Saturn in Leo - the Lion in Winter - Myth transmits archetypal knowledge

[Desertrose]

Since we are just beginnning Saturn's journey through Leo, maybe these excerpts from an article my friend wrote for AR magazine, might be helpful....the complete article has much more info.... :)

http://www.queenofcups.com/AR53article.htm

The Lion in Winter -- Saturn in Leo
July 5th, 2005 through September 7th, 2007
by Julie Gillentine

Myth transmits archetypal knowledge through stories and symbolism, but archetypes are complex and sometimes these stories seem contradictory. Saturn’s myths are a good example.
--

Astrological symbolism

Astrologically Saturn is still seen as lord of time, and when he connects to points in our horoscopes we feel his heavy hand. In astrology Saturn’s influence is the embodiment of form, and the dramatic rings which surround the physical planet represent the idea of limitation.

Saturn is at heart a wise teacher if seeming to be a stern taskmaster. When we are truly wise we understand that Saturn plays the role of tough-love teacher. If we accept his lessons we are invariably strengthened in character.

--

Leo, the Lion

Leo is the fifth zodiacal sign. Leo is ruled by the Sun and is the astrological arena in which issues of rulership and dominion are acted out on the astrological stage. Attributes of Leo include pride, dignity, altruism, magnanimity and a love of drama and display. Leo possesses a positive and outgoing energetic polarity. Leo rules the heart and spine and has to do with the faculty of will, important for a king. The lessons of Leo include the principles of dominion, sovereignty, authority, and rulership. It is said that the outstanding characteristic of a lion is bravery and the archetype of Leo includes courage.

--

Saturn in Leo

As Saturn orbits the Sun in roughly thirty years he moves through each sign in sequence. As Saturn exits the sign of Cancer and moves into Leo the focus of attention shifts. With this combination of archetypal influences we are dealing with issues of fatherhood, kingship and rulership.

--

Expressed in a positive way Saturn in Leo infuses consciousness with a heightened sense of responsibility which can motivate appropriate authoritative behavior.
-----

This article is reprinted with permission from
Atlantis Rising Magazine,
Issue #53, September, 2005 - October, 2005



lots more at link...http://www.queenofcups.com/AR53article.htm

[tibbiit]

1. thanks for that saturn piece

Ive just passed my solar return, (and wonder how you get a solar return chart from astrolabe or astrodiest... what numbers do you plug into the program?) and have saturn in leo. So this is interesting to me.

Please continue posting saturn, and saturn return info. It is very interesting:)
tib

[Trillo]

2. A solar return chart is calculated for the moment when

the year's Sun in question conjuncts the natal Sun exactly, meaning with an applying and separating orb of 0. That moment's Sun is placed exactly on the ascendant-->solar return chart.

Saturn return would be done similarly to solar return.

Inherent in any 'return' chart is the calculation of transits relative to natal position to determine the exact time to cast the chart.

Geographic local could be relocated, or not. I would tend to favor relocated though it could be caculated for any local. Bad in one area? Just move....

As to how to operate any particular software, I can't specifically answer. Hint: Look for 'solar return' option in the instructions or menus, etc.

[Trillo]

3. As I'm thinking about geographic local,

I realized that if the Sun (or Saturn) is placed on the ascendant, it forces a longitude issue, rendering that field at least somewhat null. Longitude can shift the midheaven/IC axis, that axis itself is also partly dependent upon latitude.

Therefore, placing the Sun on the Ascendant may be a technique in need of improvement or at least a better definition. I've got two main astrology software products, and both of them force Sun on the 1st house for a Solar return. Since I've learned what I have mostly from using software, this may have skewed my understanding of a solar return chart.

If one is going to place the Sun on the Ascendant anyway, what house system would be most appropriate? Why force a Sun on 1st interpretation and not also force a midheaven/IC (10th or 4th house cusp) axis placement? If we fix all 4 angles, rather than just the ascendant and descendant, we'd want to use an equal house system. If so, the geographic local is rendered completely null with Sun fixed on the ascendant and equal houses.

There are a lot of techniques. I'm not certain that placing the Sun on the 1st is the best way to go, now that I consider the issue more carefully.

[loudsue]

4. Solar Return places Sun on Sun.....

The exact locale of the Solar Return affects the time that the actual return to the degree is affected.

