buck the Democrats--at least not as much as a Republican would.

If you were excited about the candidate, you might "hope" they would make a difference, no matter what was going in D.C.

A Democrat has to say FAIL about both before s/he stays home when a Republican is leading in the polls, especially a Massachusetts Democrat.

[defendandprotect]

123. What I was saying was that Joe Kennedy, Jr. offered to run... as I've heard it --

I know Ted's son Edward was saying he would move into politics -- but later on --

And -- just my personal opinion -- but perhaps he wasn't confident that democratic

pressure on Congress was stronger than corporate pressure?


It was not being bereft of liberal candidates. All 4 Democratic primary candidates ran on the exact same platform. And it was a liberal one. Strong public option. Gay marriage. Etc.

You're saying that Coakley was a "liberal" . . . ?

We've known for at least a year that more than 72% of the public wants a government health

care system like MEDICARE FOR ALL -- could the White House and Obama not know that the numbers

in MA were 82% or more for MEDICARE FOR ALL?

Were they shocked to learn that today?

Not only has the GOP/corporatist agenda been keeping Democrats away from the voting booths --

the LACK of Democratic populist response has also been keeping them away.

The lies -- the failure to enact a national health care plan long ago --

the abandonment of consumer protections while bailing out corrupt banks --

people aren't dumb!


AND, evidently the disgust with what's been going on in the Obama administration kept Dems

home yesterday rather than out voting --

Let's also not forget those nasty little voting computers!



Actually -- I came in here to try to get a line up for some threads -- suggestions for

threads to move us along to see ourselves, to envision a future -- to find out what we

all really think of the Democratic Party and our possibilities of recapturing it --

that kind of thing.

Maybe tomorrow --

Think I'm off to bed!

:)

[EmeraldCityGrl]

82. We MUST have better candidates going into

the Nov. elections. I read the Coakley campaign refused to do any preliminary research
on the opposition and voter sentiment early on. I'm not an expert but, that seems almost
arrogant.

I also understand she was initially opposed to HCR, but towards the end of the campaign
came out in support of it. Wondering how that was perceived by voters and also
seems like a slap in the face to Emily's List given the language in the healthcare bill
denying equal opportunities for healthcare to women seeking abortions...just saying.

And how important is the charisma factor? Scary to think we're going to electing our
officials based on the rules set for a beauty contestant.

[defendandprotect]

113. Think this probably should be a separate thread . . . but to start . . .

I'm simply amazed that Coakley could have been chosen at all --

Evidently Joe Kennedy, Jr. was willing to run ???

I know there were problems there ... but I think would have been better

than Coakley?

Meanwhile, how could Coakley, Obama or any of the Dems miss that 82% of MA wanted

a government run program like MEDICARE FOR ALL??????

That just somehow flew by them under the radar??



And completely agree with this . . .

What is Emily's List thinking ????


I also understand she was initially opposed to HCR, but towards the end of the campaign
came out in support of it. Wondering how that was perceived by voters and also
seems like a slap in the face to Emily's List given the language in the healthcare bill
denying equal opportunities for healthcare to women seeking abortions...just saying.


Further, CATHOLICS by a huge 73% or more want government run health care -- and they want

it to include contraception and abortion -- abortion by 51% and 53% when Latinos/Latinas

are icluded!1

And -- just as many Catholic women have abortions as any other women!!

Which goes to prove that the Catholic Bishops/Vatican/Pelosi haven't a leg to stand on!!

This is about preserving patriarchy in their own interests -- an effort to try to regain

control over women and reproduction!!

And their own members are standing against them!

[No Elephants]

41. I live in Mass and don't think that 51% is as significant as it's being made out to be tonight.

For one thing, my dh and I originally registered as Independent (technically "unenrolled") and neither of us would think of voting Republican. EVER.

At the time, we were very young and oh so sophisticated (in our own minds, of course). Registering "unenrolled" just seemed like the more intellectually defensible thing to do. It was something like saying you're agnostic, instead of saying you're atheist, when the reality is that you do not believe in a divine being. It's like saying, "Sure I lean Democratic today, but, hell, I am not totally closed minded and undiscriminating. I am open minded, and capable of independent thought, thank you very much." And, truth to tell, we didn't really know any better.

Once registered, there was no reason to change as an Independent in Massachusetts can vote for any Party in a primary. That's a fact most overlood when pointing to Independents in Massachusetts. Registering for a party limits your choices, while, in some states, registering independent keeps you from voting at all in a primary. The only thing that finally motivated me to bother changing my registration was Dummya's re-election. It was more of a statement than anything else.

But, look at Massachusetts' actual voting record: The Massachusetts state legislature is about 95% Democratic (literally--no exaggeration)and has been for years. The only Republican President for whom Massachusetts has voted in many decades was Nixon (only once, and after the whole 60's Democratic convention mess, etc.) and Reagan, but only in his second term. It was the one and only state to go for McGovern, thus earning a reputation as THE bluest state in the nation.

As for Senators: Kennedy's seat was held by a Democrat since 1952. The last time Massachusetts elected a Republican Senator was 1972.

Yes, we have lots of Republican Governors, including Romney. But, they ALL ran as liberals, including Romney, sometimes more liberal than a blue collar Democrat who was running against them. And our Democratic legislature can override a gubernatorial veto without even breaking stride.

IMO, taking away from Brown's win that Massachusetts independents must be leaning right would be a huge mistake for America and for the Democratic Party.

[defendandprotect]

47. Nice run down . .. recap there . . . thank you!

51% -

Re the registering -- it's very important to parties --
I think at least in some states it has to do with $$ distribution?
But, it has been more than once encouraged to "send a message" to Dems --
I've done it -- and I've also changed back to Dems to try to give them more strength.


But, look at Massachusetts' actual voting record: The Massachusetts state legislature is about 95% Democratic (literally--no exaggeration)and has been for years. The only Republican President for whom Massachusetts has voted in many decades was Nixon (only once, and after the whole 60's Democratic convention mess, etc.) and Reagan, but only in his second term. It was the one and only state to go for McGovern, thus earning a reputation as THE bluest state in the nation.

Very enlightening --


Yes, we have lots of Republican Governors, including Romney. But, they ALL ran as liberals, including Romney, sometimes more liberal than a blue collar Democrat who was running against them. And our Democratic legislature can override a gubernatorial veto without even breaking stride.


IMO, taking away from Brown's win that Massachusetts independents must be leaning right would be a huge mistake for America and for the Democratic Party.


The way I'm understanding that is you don't buy it --

So is the answer that the win comes from the gap created when the Dems stayed home?

Also -- presume we can dismiss a Repug steal?

[No Elephants]

119. No queestion that Democrats stayed home. Martha conceded as soon as she heard the Boston turnout

numbers. She did not even wait until the Boston votes were all counted. (According to the Mass. Sec. of State, cities tend to vote later in the day than the burbs.)

Boston is the most Democratic part of the state (much like Manhattan and New York state). The campaign got that, if Boston did not turn out, they could not win.

[defendandprotect]

126. Thank you for all your info -- and I agree -- "Dems stayed home" --!!

[autorank]

62. 51% indy in Mass!

I heard Lawrence O'Donnel explain that tonight - if you vote in a Dem/Rep primary, you're registered for that party and THEN must re-register independent. That's a determined group, determined to avoid the party identification. I didn't know that but you are clearly right - it tells us something.

