Uses of this forum for classic Democrats?

[No Elephants]

An affinity group for classic Democrats is great.

At the risk of sounding like McLaughlin---

Issue One: I think this movement has to be about the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party, but not about Howard Dean specifically.

First, not everyone identifies with Deanmania. Kerry was my homie and, at the time, I was clueless about the DLC and his membership in it. I sure do love Dean now, but I don't think Dean will ever run again, anyway. Nor is he still even with Democracy for America anymore. I don't even know that it should be about the Democracy for America Group specifically. For instance, Progressive Democrats for America seems like a good group, too.

Issue Two: I have X amount of posting time on any given day and I like LBN. So, I need motivation and a purpose to be here, beyond venting. I need concrete, specific goals. What will those be?

Issue Three: I tend to want to consolidate things, rather than proiferating. I think there is strength in numbers. Nor do I want to waste limited time and limited energy re-inventing wheels. For instance, is there another place "on the Internets" where liberals can post, organize, share info, etc. that is not open to the general public? Daily Kos? Anyone know? Is the Activist forum heere more appropriate for us? I have no clue and long to be enlightened.

[No Elephants]

1. Too late to edit, but I have a couple of other questions/thoughts.

1/ If this is not going to be about Dean or Democracy for America specifically, should we ask Skinner for a new group? See: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=206x10

2/ Should we post in other DU areas to invite classic Democrats, now oft labeled "liberals," from other DU groups where true liberals are very likely to hang, like the Kucinich group?

[defendandprotect]

4. My personal opinion . . .

I'm still trying to round up liberals and progressive from all over general areas

where I find posts that are "liberal" IMO.

If you wish to try visiting other DU groups to find "liberals" -- great with me --

or to send along any "liberals" you find anywhere at DU --


Meanwhile, we've only been at this 2 days or so -- would like to see the numbers

before we move to rechristen this site -- and think should be LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE FORUM ---

???????????

[No Elephants]

8. Oh, I did not mean re-christening this forum. I meant starting a new one for all

liberals, regardless of whether they are high on, or identify with, Dean/DFA or not. No reason to eliminate this forum.

[Sebastian Doyle]

2. Well, since I'm the one who suggested waking up this forum

I'll say that I have no objection to any and all true liberals and/or progressives contributing.

Basically, if you believe the DLC is the worst thing that ever happened to the Democratic party, we're probably on the same side. Dennis Kucinich, Russ Feingold, Alan Grayson..... all of these guys are with us.

DFA is officially Jim Dean's group, not Howard's but that was done when Howard was DNC chair and couldn't officially take sides. Since he left the DNC though, I think you'll find his name on the DFA site a lot more. It's no secret that he founded DFA.

[No Elephants]

12. Okay. I posted an invitation in the Kucinich Support forum. I don't think

posting one in the Gore, Clinton or Obama forums would yield many "lefties."

[defendandprotect]

3. Hi -- answering easiest questions first . . . . and only my PERSONAL views....

As long as we know you are interested in liberal and progressive cause, I don't see

that you have to be here any set amount of time, at all --

But, I do think we need to see the size of the national liberal/progressive voting bloc

which has to happen from outside DU, of course --- but that those of here can give some

idea of what those numbers might be? And the strength and degree of our liberal and

progressive beliefs?

I think this forum is simply intended to be a beginning -- just a place to start.

The point of using this forum right now is that we are FREE from attack by the righties here.

So we can begin discussions without being assaulted!

But, all suggestions are welcome!


And, yes, presumably all of us who are joining together here are fighting to take back the

Democratic Party and consider ourselves the "Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party."

However, we are specifically joined together here as LIBERALS and PROGRESSIVES who realize

that may not be possible -- and to discuss our concerns in that regard for our nation and

for our "people's" government.

IMO, this is the LIBERAL/PROGRESSIVE FORUM now -- and not the Howard Dean forum, but any of

us are free to express our confidence in him and discuss him -- or NOT!

