On battles, judgment, love, fear....

[OneGrassRoot]

I know DU is most likely NOT a good reflection of society as a whole, but I still find I'm fascinated by the interactions and hierarchies and social oddities displayed here. And how things go in cycles. Cycles fascinate me.

I realized something a moment ago that has been true throughout my time here: I am rarely engaged beyond an initial give-and-take in GD and GDP. And that's cool most of the time, as I'm often merely adding kudos or my two cents about something.

It's when I BEG for input that it bothers me.

It could simply be that I don't post anything of interest, but I really think it's more than that.

I think many people come here -- or any online message board -- to do battle. They seek confrontation and conflict in this anonymous venue. When something happens that is intense within the political world, like the last two days, it's like a million bombs are exploding on screen. People lash out and actively try to start shit; others try to avoid the shit but get sucked into arguments fairly easily.

Of course, there's the ever present bully mentality, putting others down in order to feel better about oneself. The woo-woo threads are a lovely source of those posts.

My posts usually seek to diffuse that, not out of some self-righteous intent but usually out of a desire to understand, to get to the core of the conflict and work through it.

But those posts are rarely engaged. I'm ignored. LOL.

This intensity grows and grows because the discourse here is largely one of judgment.

Rarely does anyone post about ACTION...offering productive ways to deal with our problems. The posts, by and large, are judgmental posts, explaining why they judge this person or that person, or this situation or that situation, as good, bad or ugly.

With judgment comes push-back.

I'm tempted to post what may be viewed as a woo-woo thing, but to me it's not woo-woo at all.

A suggestion to try moving through the day making choices -- including what we post -- based on love, not fear. Wonder how that would go over? ;)

Fear is prevalent. We know this. That's not woo-woo. It IS. And, on a very human level there are many reasons to fear. Some days it's hard to rise above that and I don't judge those mired in it, ever.

Most people have experienced love and know how that feels. It isn't woo-woo. It simply IS.

It's not easy, but most people CAN discern when a choice is based on love versus fear.

Whether it was when BushCo was in power, and now with Obama at the helm, I know I personally need a regular reminder to make choices -- my personal choices -- based on love, not fear, and move forward in that way, one step at a time.

That's what I choose today.

Love, not fear.

:grouphug:

[get the red out]

1. Thank you, that was a very good observation

I think you are on the money with your observation. I went into the stew and posted some positive comments yesterday, as was suggested on ASAH by you and others, and got not one response to them. I tried to be gentle with my wording, or in one case somewhat funny, and not a bite. I think you are correct that some people come here to do battle. During the Bush administration it was a place to vent frustration at the monsters in power as much as we needed, I have found DU one of the few places I can vent my anger at religious institutions and not be looked at as a complete nut or social misfit for it, so I can come here and not be silenced and shamed on the subject. We get used to doing that then for some it becomes the only reason to come to DU, to be able to attack an "enemy". I really think people that want to express themselves sanely, or express an opposing view to what is the going theme will then retreat (as I find myself doing) because what is the use in getting into a fight? I got drawn in a few days ago and ended up feeling bad, I am sure I am not alone. People are here right now to rage and for anyone to cross them is like a Freeper wading in and they must be silenced. Ironic that being silenced in our real life communities is what has drawn so many of us here to begin with.

The posting of gentler comments was a good idea, I actually think the fact that people do not respond means that at least in some sense they would be ashamed of themselves for fighting with something more positive. If we get drawn in we become fair game and what a lot of people are looking for. Many aren't looking for discussion at all. I felt very good after posting my comments yesterday because I wasn't contributing to the negativity. It even made the negative energy easier to brush off. It was like attaining a degree of separation.

[OneGrassRoot]

2. So many good points here, GTRO....

About people not really wanting discussion at all; no response to a positive post could be a good thing; and the irony of being silenced in real life spilling over into online venues such as this where we came for a safe haven.

You know how Morning Glow and FirstLight are twins? I think we are, too. We're usually very much in sync. Hopefully it'll start being in a joyful way rather than just understanding the ickiness of being in a very red area. ;)

:hug:

[get the red out]

9. Like it

:toast:

[MorningGlow]

3. I hear you

You make a very good point, OGR--several, in fact. Yes, people on DU and other message boards absolutely use the power of anonymity to indulge in their basest instincts and emotions. While societal conditioning doesn't allow us to say nasty things and push each other down when we're F2F, lots of people wish they could, so they do it here. And yes, there is WAAAYYYY too much judging going on, and the practice of insulting and tearing down other people to make people feel better about themselves is beyond the pale. I find it quite sickening, quite often. Because as far as I'm concerned, whether an individual is standing in front of you or is separated by several thousand miles and a screen and keyboard, they deserve to be treated the same way--with respect, the benefit of the doubt, and, yes, love.