Interesting times. The Newsspeak lesson will be "move to the center" - that will be the theme.
It's already started but it won't work.

[No Elephants]

49. Are you the author of that blog?

[autorank]

52. Which one? If is says "Michael Collins" it's me (unless it's one of the

other Michael Collins;) But those are all web sites where I submit articles. Someone else owns the website but I have a blog there. Did I answer the question?

[defendandprotect]

53. You're "Michael Collins" .. . didn't recognize that the other day . ..

and hope to get to the links by tomorrow!

[autorank]

63. I am that guy;)

[No Elephants]

118. Howdy, Mr. Collins. Pleased to make your acquaintance. Good stuff.

[autorank]

176. >Likewise and thanks!

[defendandprotect]

127. Hi -- have finally gotten to read more of your articles . . .

Truth be told it's so aggravating to look back I had to go quickly --

and was so steaming gave up after 4/5th way thru the last article!

However, re this . . .

June 6, 2009 – Washington, DC (electionfraudnews.com) – The results of eight years of Bush-Cheney at the helm make the demise of the Republican Party an easy call. Our financial system is on life support. The major banks are insolvent, according to banking and legal authority William K. Black. If they're not, they're in intensive care. No matter how many trillions of dollars worth of infusions they receive, they're not making loans. The economy is in a free fall with growth down 6% a quarter and job losses running at nearly 600,000 a month. We're stuck in two catastrophic wars. Despite President Obama's election, we're viewed with suspicion and disregard throughout the world.

The public knows which party bears the primary blame for all of this and they're not about to forget any time soon. The Republican Party is headed for the political graveyard.


I've heard confirmation over the last months that only 20% of voters are now identifying as

Republican! Why are they still standing -- and as far as I can see with Brown, they're

actually soliciting people with openly fascist outlook!

Are they at the bottom of their barrel -- or is Brown someone from the TOP of their list?

As I would imagine Schwartzenegger is???


Also, Gingrich is quite a successful right wing propagandist with a following --

tho he's his own worst enemy in a way.

What do you think of him and his potential to get back in leadership?

Presidential run in 2012?

I find him frightening --



Meanwhile . . . new subject --

I haven't counted -- but think we might have about 50 here now and need to move out to
the main part of the DFA forum with threads --

Believe it or not I don't know if we can discuss anything to do with third parties ....???

I think we have to find out -- but I'm quite sure that subject is going to pop up!

But I think we need threads that will help us get a vision of ourselves as liberals/

progressives and needless to say find out how many of think we can still save the

Democratic Party?!!

It's also late and I think I have to get off to bed!

:)

[Jamastiene]

17. I'm still here.

It seems that lately I am seeing a lot of right wing talking points straight from the Bush years in posts here and there on DU.

Without breaking any rules, and getting TSed immediately, can we compare notes on general right wing talking points we've seen lately?

For example:
One phrase I have heard quite a lot lately has been "redistribution of wealth" in regards to anything that would help the poor.

Also known as "income redistribution," the catch phrase, "redistribution of wealth," is a known right wing talking point.

http://www.conservapedia.com/Income_redistribution

Yet, I have seen it numerous times lately on DU.

It's beyond creepy.

Have any of you heard any excessive right wing rhetoric lately?

[defendandprotect]

20. Agree re right wing propaganda ....

and it works very successfully!

Unless people feel a common inheritance in the earth -- in the sense of preserving it

and rejoicing and treasuring nature -- then they do lose hold of the reality of our

"Commonwealth."

Rather it is the elites/capitalism which seeks to move the wealth of the nation and its

natural resources into private hands ... from the many to the few. That has been true

since the earliest days of this goverment and actions of our Founders.


There also seem to be some left wing talking points that have to constantly be addressed

as fear-based and are no less harmful, IMO --

from the "time machine" re Obama --

to the "liberals want a pony" argument --

and the constant cry that we would prefer McCain in the Oval Office--!!!

Imagine that . . . we are complaining of a LACK of liberal/progressive actions and someone

suggests we want more right wing control of the White House-!

[DKRC]

36. "Imagine that . . .

we are complaining of a LACK of liberal/progressive actions and someone suggests we want more right wing control of the White House-!"

You're not alone. That convoluted logic makes my head hurt every time I see it flung out to discourage discussion of just how far right some Dems in the party have moved.

:eyes:

[No Elephants]

45. Many. Some posters are outright Republican trolls, some are RWers who somehow managed to

stay just below the radar until they hit 1000 posts, and still do. (You can spot them by lots of criticism for Democratic positions, lots of criticism of specific Democrats, but never any praise for either). And hatred of immigrants, affirmative action, etc.

But, yes, the DLC mentality is very close to the Republican mentality.

And then, there are the hero worshippers who seem short on ideology themselves, but will praise and defend ANYthing New Democrat Obama does, try hard to pre-empt criticism of him, attack poster critical of him, criticizes, etc. Other hero worshippers have other favorites, like Kerry or Pelosi.

And some of the hero worships have a broader horizon than just a Democrat or two and defend ANYthing the Party and any Democrat does, with the possible exception of the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, like Kuch, Feingold, Dean, members of the House Progressive Caucus, etc.

Favorite type of canards: You are just like the RW; you are helping the RW; you made Martha lose, etc.

Put all those sub-groups together and you get a lot of Republican sounding posts, only maybe with less crazy and more spell check.

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

18. I will check in frequently

I will do everything in my power to help REAL Democrats (FDR model) help REAL people get some REAL reforms.

There's a lot of unfocussed liberal energy out there just looking for a place and people to channel it to.

[defendandprotect]

21. Hi -- and love that you use the FDR model reference . . .

That's also my thinking that we need to get back to the New Deal --

in fact, it's frightening that we have not had a great push to reinstate

regulation of capitalism. I think Sen. Byron Dorgan had planned to introduce a

bill to renew Glass-Steagall which is much needed.

Unregulated capitalism is merely organized crime.

I'd also like to find out just how big this liberal/progressive voting bloc might be????

[defendandprotect]

22. Hi -- a few of us are showing up regularly . . .. hope you'll be visiting again soon????

[omega minimo]

23. is this the Deangeon?

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

28. Hi -- thank you for checking in --

We're off to a slow start but if you want to raise any issue just go

ahead and start -- !!

:)

[omega minimo]

37. Thanks again

:toast:

[defendandprotect]

48. We're going to need some organizational advice as we try to

move into discussion threads -- I'm proposing that we need at least ONE if not TWO

threads on a/our CORE purpose here????

[omega minimo]

57. maybe some brainstorming about what we would do to change things

Top of my list would be replace Rush Limbaugh with Thom Hartmann, esp. on Armed Forces Radio. Educate people about their nation, its history, the current results of 30 years of Reaganism and what we MIGHT be able to do about it.

Blow away all these meaningless labels that people use and have discussions about tangible aspects.

Join with the other Groups favoring one pol or another and the anti propaganda folks. Start using real language ....................

[defendandprotect]

61. Think the Limbaugh ousting would be a worthwhile effort ...

especially with Dems now in the White House -- why still Limbaugh?
We might get some help on this from Dem members of Congress who would surely
recognize that this works against them?