Many of us were long "clueless" about the DLC . . . and even now I shake my head when you say

Kerry was DLC . . . Kerry was certainly a last pick for me and had I known any of that, I'd have

been very concerned. I did know about HRC -- and I did know that Obama seemed to be going to great

lengths to distance himself from DLC connections which I think makes clear how well they understand

there how much of a negative view there is of DLC!!

Agree re Progressive Democrats -- if I have the right one --

and they have a forum, I think? Think they are more aggressive which is OK with me!

I don't think that having an interest in liberal and progressive discussion should place

burdens or responsibilities on us -- either we're interested and the forum is productive --

or it is meaningless. Let's see what happens . . .

[No Elephants]

11. I am not sure where I saw Kerry's name as a member. Wiki or the

DLC website, one or the other. Inasmuch as I am in Massachusetts, I emailed him about it.

I backed him more because of videos of him when he was testifying against certain American activities in Vietnam than because of anything else. I will never be that careless again. And I think my son volunteered for him because he was desperate to see a Democrat in the oval office. Apart from Clinton, his generation has not seen that. For the same reason, he is more for Obama than I am.

I am very eager and happy to give Obama and the others credit when I see him or them do something that at least seems principled. But, my son is somewhere between me and the hero worshippers Not as all accepting as they are, but very reluctant to see anything amiss. At the same time, he is very aware that we've been heading for a one-party system. I think he was saying that before I ever did.

(sorry to go on about my son, but I think he may be representative of Democrats of his generation because others of his age with whom I discuss such things seem similar.)

[EmeraldCityGrl]

20. My son feels the same way.

He's twenty-three and an Obama supporter. Last night I asked him what he thought on the anniversary of his first year.

My son felt it's only been a year and people are expecting to much at this point. Then asked about his friends, which he

said all support Omama, even the ones that come from conservative families. He also doesn't pay attention to the day in,

day out politics like I do. Sad to think some of our kids spent their memorable lifetimes with Bush as president.

I would add that my son likes Dean and mentioned he still doesn't understand how that media clip could have swayed public opinion.

[No Elephants]

26. My son does pay attention to the day to day. LOL, I've seen him wake up and go straight to his TV

to start yelling at Joe Scarborough! (I can't even watch Joe.)

My son s not totally accepting, but, having waited so long for a Democrat in the Oval Office and Democratic control of Congress at the same time, he rationalizes a lot and makes a lot of excuses. I don't talk much with him about it. I stick to things we can agree on, such as "Republicans stink," LOL.

[TheKentuckian]

5. I'll settle for a little island away from faaaaaaaar Reich, Far Reich, Far Right, Right wing, and/or

klepto-corpo communism as well as the DLC message discipline squad but I hear ya.

1. I'd say classic liberals of all bents.

2. I assume we're making this up as we go? LOL

3. I thought that this group was kinda what was being shot for as far as that? I'm sure there must be the interweb is a HUGH place but we know where this is.

4. This is as good as another group as far as I'm concerned

5. As many good lefties as can be gathered and multiply it by a million sounds good.

[No Elephants]

13. I don't mind posting with the righties, but it is nice to be among kindred souls, too.

However, sometimes, we may wish to take action of some kind, to impact on the real world. For those times, it would be good to be at least loosely affiliatted with one or more groups outside DU, for the strength in numbers thing.

Dunno. I like goals.

[Mithreal]

6. Many of my same thoughts and questions

[Hell Hath No Fury]

7. Some specific goals --

As an American you have three true powers -- your voice, your vote, and your wallet.

Specific goals that encompass all three should be emphasized and actively worked on. Examples:

1) Find and fund progressive/liberal (PL) candidates in local/state/national races.
2) Action alerts on legislation, media stories, events, activities that impact the PL agenda.
3) Develop and share ways to reduce the imapact of Big Business in both politics and our personal lives (Move Your Money is a great example).
4) Buy Blue -- a great movement that seems to have disappeared.