And the amount of fear on DU is unbelievable. I can see it in the discussions about how much of a disappointment Obama is. What's that based on, but fear? Fear that if Obama isn't our savior, then no one is. Fear that if he doesn't fix everything (AND RIGHT NOOOOOWWW!), nothing will ever get fixed. Fear that he's no different from Bush. Fear that the Dems are no different from the Repubs. (And you know what? That could be tapping into the ultimate fear that we're just the puppets of a single government entity, no matter what the external party names--and that they're not battling each other, because they see the enemy as us instead.)

However (and this is just IMO), too many people simple cannot comprehend what we accept as a simple fact: There is only fear or love. We can only act on either of these two emotions. How our life turns out, even on a daily basis, is based on whether we let fear or love control our decisions. Too many people enjoy playing the victim. "Life sucks. Shit happens. Bad things always happen to me. There's nothing I can do about it." That's fear talking, and a lack of realization that the primary emotion you carry in your heart and energy field affects how you react to the crap that life throws at you. (I'm in NO WAY saying it's like that misinterpretation of The Secret--that if you're a bad person you get cancer or whatever. Bad things happen, but it's all about how you choose to REACT to those bad things that make you who you are.)

So anyway, if you decide to do an OP on the subject, I will support you wholeheartedly. I'll get out my hip waders and my "woo-woo flung-poo deflector shield" and engage all the (same old) naaaasty folks itchin' fer a fight. But I will always keep in mind that there is a basic lack of understanding of the fundamentals with these people. If you can get through to them, then I think you should have your karma cleared for at least 1,000 lifetimes! :hug:

[OneGrassRoot]

5. I could read what you've written all day....

Doesn't matter if you're happy, pissed, upset, introspective, irreverent...I just love to read what you write.

:)

I need to focus on that work thingie now. If I get brave later and dive into the chaos and decide to post about love and fear, I'm coming back here to call in reinforcements!!!

;)

Hope you sleep well tonight. :hug:

[MorningGlow]

8. Awww

OGR you are too sweet. :hug:

Hee--you have NO IDEA how badly I needed to hear something like that right now. I have an overdue article and writer's block as solid and impenetrable as the Great Wall of China. Something like this I guess --> :banghead:
:rofl:

[I Have A Dream]

4. OGR, I don't think that I've ever told you how much I respect you.

Thank you for being you, and thank you for the difference that you make in the world.

:loveya:

[OneGrassRoot]

6. ...

My goodness, how very kind, IHAD! You brought a tear to my eyes this morning. :)

The feeling is most definitely mutual.

:hug:

[mysticalchick]

7. YES!

... to all of this. Great points, all. *Really* great ones. I agree about the fear - in fact, I heard (in several places on the same day, even!) that there are only two main emotions from which all others stem: LOVE and FEAR. The fear is strong even (and sadly especially) here at DU. All that can counter it is love.

I thought yesterday's discussion re: what we can do etc. was a valuable one and I especially appreciated WS's counterpoint because it reminds me that I can think and wish and hope all I want but it is taking that energy and putting it into action that brings it together. If you are guided to put something out in GD, *trust* that whomever needed to hear/see it will. Even if there's no comment. I read many threads and don't often comment (as you can see by the number of my posts) so that doesn't mean I haven't taken in what was said if it's something that resonated.

What's going on right now is exactly the kind of situation that call for what we can offer. Step forward into it.

[OneGrassRoot]

14. ...

Popping in quickly to send a :hug: your way....

[Mist]

10. It's my belief that fear leads to anger, and there's even another level of fear--the

fear the angry ones have at those who aren't fearful. Almost like they're afraid to think there's an alternative to fear, and anger. Quite confused they are...

And MorningGlow--thanks for the deathless phrase "flung-poo deflector shield"! LOL--that's a keeper! Whenever I use that phrase (and I will, I will, it's too good not to), I will credit you. (Props where they're due!)

[OneGrassRoot]

15. That is a great phrase....

MG and FL really have some good ones.

:hug:

[MorningGlow]

18. Snerk you're most welcome, Mist

Use at will! :hi:

[BanzaiBonnie]

11. Thank you OGR, I've been thinking about this subject all day

I've been thinking about kindness and people trying to understand one another rather than winning at any cost.


In my eyes, verbally blowing someone up is not much different than actually blowing them up. I'm going to be writing more of my thoughts and feelings on this subject. I'll share more later.

Again, thank you for bringing this up.

[OneGrassRoot]

16. I look forward to reading whatever you share...

:hug:

[NuttyFluffers]

12. yeah, i'm a 9th level thread ninja myself. so good, i mijin (suicide) my own posted topics.

unfortunately i do the same things that you do, and that let's things sink like a lead balloon. people feel alive when they are competing -- adrenaline junkies. thinking peacefully and coming to consensus? not so much.

but hey, i've had my fun jumping in and throwing shit around, too. it just often feels like a sandbox, though. meh, i'm fine with it. maybe someone else reads 'em.