Educate people about their nation, its history, the current results of 30 years of Reaganism and what we MIGHT be able to do about it.

Yes . . . but it's the second part that's the hardest to figure out.

Blow away all these meaningless labels that people use and have discussions about tangible aspects.

Join with the other Groups favoring one pol or another and the anti propaganda folks. Start using real language ....................

And uniting with others is very important -- it has always amazed me that liberal organizations

don't come together - labor and women, for instance! THAT was Susan B. Anthony's dream!

[omega minimo]

65. Her dream would be a natural fit for the times we're in now.

Any group working for social justice.

[defendandprotect]

69. I was wondering if we picked up anyone from a UNION to join us?

Also noticed someone said unions are now only 8% --

that's another 1 point drop.

The highest we ever got to here in America was 39% unionization --

Took them decades -- with deception and violence -- even using Mafia -- to

knock so much out --

Repugs . . . the destroyers!

[omega minimo]

71. strange that "conservatives" came to be "destroyers"

[defendandprotect]

72. You know who said that and how LONG ago . . . ????

It was Mario Cuomo -- probably 15 or more years ago -- saw him on C-span saying that --

I'm in NJ -- former New Yorker --

And it was intended as a warning -- very clearly.*

But it shows you how long ago these "labels" became ineffective --

Certainly, even FDR admired true conservatives -- people who valued nature --

life-affirming values -- !!!


And it was at least 15-20 years ago when I was driving home one night in my car and

the news announcer began a report . . .

"Former Gov. Mario Cuomo -- excuse me . . .

Former LIBERAL Gov. Mario Cuomo . . . "

Don't know if the announcer was trying to make clear what he was being told to do or

not -- but it woke me up!




* The warning can't completely succeed however unless people truly begin to understand

CONSCIOUSLY how patriarchy and it's underpinning -- organized patriarchal religion --

and capitalism are connected and how suicidal those concepts are.

And I would especially single out "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature"

which are the licenses which permit exploitation of nature, natural resources, animal-life --

and even other human beings according to various myths of "inferiority."


The oil companies produced billions of dollars of propaganda vs Global Warming for

decades -- About 5-8 years ago most of them dropped out . . . but ExxonMobil is still at it!!

I don't mean that the oil companies are any less concerned with wealth/profits/greed --

but the spotlight was being turned on them. Finally, about a year and a half ago

the Royal Academy of Science called out ExxonMobil for it's lies, disinformation, misinformation,

etal re Global Warming. Keep in mind the New York Times gave them space on the Op-Ed page

for decades to run their anti Global Warming propaganda! Quite a disgraceful alliance!!

AND, they would permit no criticism of the ExxonMobil ads via "Letters to the Editor" saying

that you couldn't comment on "ads."

[omega minimo]

74. yeah it was my last post

:eyes::evilgrin:


On the last part, agreed and check out the way MLK framed it, taking on what we might call patriarchy or authoritarianism ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7508060

"the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism"

[defendandprotect]

75. It could just make you cry -- even without hearing his voice . . .

:"A nation that continues to spend more money on military defense than programs of social uplift"
"I am convinced that if we are to get on the right side of the world revolution, we as a nation must undergo a radical revolution of values. We must rapidly begin the shift from a "thing-oriented" society to a "person-oriented" society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism, and militarism are incapable of being conquered."


"A time comes when silence is betrayal."
And that time has come for us in relation to Vietnam.

The anti-war movement has been disappeared -- and think it's the largest anti-war movement ever?



The truth of these words is beyond doubt, but the mission to which they call us is a most difficult one. Even when pressed by the demands of inner truth, men do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in time of war. Nor does the human spirit move without great difficulty against all the apathy of conformist thought within one's own bosom and in the surrounding world. Moreover, when the issues at hand seem as perplexed as they often do in the case of this dreadful conflict, we are always on the verge of being mesmerized by uncertainty; but we must move on.

The doubts many of us feel even now --
and the false use of patriarchy --

And this is a marvel . . .

As if the weight of such a commitment to the life and health of America were not enough, another burden of responsibility was placed upon me in 1964; and I cannot forget that the Nobel Prize for Peace was also a commission -- a commission to work harder than I had ever worked before for "the brotherhood of man."

A time when the Nobel Prize for Peace actually meant something--!!


The Western arrogance of feeling that it has everything to teach others and nothing to learn from them is not just. A true revolution of values will lay hands on the world order and say of war: "This way of settling differences is not just." This business of burning human beings with napalm, of filling our nation's homes with orphans and widows, of injecting poisonous drugs of hate into veins of people normally humane, of sending men home from dark and bloody battlefields physically handicapped and psychologically deranged, cannot be reconciled with wisdom, justice and love. A nation that continues year after year to spend more money on military defense than on programs of social uplift is approaching spiritual death.
"Double Standards require Double Talk." -- Ronald Reagan, Jr.


Rather "Westerm arrogance" has buried most of true value in the world --

Also in trying to speak for and organizing the POOR there was great danger for MLK, Jr.

Any organizing of the masses -- whether unemployed, seniors, welfare recepients -- etal !!

Big threat!!

[EmeraldCityGrl]

84. Real language would be real refreshing...

I hear so many of the same old tired phrases over and over again.

I realize some are so appropriate they must remain, but instead of

identifying your position with a recycled phrase, speak from the heart.

Especially the word "pony" or any ponyish phrase. I hate that one.:evilgrin:

[omega minimo]

92. LOL

:hi:

[ronnie624]

54. I *thought* I heard an echo.

Are we allowed to be in here?

[defendandprotect]

56. Hello -- thanks for checking in --

Think we need a bit of organization -- maybe moving out to the wider

forum and starting threads?

All suggestions welcome!

:)

[ronnie624]

60. Thanks for the invitation.

I'll be monitoring this forum henceforth.

[defendandprotect]

67. If you have any suggestions --- fire away --

comments, ideas for threads, discussion topics --

[omega minimo]

58. I followed a White Rabbit

[Enthusiast]

25. I'm in.

Real Demoocrats are always left of center.

[FiveGoodMen]

27. Agreed!

[defendandprotect]

30. Hi --

glad you are here --

So many things to discuss -- and I can't think of one thing right now to throw

out -- !!!

We're off to a slow start -- but anyone can start on any issue -- !!


PS: The MA election tonight is probably going to be a big -- and possibly very sad --

distraction here ---

Presume there will be a thread here on reports?

Polls closed at 8pm --

[defendandprotect]

29. Hi -- still trying to round up some more . .. but if you have anything to say, get started!!!

:)

[SlingBlade]

33. I'm here ...AGAIN

Hope the Dr is in, We need him desperately now

[defendandprotect]

34. Hi -- MA screams out for Howard Dean . . . Rahm ran another one into the ground!!

As you can see we're off to a slow start here -- and still rounding up liberals --

PLEASE start any conversation you wish -- it does seem that many keep checking in . . . ???

I think the news from MA tonight -- really sad -- is going to predominate tonight, however!

:)

[defendandprotect]

51. This is great . . . it's getting crowded in here ... and we're going to have a logistics...

organizational problem -- I think -- !!

:)



All suggestions welcome -- !!

[No Elephants]

55. Think I will start another thread.

[defendandprotect]

76. Good . . . . stretch out a bit . . . but leave bread crumbs for us to follow -- !!!

[elleng]

66. Hope I may participate.

Never been a 'Deaniac,' but appreciate his talents and 'our' needs.