Placing the Sun on the first (asc.) isn't the point, really. It's placing the Sun on the exact degree of the Sun, no matter where you choose to spend your "birthday".

For instance: If the Sun is at 20*10' Libra when you were born in, say, Chicago. But you're going to spend your birthday in London... then you need to calculate the chart to see when, in London, the Sun would hit 20*10' Libra. That would be the Solar Return for where you are when the Sun hits the exact degree. Your 20*10' Libra Sun in Chicago also has an Asc. If you calculate the 20*10' Libra Sun in London, that will have an Asc. also. Trying to put the Sun on the first house cusp (asc.) would only skew the chart. Just let it be. The place where the Asc. hits in the Solar Return, for the place where you are for that moment, is the Asc. that affects the year ahead.

Hope that helps! :)

Solar Returns are one of my favorite fields of study. I was in Nome, Alaska for 9/11, because of the ominous Solar Return I had for that year (birthday 9/12) ! But I chose Nome over Taiwan! It was going to be a REALLY difficult Solar Return, either way I went. But I chose Nome. Looks like I made the better choice! :evilgrin: It still took me 13 days to get home.

:kick::kick::kick:

[Trillo]

5. I must be mistaken,

because the two software products I use are not automatically placing the Sun on the 1st house. My memory is obviously faulty.

My apologies to Dover, this is vastly off-topic

An example chart
Jan 1 2005
6:00 am
32n43
117w09
Local Mean Time (calculated time offset based upon longitude)

Astrolog v1.2
natal: Sun is at 11 Cap 15' 08"
return, 1/1/2006, 12:33 PM.

Chartwheels:
natal: Sun is at 11 Cap 15
return, 1/1/2006, 12:34:08 (doesn't say am or pm)

These two figures are close to agreement

Let's relocate the same chart to London, England, but calculate in both time zones
0:10:00W
51:30:00N


Astrolog:
natal: Sun is at 11 Cap 15' 38"
return 1/1/2006,
2:33 PM (San Diego LMT) or
4:46 AM (London LMT)
difference of 9:47
Since chartwheels won't allow a west coast LMT with England lat/long, so make comparison adjustment:
12:45 PM (San Diego PST)
4:46 AM (london LMT)
difference of 7:59

Chartwheels
natal: Sun at 11 Cap 15
return 1/1/2006:
11:34:08 (PST, not sure if this is am or pm) or
19:33:28 (LMT)
difference of 7:59:20, but individual times seem vastly different.


There appears to be some disagreement. No idea why.

[tibbiit]

6. thanks for replys

I just use the internet astrodiest or astrolabe websites.
My sun is at 3degrees leo. How do I know when it hit 3 degrees?
what figures do I plug into the computer to find 3 degrees? It might be that the internet websites doesnt figure this.
tib

on edit... nevermind:) about my saturn-- it's in virgo at 28 degrees (instead of leo like I thought) Isnt there something about planets being in the later degrees that is important? I have merc. at 29 degrees leo too, thats not that great eh?

[Desertrose]

7. Usually later degrees mean you are completing

the "lesson" of that particular planet in that particular sign.

I have my Saturn @29Leo.

Unfortunately I am not the best one here to help you with chart interpretation.

Do you have any books on Astrology? dang, we used to have a thread on here somewhere that had some good links & books....maybe we can dig that up sometime for you tibbit.

As far as finding when Saturn hits 3ºLeo- thats what you are asking right? If you can locate an ephemeris that should tell you...they are the handiest things. From a quick look at my calendar's ephemeris looks like it'll be about 3ºLeo from Aug 4-11th.

:) DR

[BlueIris]

8. All I know is, things have improved a lot for me since Saturn hit Leo.

I'm a Taurus, Scorpio Rising, Moon in Capricorn. Saturn's last stay in Cancer was brutal for me. Normally, I don't like to "blame" astro changes for problems within my physical and environmental circumstances, (astrology for me is more about my mentality and emotionality) but I think it's interesting that when Saturn entered Cancer, my life pretty much fell apart. Everything that has happened since that time has been in reaction to, and involved rebuilding from the devastation of the early months of the last Saturn-in-Cancer period. In my life, the shift toward more positive positive energy since Saturn moved into Leo has been palpable. I literally feel like a large weight has been lifted from, well, not so much my shoulders, more like my stomach. This is muuuuch better.