As for Issue 3, I am unsure about any other sort of "clearing house" for PL activism. I think that is one of the problems -- there are so many sites/groups that offer PL information/action but nothing like a "Buzzflash" one stop shopping. :shrug:

[No Elephants]

9. Thanks. Good thoughts.

[Jefferson23]

10. Great list, concise and specific, count me in.

I try and leave links to petitions as well as responses to asinine articles smearing liberal policy. For example, Lanny Davis wrote an offensive and bullshit Op ed for the WSJ about the Massachusetts senate race. There were over 400 responses to his garbage, most of which were calling out Davis on his lies and distortions.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

14. Here's a start --

The following are categories of PL information -- help me fill in this compilation and suggest additional categories:

Blue Companies

Time Warner, $1,713,621, 77% Blue
Viacom, $892,513, 78% Blue
News Corp, $689,549, 61% *
Walt Disney, $606,504, 70% Blue
IBM, $397,936, 68% Blue
Cablevision, $326,842, 68% Blue
Torchmark Insurance Cos., $314,441, 88% Blue
Sony Corp. of America, $287,535, 69% Blue
Working Assets, $234,255, 100% Blue
Costco, $224,803, 99% Blue

COMPANIES TO AVOID:
United Parcel Service, $2,361,922, 71% Red
SBC Communications, $2,028,031, 67% Red
Merrill Lynch, $1,900,326, 72%, Red
Pfizer, $1,465,317, 67% Red
MBNA Corp., $1,453,497, 73% Red
Union Pacific, $1,428,663, 79% Red
Southern Co., $1,041,025, 80% Red
Wachovia Corp, $998,997, 75% Red
Clear Channel Communications, $764,318, 67% Red
General Electric, $747,386, 67% Red

From PoliticalMoneyLine.com, here's a list of those corporations that exclusively, or nearly so(90-100%), support only the Republican Party over the Democratic Party in financial contributions:

Phillips Int'l. (100%),
Cooper Industries (100%),
Flowers Industries (100%),
Harris Corp. (98%),
Illinois Toolworks (97%),
Outback Steakhouse (96%),
ExxonMobil (96%),
National City Corp. (95%),
Wendy's Int' l. (93%),
Anadarko Petroleum (92%),
Timken Corp. (91%),
Halliburton (91%),
Meadwestvaco Corp (90%),
Darden Restaurants Inc. (90%),
Branch Banking & Trust Co (90%), and
Int'l Paper (90%).

Here's a few more in the 80-90% range:
CATERPILLAR 89%
J.C.PENNEY CORP. INC. 89%
GOODYEAR TIRE 89%
CONOCOPHILLIPS SPIRIT 89%
SMITHFIELD FOODS INC 88%
CHEVRONTEXACO 87%
FORD MOTOR COMPANY 84%
CIGNA CORPORATION 83%
OWENS CORNING 83%
CONAGRA FOODS 83%
HOME DEPOT INC. 81%
BAXTER HEALTHCARE CORPORATION 81%
3M COMPANY 80%


Blue Services

Internet Hosting
ThinkHost
http://www.thinkhost.com/socialchange/social-responsibility.shtml

Long Distance
Working Assetts


Political Organizations
DFA

PL Discussion Boards

PL News Sources

PL Congressional Members


Question: Should the emphasis be on "Blue" or PL? Some of those companies deliver the cash to Dems but I would not neccessarily call them PL. I personally don't want to spend money that will end up in the coffers of a Blue Dog.

[No Elephants]

15. Thank you, but what does PL stand for? Progressive/Liberal?

And what does being 70% blue mean?

BTW, if Disney is 70% blue, I'd hate to see what a company that is 70% red is like.

Ditto Time Warner, Cablevision, etc.

Companies that Hathaway owns a good chunk of should be blue, no? Or is that too big an assumption. (Often, when a company is acquired, former management is left in place.)