[defendandprotect]

68. Hi -- happy to have you --

If you have any suggestions -- comments -- on improving liberal influence

over this administration -- or whatever -- fire away!

[elleng]

73. I will, thanks.

[EmeraldCityGrl]

85. You speak for a lot of people. Welcome.

[elleng]

116. Thanks. I speak for myself,

and MAYBE others agree with me. THOROUGHLY independent, and hope that's not a curse around here.

I do think 'we' should re-do, in the styles of Dean and Grayson and Wes Clark.

[defendandprotect]

70. What about the 'MOVE YOUR MONEY' movement . . . ?????

I'd love to do this but it's a pain -- and I know my husband will cringe

if I suggest it cause he does the paperwork!!

But I have to acknowledge that it's a GREAT IDEA .... taking money out of the

hands of the "too big to fail banks" -- !!!

We use TD a Canadian bank that took over from Commerce here in NJ --

They didn't get bailout as far as I know --

And the Credit unions are also very interesting -- my daughter has one where she works.

[Greyhound]

77. Hey fellow whipping posts/scapegoats.

My personal opinion is that there is nothing that we can do at present. The Republicrats control the Party and progressive candidates have virtually no chance of getting through the party's vetting process.

Since at least 1968, the Democratic Party has been wrested away from the workers and their advocates, by the defenders of the ruling class. I don't see this changing anytime soon.

We need, I believe, to make our positions clear and unite behind them to form an independent voting block.

[defendandprotect]

79. Greyhound . . . how about making your post a separate thread HERE at DFA ...

And let's see how everyone feels about it --

I think it might be a good opening effort --

[No Elephants]

121. Greyhound, just for the record: I am not a whipping post or a scapegoat.

Have no intention of becoming one, either.

[Peace Patriot]

78. Some practical suggestions

First and foremost...

1. THE VOTING MACHINES

Autorank (above) mentions fascist money and fascist media. Yep, those were the conditions necessary to inflict the final blow on our democracy: the fast-tracking of electronic voting systems all over the US, during the 2002-2004 period, run on 'TRADE SECRET,' proprietary programming code, owned and controlled by a handful of far rightwing corporations, with virtually no audit/recount controls. Not a peep out of the fascist media. Not a peep out of our Democratic Party leadership (except for Dean--and even he was not strong on this issue).

'TRADE SECRET' voting machines make it impossible to achieve the power and traction necessary to start reforming the fascist money and the fascist media. And they make it possible for a handful of far rightwing corporations to play our system like a piano--for instance, to permit a seeming "liberal" into the White House, so the fascist media can rip him to shreds and shift the blame for the MASSIVE crime of the Bush Junta onto "liberals," to destroy any last vestige of fairness in our system, and to write the "narrative" for reinstallation of the Bush Junta; or, for instance, to "balance" every real Democrat in Congress with two Pukes or their equivalent, "Blue Dog Democrats."

FURTHERMORE, the electronic voting putsch just got worse--far worse. ES&S just bought out Diebold and now has a 70% monopoly of the US voting system "market." ES&S is worse than Diebold as to far rightwing connections. Its initial funder and major investor is reclusive billionaire Howard Ahmanson, who also gave one million dollars to the extremist 'christian' Chalecdon foundation, which touts the death penalty for homosexuals! THAT'S who is now 'counting' most of our votes with 'TRADE SECRET' code!

This horror is still amenable to remedy because the power over voting systems still resides at the local/state level, where ordinary people still have some potential influence. The Anthrax Congress did NOT mandate e-voting; it just funded it with a $3.9 billion e-voting boondoggle. Any local or state jurisdiction can reject the machines, if a citizen group can become organized, loud and powerful enough to demand it. This is what the phrase "tea-baggers" SHOULD HAVE BEEN APPLIED TO--throwing ES&S and all 'TRADE SECRT' voting machines into 'Boston Harbor' (so to speak)-- but the phrase got co-opted.

Speaking of Boston, I don't know what specific voting system they have, but, since New York just caved--the last bastion of resistance to the e-voting putsch--there is NO state in this country with verifiable vote counting. And bear in mind that three forces work together to steal elections: Fascist Money, Fascist Media and Fascist 'vote counting.' However these were manipulated in MA to produce a 'tea bagger' Senator from the bluest state in the nation, MA citizens should look first to the voting system: Can you even verify the count? Is that even possible? (Let alone, was it verified?)

Experts whom I respect say that a 10% audit (handcount of paper ballots against machine results) is the minimum necessary to detect fraud in a
"TRADE SECRET" electronic system. As far as I know, NO state in the union has such an audit. (Half the states do NO audit AT ALL; and even the best states do only 1%.)

Venezuela used electronic voting, but it is an OPEN SOURCE system--anyone may review the code by which the votes are tabulated--and they do a whopping 55% audit--five times the minimum necessary to detect fraud. That's why Venezuelan has universal free medical care and we don't!


2. THE LESSONS FROM THE LEFTIST DEMOCRACY MOVEMENT THAT HAS SWEPT LATIN AMERICA

Things were getting so bad for our global corporate predators and war profiteers in Latin America, with the election of genuine leftist governments in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Uruguay, Paraguay (!), Chile, and up the peninsula in Nicaragua, El Salvador, Guatemala and Honduras, that our desperate corporatists and the Pentagon had to resort to kidnapping the president, in the most vulnerable country (Honduras, a US client state), removing him by force, installing a rightwing junta and unleashing rightwing death squads against the rebellions population, in an effort to bludgeon the region into submission and to try start a "domino" effect to topple leftist governments wherever the USAID and the CIA can manage it. (They just succeeded in Chile, the least leftist of all of these governments).

What is happening now is the determined effort of corporate predators and the Pentagon to re-conquer the region. I won't go into all the details here (but I would say look to the Colombia/US military agreement that will be coming to Congress, to get the picture). Instead, I want to backtrack to the lessons from this leftist movement, that might be applicable here. (How you hold on to your leftist revolution, once you've won many elections, is another question).

Perhaps THE most important factor of all was the decade of work done on Latin American election systems, by many groups and people--the Carter Center, the OAS election monitoring group, local civic groups and grass roots social movements. The second most important factor was those grass roots social movements--basically, local community and union organizing--which challenged the "Tweedle-dee/Tweedle-dum" 2-party lock on all political power. And the third most important factor was thinking big. For instance, in Bolivia, the grass roots social movements would not compromise with Bechtel owning the water system; they forced Bechtel out of their country. Another for instance: The coca leaf farmers' union, led by Evo Morales, would not compromise with the US "war on drugs"; they threw the US "war on drugs" out of their country and legalized the coca leaf in the frigging Constitution! (--after electing Morales as president!).

These were not easy things to do, but they represent THINKING BIG. So, here are the three lessons...

1. TRANSPARENT vote counting and other election rules aimed at fairness.

2. Grass roots organizing.

3. Think big!

------------------------------------------------

Getting rid of the voting machines here is the kind of movement that could spark the leftist revolution that is needed here. It has the potential support of all citizens, of whatever political party or belief, who are sincere in their commitment to democracy. It is FAIRNESS itself, that everybody be able to SEE and UNDERSTAND how our votes are counted. It is our most fundamental right and power. And it would constitute a fundamental attack on corporate power and privatization.

The reason that the anti-war movement failed here is that the marchers did not a carry a "Throw 'TRADE SECRET' voting machines into Boston Harbor NOW!" sign in one hand and a "No War For Oil!" sign in the other.

Everybody MISSED the putsch--which started IN THE SAME MONTH as Congress voted for the Iraq War--Oct 2002--with the Anthrax Congress ALSO passing the "Help America Vote Act"--the $3.9 billion e-voting boondoggle--with NO requirement for verifying the votes!

That was how they overrode the will of the American people nearly 60% of whom opposed in the invasion of Iraq (Feb 2003, all polls), two years later, when Bush-Cheney were fraudulently 're-elected'--despite there being no WMDS found in Iraq, despite revelations of widespread torture, despite the treasonous outing of the CIA's top WMD agent, and despite Junior's obvious imbecility in the debates.

Fascist Money, Fascist Media and the fast-tracked Fascist Voting Machines combined to accomplish that task--to keep traitors and criminals in the White House for four more years of massive looting and other horrors.

So, we need to peel back the mechanisms of oppression, one by one, in order of their outrageousness: "TRADE SECRET" vote counting is the most outrageous. And also in order of their sheer practical power to prevent reform.

It is notable that the leftist democracy revolution in Latin America occurred WITH corpo-fascist media that is worse than ours. The FIRST key to overriding fascist control of the government is NOT the media. It is TRANSPARENT vote counting. You cannot begin to bust up media monopolies, and require fair and balanced political coverage and public service as requirements for using the public airwaves, until you have elected legislators and a president who will do that--or at least start to do that. You cannot reduce or eliminate the influence of money on elections until you have the governance clout to require public funding of elections or other anti-money rules. If people vote against a money-influenced candidate and their votes are NOT COUNTED, you have gotten nowhere. You MUST have transparent vote counting to get anywhere at all with any reform.

"TRADE SECRET" vote counting says it all. It sums up the problem. And as the final blockade against reform, it IS the problem. It is THE most resonant issue of Corporate Rule--the one that can rally the most people, the one that speaks to fundamental fairness.

Diebold changed its election division's name (to "Premier") and ES&S swallowed it up FOR A REASON. If the American people get onto this issue, it's all over for the corporatists. It is THE issue that can bring them down.

[defendandprotect]

80. Peace -- Can you think about making this a separate thread here at DFA ....

And let's see where computer voting is in the liberal consciousness as a continuing

problem --

Perhaps you could open with a brief summation of your post ---

and still leave the entire post intact at the end for full reference?

[No Elephants]

122. A lot of Massachusetts, if nnot all, is on paper ballot and absentee ballot, which are also paper.

Someone's machine counts the votes, but there is a paper trail.

After all the talk about Diebold and the Congressional hearings, the Democrats could certainly do something if they wanted to. Such as tough penalties for interfering with the vote or knowingly allowing anyone so to interfere. Therefore, inaction suggests to me they just don't want to.

[defendandprotect]

129. Agree . . . and as many have moved to absentee voting/paper ballots . ..

I think it's been more difficult for GOP to pull the steals --

Early and late voting screws them up -- as Randi Rhodes has often pointed out.

Here in NJ I've been voting by absentee since 2000 election!

And, Corzine put in a system which greatly improved it and was moving it along to

everyone as early voting and made it even more convenient.

Obviously, the right wing here has been trying to attack it claiming that your

address isn't a good guide to your legitimacy!

And I think with Christie coming in we're going to see more attempts to knock it out???

[Peace Patriot]

134. A paper or Absentee ballot is NOT secure if it is fed into a 'TRADE SECRET' system

with scanners, and there is an inadequate audit. And NO STATE IN THE U.S. has an adequate audit for detecting fraud in an electronic system. There needs to be an automatic 10% audit (handcount, checking paper vs machine total) as a minimum. Half the states are doing NO audit AT ALL (because, either they don't have a paper ballot, or, if they do, they don't count any of them; and the best states are doing only 1% as the automatic audit. That is not enough.

You may vote on a paper ballot or with an Absentee ballot but **99%** of them are never counted--except by a machine whose 'TRADE SECRET' code is owned and controlled by a rightwing or far rightwing corporation!

Even the best states have systems that are made to order for fraud.

Putsch #1: Bush/Cheney, Supreme Court. Putsch #2: 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting, everywhere, forever.

We could have overcome 4 years of the Bush Junta. 8 years of massive thievery and other horrors made it twice as hard. And continued Puke/"Blue Dog" rule with a weak president makes it nearly impossible.

There are many things gravely wrong with our system--fascist money, fascist media, redistricting, suppression of poor and black voters. THIS--"TRADE SECRET" control of vote counting--makes it impossible to address these and other ills. And now that they have "TRADE SECRET' code everywhere, they don't have to be obvious about it (as they were in 2004, and in the Max Cleland all-Diebold 'vote' in GA in 2002 ). They can select an Obama (whom I think actually did win, by a bigger margin than we know) and saddle him with a "Blue Dog" Congress, then they can dis-elect him in 2012 and put some Bushwhack back in. They don't have to bar every good Democrat from office. They just have to select sufficient Pukes and "Blue Dogs" to counter the real Democrats. And the DLC and currently DLC-controlled DNC accommodates this corpo-fascist purpose by funding "Blue Dogs" in primaries (which are also--except for caucus states--controlled by ES&S-Diebold & brethren).

"TRADE SECRET" code--code that neither you nor I nor any citizen, nor ever our secretaries of state, are permitted to review--whether it is present in a touchscreen (no paper) system (the worst--no recount even possible), or a scanning (paper ballot) system (with "TRADE SECRET" tabulators, a 1% audit and only very rare and generally only 3% recounts) is extremely insecure, an invitation to fraud and constitutes a corporate privatization of vote counting.

This is intolerable in a democracy. And if it is not undone by a massive citizen movement at the state/local level, we can kiss our democracy goodbye.

[Peace Patriot]

135. Demoralization...

Just want to add this: The corporate privatization of our vote counting system with 'TRADE SECRET' code is not only made to order for fraud, it is made to order to DEMORALIZE you and me and the majority of Americans.

We can work our butts off for good leftist candidate, and they can easily--EASILY!--with a few lines of undetectable code--reverse a leftist win. All that work for nothing!

OR, if they don't want to tip their hand in that election venue, they can (s)elect Pukes or "Blue Dogs" elsewhere, to cancel out the influence of leftist office holders.

So, the people of this country end up with...nada. NO representation, or--equally bad--no effective representation.

Did you know that nearly 60% of the American people opposed the invasion of Iraq (Feb '03, all polls). "Fuck them!" our political establishment said, "Fuck them forever!" "TRADE SECRET" vote counting will take care of all future anti-war majorities.

This was meant to SHUT UP the 60% of Americans who think straight, who are fairly well informed and who desire peace and justice. It was meant to make us feel isolated and disempowered and depressed and demoralized. It was meant to override the will of the majority and take our democracy away from us.