About 4 or 5 years ago, Target was one of the bluest companies. Anyone know if it still is?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

17. Yes, P/L = Progressive/Liberal

Just trying to save my fingers a few keystrokes. :)

The percentage refers to the amount of money the company donated to Democratic candidates vs. GOP, which makes it a tricky thing. Is that money going to candidates that are Blue Dogs or more corporate friendly?? If so, screw that shit.

Unknownm about Target today, will have to research. There's another thing -- a company such as Target may give $$$ to Blue but may also have a bad record on the enviro or workers -- should that make a difference in their Blue inclusion?

Have been digging around online, finding a lot of great information to compile. Will continue this work and post it next week

[defendandprotect]

21. Wow . . . I'm almost perfect... only one on that list I use is UPS -- !!

And that's because I have an LLBean card which ships free via UPS --

I also hear that LLBEAN is a very right wing company --


What's a "blue" company . . . blue dog???

We use Verizon for telephone, internet and TV now having given up Comcast . . .

which makes $500 million a year on internet porn!!

However, Verizon also cooperated with W on turning over private citizen communications -- right?

Where's UBS on that . . . ??

Unfortunately, my husband has some stuff with them!

I think I may have Goodyear tires . . . on the other hand I had some Firestone tires

back when they could kill you. Only got noticed when I brought my car in for servicing.

Had to all be replaced. Then, I had some tires that weren't ever inflated properly though

we kept asking the service people to check -- that was $300 for four new tires!!!

Consumers are obviously not winning vs corporations on any level--!!

[No Elephants]

24. Thank you for all your work. I think companies tend to donate to whichever Party/candidate

seems likeliest to gain power in an election or to the Party that already is in power. I think we can safely stay away from those that donate mostly red, though.

Disney tends to feature neo fundie child stars, like Britney Spears and the Jonas Brothers. And lord knows the media arms of Disney are not singing the Blues, so to speak, in a desirable way.

I think companies that pride themselves on being socially responsible in hiring and labor policies might tend to be more liberal than not.

[No Elephants]

16. To answer one of my own questions, Daily Kos seems to be deeply and nastily divided.

Maybe that is the big problem with Democrats today, both what once was referrred to as "the rank and file" and the politicians. I don't recall this in my father's day, but maybe I was just missing it?

[Hell Hath No Fury]

18. I think the Parties of today are much different --

than back in the day.

Back then, both parties had their conservatives, their moderates, and their liberals. You could get bipartisanship because the liberals, moderates, or conservatives of booth parties could get together and create something.

Today, the GOP has moved so far to the right they have driven out the moderates and liberals (and some old-school conservatives) of their own party and many of those have landed in the Democratic Party or are Independents who vote "D". I believe that leads to more idealogical infighting within our bursting-at-the-seams tent.

[defendandprotect]

22. Vietnam War, I think, was a great divide --- great deal of right wing violence

in that period --

Kent State -- what was the name of the other college?

The Chicago Convention and riot by police there --

I think that's when the Democratic Party was changing from a party of peace

and anti-war to a party supporting wars of aggression.

Anything after '63 IMO --

[No Elephants]

27. Odd. I'm sure the Republicans would say the violence and disruption came from the Left

and law and order came from the right.

I think you have to look at if from the perspective of someone--often blue collar or barely middle class Democratic--who fought in WW II only to watch the left give his kids access to illegal drugs, maybe get them arrested in a demonstraion, and maybe knock up his daughter. And heaven forbid that guy lived in Alabama to boot.

There was a TV series (or was it a mini-series?) about the Sixties that I watched bits of. I had never really looked at from that generation's perspective until then, only from the perspective of the Left v. "The Establishment," as symbolized by Johnson and Nixon, aka worse and worser, when it came to Vietnam and crushing dissent of any kind.

[janx]

19. What does this have to do with DFA?

:shrug:

[defendandprotect]

23. As a "liberal/progressive" what would you like to be discussing...???

[No Elephants]

25. Nothing specific. Some liberals just started "talking" here.

If you want to start a thread in support of DFA or one of the Deans, though, please feel free.