We need to fight that demoralization by, first of all, understanding what is wrong--HOW we have been rendered powerless. Strategically, you have to grasp what the key problem is--what is the mechanism of disempowerment?--before you can muster the forces needed to address it. If you keep batting merely at the results of 'TRADE SECRET' vote counting--the wars, the bankster looting, etc.--you will just wear yourself out, and that is most definitely what is intended--for our progressive majority to give up. You've got to look to the power MECHANISM. And when you look there--at our main power over our government, voting--what do you see?

"TRADE SECRET" code, with NO audit, or a miserably inadequate 1% audit, run by private, rightwing corporations!

To restore transparent vote counting is the most practical, and the most potentially energizing, and the most doable citizen campaign that there could possibly be. If we, the people, can fix that problem, then all other problems become fixable--not only be virtue of the momentum of such a movement, but also because we will have repaired the very mechanism of power.

[defendandprotect]

141. Had no idea of that !!!

And was just going to bed . . . now I'll have a nightmare!!!

Back tomorrow -- Wow!!!

Well, thanks, I guess for the truth!!!

Of course it's "intolerable" -- where the hell are the Dems???

Have we figured out yet that they're not protecting us from any of this?????

sigh . . .

good night --

[defendandprotect]

81. HI ALL ... I'm also going to post two threads . . . Please LOOK for them here at DFA ....

One with two articles --

and another a poll --

[last1standing]

83. Great idea!

Thanks for getting it started.

[defendandprotect]

105. Hi -- OK . . . thank you!!! Post what you wish -- fire away!

[closeupready]

86. Checking in...

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

98. Hi -- thank you for coming .... we're trying to get some threads started ....

if you have any points to make, anything to say -- go to it!!

:)

[defendandprotect]

104. Hi -- thank you -- anything you want to say . . . just begin...comment or thread here....

:)

[jgraz]

87. I'm in!

Heeeyaahhh!!

[defendandprotect]

99. Hi -- thank you -- any comments, opinions, whatever . . . go to it ... start a thread...

[marlakay]

88. I heard something about Dean I didn't know this Sunday

on a talk left radio show. The guy was from Vermont and saying that Dean while Gov was in the middle almost leaning right and didn't go left until he left being gov. He said whenever people are in office they tend to do that and have nothing to fear when not in office.

And that it was odd to see Sanders to the right of Dean now.

What do you guys think of that? I always thought Dean was a lefty because he was that why the whole time I have heard of him since 2003.

Does that mean that is what Obama is doing??

I will be honest, if so, this is what I hate about politics.

[defendandprotect]

100. That's an interesting observation . . . keep it in mind for a future thread?

FDR turned to the left, I believe when he saw the mess . ..

but I'm guessing that Obama knew the people supporting him -- $$$$ --

were corporatist and what they wanted????

Dean put in a system of health care which he now says would be 3X cheaper

if it had been single payer!!!

[shadowknows69]

89. Check in when I can SD. Trying to insulate myself from the news for a while.

Blood pressure reasons and all.

[marlakay]

90. I had to do that on and off since Kerry lost

I would get so angry and my husband after Bush won again refused to have anything to do with politics at all except two things he will vote (dem of course) and watch the guys as we call them Jon & Stephen. He says they are the only decent news on tv.

But its hard for me the only places I have to vent are on blogs and this one got so crazy during the primaries and then its like I bit my tongue for awhile trying to give Obama some time but now I am angry again.

About Dean have been angry for a long time. Angry he didn't get a job from Obama, that he is not in charge of party anymore, etc.

My younger kids told me about him in 2003, same kids told me about Obama...(and those are my military kids and husband is officer working at Pentagon...they don't talk politics except to themselves and me because of their position)

[defendandprotect]

101. Think we all know about that -- can't get close to politics without contracting HBP!!

Thanks for coming -- rest --

we'll be looking for you further down the road --

:)

[MissDeeds]

91. I'm in

Good to be among other liberals. Howard Dean is the real deal, and the best hope for the Democratic Party.

:toast: :patriot:

[defendandprotect]

102. Hello -- thank you for coming --- any opening comments, suggestions,

whatever .... get right to it --

We're beginning to post some threads --

[BlueJac]

93. count me in

[defendandprotect]

103. Hi -- glad to see you . . . again .. .

we're starting threads ...

any comments, suggestions, opinions . . . whatever -- get to it!!

:)

[JVS]

94. ok

[defendandprotect]

106. Hi -- thanks for coming -- and please say whatever you wish --

in post or start a thread here . . .!!

:)

[Hubert Flottz]

95. My name is Hubert and I'm sad about losing Ted's seat...

I'm sick of the lies and the liars.

Howard Dean is telling it like it is...

[defendandprotect]

107. Hi -- thank you for coming ... and I also love Howard ....

:)

[Jefferson23]

96. I'll be 55 years old in a few days, and I've been fighting for progressive

policy for most of my adult life. I will never give up, so count me in.

[defendandprotect]

108. Hi -- thank you for coming --- talk about anything you wish in post or thread . ...

Still trying to round up liberals and progressive here --

but hopefully some of you will begin posting???

[Jefferson23]

110. One aspect I find crucial is to fight the smears, to take Obama's

tactic during his campaign. Fighting the smears of progressive policy is a huge challenge, as we speak, CNN and the rest are speculating that
Obama needs to move to the right more. Perhaps emailing and twittering information to all MSM and challenge them to address their false claims.


Blame the all-powerful left!

By Glenn Greenwald

(updated below - Update II)

I have a contribution this morning to the New York Times examining the Scott Brown victory, and I'll post the link to it once it's up. But for the moment, I want to address two equally moronic themes emerging over the last couple of days which seek to blame the omnipotent, dominant, super-human "Left" for the Democrats' woes -- one coming from right-wing Democrats and the other from hard-core Obama loyalists (those two categories are not mutually exclusive but, rather, often overlap).

Last night, Evan Bayh blamed the Democrats' problems on "the furthest left elements," which he claims dominates the Democratic Party -- seriously. And in one of the dumbest and most dishonest Op-Eds ever written, Lanny Davis echoes that claim in The Wall St. Journal: "Blame the Left for Massachusetts" (Davis attributes the unpopularity of health care reform to the "liberal" public option and mandate; he apparently doesn't know that the health care bill has no public option , that the public option was one of the most popular provisions in the various proposals, and the "mandate" is there to please the insurance industry, not "the Left," which, in the absence of a public option, hates the mandate; Davis' claim that "candidate Obama's health-care proposal did not include a public option" is nothing short of an outright lie).

article in full: http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

[defendandprotect]

112. Thank you for posting Greenwald -- I included it in 3 articles I was toting ....

Also, try this one by Hamsher . . . !!

Dear President Obama: Time to Stop Letting Corporations Write the Health Care Bill
by Jane Hamsher
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/dear-preside...


Again, I can't stress enough that people have to turn off the TV . . . as much as
possible!!

Wall St. Journal has been calling Social Security a "Ponzi Scheme" for decades!!
And which way is it . . . ??? They own Down Jones or Dow Jones owns them?
Wall Street Journal's OP page is simple fascism!!

Granted, business news is on the level -- IF YOU CONSIDER CAPITALISM ON THE LEVEL!!





NEW LINK TO THE HAMSHER ARTICLE ...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/dear-president-obama-time_b_429649.html




And, YES, I agree re responding to smears --

[Jefferson23]

130. Jane is fantastic in my book, thanks for that link.

[No Elephants]

124. Coincidentally, I just emailed Hardball, that Dean's poll re: why Democrats stayed home

(or voted for Brown) was to stop a hcr bill and wake up a Party, both of which Democratic voters in Massachusetts consider too corporate. (Matthews relentlessly mocked Dean for saying Brown's election was about wanting a strong public option and more Progressive ideas, not about going right.)

[defendandprotect]

128. I also emailed Hardball tonight re Matthews' disgraceful attack/sham ...

Seems obvious to me that Howard Dean is one of the biggest fears for the right --

especially within the Dem party!!

Looks like word went out to Matthews to attack ---

We really watched it -- paid attention -- and I don't watch Matthews, EVER!!!

Looked like Dean was smokin' at times -- but I think he succeeded in frustrating

Matthews. Loved his comment about "The only crazy person here is you -- and if I had

a mirror I'd hold it up for you to see yourself!"

The interview was a disgrace on Matthews' part -- he's disgusting!

Love Dean!

[Jefferson23]

131. See, this is just what makes me nuts about the MSM, ugh. But take a look

at this if you haven't already signed on. You may want to include your support. CREDO action:

Sign the petition

We've reached 81% of our 2nd NEW goal of 75,000 signers! (61,189)

The petition to President Obama, Speaker Pelosi and Senate Majority Leader Reid reads:

"The loss of Ted Kennedy's seat -- due to a lack of enthusiasm among Democrats and Independents -- sends a clear message to Congress. The Senate health care bill is not the change we were promised in 2008, and it must be improved. The Senate must use 'reconciliation' to pass a better bill with a strong public option."
Complete the following to sign the petition. You'll receive periodic updates on offers and activism opportunities

http://act.credoaction.com/campaign/po_reconciliation/?r_by=7432-1680935-vA1YXfx&rc=confemail1

[defendandprotect]

140. Signed the PETITION .... thank you --

[amborin]

97. count me in!

[defendandprotect]

109. Hi --good to see you -- thank you!

Anything you want to say -- go to it -- post or thread here ...

:)

[Mithreal]

111. Hi all, count me in.

[defendandprotect]

114. Hi -- welcome -- thank you for coming -- jump into discussion . . .

If you have any thoughts, ideas, suggestions -- want to start a thread here at DFA

go to it -- !!!

:)

[grahamhgreen]

120. I'm in! Perhaps forming a coalition with the Greens...?

[defendandprotect]

125. Hi -- thank you for coming!

IMO, as long as the only competition for the Dem Party is the neo-fascist GOP

the Dems will continue to move to the right -- and as long as the DLC is in

control of the party and Rahm is in the White House and in Obama's ear!



The Greens have had excellent candidates -- but unless we get IRV voting that's

not going anywhere, IMO. And, I was disappointed to learn a few years ago that the

most they've ever attained internationally is 10% of the seats!

That would make a big impression here in US, however -- but I don't think they would

take on anyone who could really challenge a Dem unless we had IRV voting.

They also suffered from the Nader "scapegoating." Scared the hell out of them!

[Jefferson23]

132. Thom Hartmann featured this on his show yesterday, it blew me away.

From a Truman speech, now tell after you read it how bad you want Obama to speak as such.

This is just a snip, the entire speech Truman gave to Address at the National Convention Banquet of the Americans for Democratic Action

May 17, 1952


"I've seen it happen time after time. When the Democratic candidate allows himself to be put on the defensive and starts apologizing for the New Deal and the fair Deal, and says he really doesn't believe in them, he is sure to lose. The people don't want a phony Democrat. If it's a choice between a genuine Republican, and a Republican in Democratic clothing, the people will choose the genuine article, every time; that is, they will take a Republican before they will a phony Democrat, and I don't want any phony Democratic candidates in this campaign."


snip* "The first rule in my book is that we have to stick by the liberal principles of the Democratic Party. We are not going to get anywhere by trimming or appeasing. And we don't need to try it."

http://www.trumanlibrary.org/publicpapers/index.php?pid=1296&st=&st1=

[defendandprotect]

137. Thank you -- agree ---

You can also start a thread here at DFA is there is any other discussion

you want to begin --

I'm still trying to round up liberals at the moment -- !!

Glad you're here --

:)

[Jefferson23]

142. You're very welcome, and thanks for signing the CREDO petition!

[Hell Hath No Fury]

133. Not an original Deaniac --

but have come to love him and what he stands for. We need his voice more than ever right now.

And after today's SCOTUS decision, strengthening the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party will be more crucial than ever.

[defendandprotect]

138. Agree -- thanks for coming . . .

If there is anything you want to begin to discuss, just start a thread here at DFA . . .

anything!

Glad you're here --

:)

[emsimon33]

136. Count me in.

[defendandprotect]

139. Hi -- thank you --

And if you have any suggestions, ideas, or whatever you want to post on . . .

just begin a new thread here at DFA --

I'm still trying to round up liberals -- think we're about 60 now???



:)

[Jefferson23]

143. I just received this email regarding the SCOTUS decision yesterday.

At least this is a start, please read and sign on if you agree, at the link.


From: Mitch Stewart, BarackObama.com ([e-mail])



I'm concerned about the recent Supreme Court decision allowing corporations to spend limitless amounts of money to affect the outcome of elections.

I will stand with you as you identify and take bold steps to ensure that corporate special interests never drown out the voices of ordinary citizens in our democracy.

Sincerely,

Your Signature

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/fairelections/

[defendandprotect]

145. Hi Jefferson23 -- PLEASE MAKE THIS A SEPARATE THREAD here at DFA forum. . .!!!

Just hit the main designation about .... "Democracy for America" and
you'll be out of this thread and into the wider world of DFA!

You can keep posting on this thred, of course, if you wish.



:)

[Jefferson23]

155. Oh ok, I will do that, I had misunderstood. I thought you wanted to consolidate info. here, sorry

about that!

[defendandprotect]

156. You can continue here as long as y ou want . . . but if you look above

on the bright blue HOME line you will find at the end of the line

"Democracy for America Group" which is us ---

THIS ONE is only one thread on that forum --

Eventually we'll have to move along and into the wider forum, I think?

Right now, however, this is a good place for people to check in and say hello and

start getting familiar with who else is around.

Whatever you wish to do is fine, however --

:)

[fascisthunter]

144. count me in....

[defendandprotect]

146. Hi -- thank you for coming along ---

I've read quite a few of your posts over time and I'm sure you'll have

some ideas, opinions, suggestions for us --

You can keep posting on this thread -- or if there is a subject/thread you

want to begin just hit the designation above to start a thread at "Democracy for

America Group" --


Any time you're ready!!

:)

[fascisthunter]

148. thank you very much for the invite

I will try to make contributions, it's an honor really. :thumbsup:

[defendandprotect]

149. I hope so . . . I love liberals/progressives .... and I'm still trying to round them up here at DU!!

If there are any liberals here you are aware of, please invite them--

I'm just reading threads and PM'ing when I see a liberal message.

[fascisthunter]

150. I will do so...

[defendandprotect]

147. LIBERALS/PROGRESSIVES HERE....PLEASE NOTE ....

we are attempting to start more threads in the wider world of

"Democracy for America Group" --- don't forget to check to see

if there is anything new there --

I'm sure there are many here who will have positive suggestions for

us or thoughts they want to share ...

simply to to the top of the page and hit "Democracy for America Group"

and POST a thread --- anytime you are ready!!!

:)

[KansDem]

151. I appreciate the invitation!

I'd like to participate, so "include me in!" :hi:

[defendandprotect]

161. Hello -- glad you got here OK . . .

This has only been going on a day or two so IMO what I'm primarily trying

to see is the interest and the numbers --

and what we can do with it --

Others will have other ideas!

If you have any, feel free to post whatever you wish --

This thread seems to work well for checking in and saying "hi" --

if you want to post something go up the page to the dark blue are "Home" and

across to the Democracy for America Group and hit it -- then you'll be at the

wider forum. Only a few new posts by liberal/progressives are been started there

so far.

I've invited probably something like 85-90 people and all seem to want to be with

us -- probably 60 or more have checked in --

[JonLP24]

152. Hi

I think this is a place for me. Forums such as GD have become somewhat unbearable because some of the discussions are not very productive. I regularly contributed to LBN and GD and it was fine. There were a couple of events that made me feel uncomfortable. First one was when the administration blocked the photos for very much the same reasons the Bush administration which was not to anger the enemy. It wasn't because I wanted to personally look at them but to make them available for prosecution evidence for those that administered the act. Whether I was right or wrong I didn't like that I and others here with legitimate beefs with certain policies were made fun of or had our concerns minimized as not very important. Granted there is those on either side of any given issue that are toxic to a discussion. It was at that time I believe the 'whiners', 'pony', 'out of touch' etc talk really inflamed. The other issue was when the administration (at the time) planned on continuing Military Tribunals for "enemy combatants" for the same reasons. I still check in from time to time, mostly just LBN but I spend most of my time in the Sports forum and Lounge.

These days I don't feel particularly excited about the direction this country is going and it isn't because I think the President is some sort of magic man that can fix every problem this country has. In fact I cut him some slack because I feel the culture there in this country that causes us all to be ultimately compromised. But there are specific issues such as civil liberties and the with the wars it appears there is no end in sight where I have many friends on their 5th or 6th tours that I'm disappointed in.

I think one way we could improve the way things are is focus on the 2010 elections. Work to elect progressives to offices and let many Democrats know that they can't take our support for granted.

[defendandprotect]

162. Hi -- thank you for coming!

I think one way we could improve the way things are is focus on the 2010 elections. Work to elect progressives to offices and let many Democrats know that they can't take our support for granted.

If you want to post a separate thread on that just go to the top of the page where you

see the bright blue "Home" and across that line you'll find the "Democracy for America Forum"

which takes you to the wider forum.

I'm still trying to round up more liberals/progressives ---

I think about 60 or more have checked in --

If there's anything you want to say -- go to it!



:)

[Lugnut]

153. I'm in.

Howard Dean still speaks for me.

[defendandprotect]

163. Hi -- hello and thank you --

We've only been at this a day or two but I think about 60 have checked in --

Still trying to round up liberals/progressives --

Meanwhile, if there is anything you want to post just go to the bright blue

line above "Home" . . . and follow overto "Democracy for America Group" and it

will take you to the wider forum and you can post whatever you wish --

whenever you're ready!

[Jefferson23]

154. Tell House Progressives: Honor Your Pledge and Don't Vote for the Senate bill.

Please read and sign the petition.

House progressives are under fire to pass the Senate's terrible bill - without any changes. That means no public option, taxes on the middle class, and massive giveaways to the insurance industry. That's not acceptable.

Sign our petition to Progressive Caucus leader Rep. Raul Grijalva:

The House cannot pass the Senate's health care bill without changes.



http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/signhprog

[defendandprotect]

164. Hi -- I'm signing ... but think this should be a separate thread . . .

go up to the bright blue line above . . . "Home" ... and following along you'll

find "Democracy for America Group" -- hit that and you'll go out to the wider

forum where you can post a separte thread if you wish.

[MannyGoldstein]

157. OK, I'm Here - The Party Can Start Now

The Democratic Party, that is - well, the Democratic Wing thereof.

I want my country back, too!

[defendandprotect]

165. Hi Manny -- thank you for coming ---

If you want to post anything go up to the bright blue line "Home" and over to

"Democracy for America Group" -- and start a thread, if you wish!!

Anytime!!

I'm still trying to round up Liberals/Dems -- we've only been at this a day or

two --



:)

[MannyGoldstein]

169. Fantastic Idea! Thanks! nt

[Goldstein1984]

158. Well, what do you know...

There actually is an underground in the Democratic Underground.

Please consider me one of the group.

[defendandprotect]

166. Hi --- good to see you -- welcome!

Still trying to round up more liberals/progressives . . .

[winyanstaz]

159. Hello progressive liberals :)...I am just checking in :)

I am for Dean, and Kucinich,and anyone else that will stand up for America and the Constitution. :)
I look forward to reading all your posts and sharing ideas of how to turn things around to benifit the people for a change. :)

[defendandprotect]

167. Hello -- thank you for coming ---

We've only been at this a day or two and I'm still trying to round up Liberals/

Progressives --

If there is anything you want to post on any subject, just go up to the bright blue

line "Home" and following across hit "Demoracy for America Group" and you'll be at

the wider DFA forum area --

Anytime you're ready!

A few threads have been posted there so far --

:)

[havocmom]

160. I'm in, such as I am.

The good doctor was always honest with us and he by god showed the way to win involved all 50 states and a healthy grass root based organization.

How long before the DLC thought police toss in some flash bang grenades to disperse us? Sorry, just not feeling my usual spunky self this week.

[defendandprotect]

168. Hi -- welcome . . and you know how many Dems didn't know how many

races we weren't even challenging!!!

I was shocked when I found out!!

Glad you've come in --


I think we have about 60 so far checked in -- still working on it!

:)

[Enthusiast]

170. Hey, all.

Interesting reading here.

I have a question. Please bear with me as my understanding of computers and internet stuff is way under-developed. Is this a thread about progressives or a Howard Dean group? If it is a Howard Dean group where do I find it on DU? I'm not finding it listed anywhere.

[Name removed]

173. Deleted message

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[Politicub]

171. Hi - glad to be here

I was emailed an invitation from defendandprotect. :hi:

It's great to see somewhere on DU when every other thread isn't bashing this person or that one.

When there's public infighting among Democrats, we lose elections.

[Name removed]

174. Deleted message

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[amyrose2712]

172. Me!Me! nt

[Name removed]

175. Deleted message

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[tekisui]

177. I'll be checking in, now.

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

179. Hi -- welcome!!

[Solly Mack]

178. Just wanted to say Hi.

Thanks for thinking of me.

[defendandprotect]

180. Hello -- happy to see so many of us together -- !!

[PuraVidaDreamin]

181. This place is comfy

and cozy.

Peace IN & Peace ON.

deb

[defendandprotect]

182. Hi --- Welcome -- and get started any time in the general DFA forum posting a thread!

Discuss anything you wish --

[Leopolds Ghost]

183. Leopolds Ghost checking in

Will respond as I am able. Lot of stuff happening "at work" for me right now. Keep the flame alive,

[defendandprotect]

184. Agree -- always a lot of stuff to be read at DU general, too --

but at least we have this space open to us when we get time to use it!!

[TriMera]

185. I'm in :) n/t