[OneGrassRoot]

13. LOL....

A sandbox. That's about right!

Thing is, on one hand I don't want to take things too seriously -- and some of the most inappropriate things in intense threads CRACK ME UP and I wonder why others don't just get the joke and lighten up since it IS a message board; on the other hand, I've met my closest friends online, via message boards (and followed up by meeting in real life...lol), and have seen so much accomplished online that, in its totality, it's frustrating when it feels like there's the potential for getting something productive accomplished at DU rather than the nonstop shitstorm.

I don't know about you guys, but my mood fluctuates wildly from day to day. One day I'm serene and want to achieve world peace, the next day I am indeed tempted to jump into the sandbox and fling shit myself, just for the heck of it. I usually stop myself from doing that though, as it rarely ends well. ;)

Today, it's neither.

:hug:

[BanzaiBonnie]

17. Why are we here

I was thinking about the cacophony of opinions and ideas on display at DU and the way they are presented. Sometimes I wonder why I keep hanging around. There is a roughness in many of the forums that can be painful not to mention, it is my BELIEF that it’s downright harmful.

I never wonder why I hang around ASAH. And I’ll take this opportunity to share how much I love and appreciate each of you here. There are times when it is a lifeline.

This computer age and instant communication can serve to bring us together in amazing ways. And if you flip that, it can be just as isolating. And as everything else in life, it is our choice.

We can share great ideas and values. We can share the joys, treasures and feel comfort from others when life is painful. We can come together in large numbers to change our world.

On the other hand we don’t have to look in another person’s face and see the sadness and hurt in their eyes when we are angry or rude and “cut them down to size”. It’s as impersonal as detonating a bomb that maims and kills, from a remote location. With some it doesn’t take much to let it fly and words do hurt.

When people react in ways that hurt themselves and others it’s because of their own insecurity. If we continue to show them love it’s my sincere belief that eventually they will get to the point where they can love themselves enough to reflect that to others.

I also believe that every bit of energy we expend IS SOMETHING. It is real and has a life of its own. Words have meaning and they are an energetic reality.

If we look at ourselves with honesty, we are seething with anger. Anger at ourselves or others, it doen’t matter. It is there, just under the surface. I am far less angry than I was at one time in my life, but it has taken a lot of work. I have had to take responsibility for a lot of stuff I really would rather not have looked at. And still I find pain and anger in myself that needs to be dealt with. I’m always cleaning it up.

As for the ugliness that can get so out of hand on message boards, I have to ask if this is constructive or not. After evaluating the interactions I have to say NO. In the end it is not constructive. While a broad range and number of ideas being shared is a good thing, the manner in which the debate is held is the more important. For me it boils down to why are we here. We are here to have a good life and be kind and generous and loving to one another. No exceptions.

I know this is beyond the scope of humanity yet, but what is our ultimate goal? We are on a local biosphere that is really not so big. And in order to survive and thrive we must get along. This is life. We evolve or die.

Feel free to use this grandma’s rule of “always be as kind as you can”. And start with yourself.

Happy holidays everyone.

[Why Syzygy]

19. I agree

we are all angry. The world is a brutal place. If we are honest with ourselves. I have to wonder about adults who believe children have to be "protected" with false realities. When we grow up it is nothing like we've imagined.

OTOH, I tend to agree with David Wilcock about what's really behind message board hostility. It can be healing. I know it has been in my own life.

+++

REHAB FROM LACK OF SELF-RESPECT THANKS TO SKEPTICAL ATTACKERS

If your own ‘drug’ of choice is unworthiness and lack of self-respect, then wrestling with “Trolls” IS your own rehab – and you don’t graduate the program until you voluntarily check out of the clinic and stop engaging these assailants.

Up until you graduate this type of Rehab, you’ve been projecting your own shadow self onto your attackers. Your shadow tells you, “None of this $#!+ is really true. You are not special. You’re a meat package. You die, you rot and it stinks, so we put your filth in a box and bury it. You don’t deserve love, respect or attention, unless it’s negative.”

That’s a voice inside yourself, and you desperately want to heal it. Most of us seem to have a much easier time healing these things by re-creating the whole drama with someone else, rather than processing it alone, inside ourselves, such as in meditation. (...)
same link.

+++

Others get caught up in the worship of the mind, and become “Highly Intelligent Skeptics,” or “Trolls” as they are often called – those people who haunt paranormal discussion boards and attempt to rip well-intentioned seekers apart with their apparently ‘scientific’ and ‘logical’ arguments – even while their fast temper and nagging persistence is more consistent with the behavior of a two-year-old.

The vast majority of people who are interested in the paranormal have not elevated it to a level where they can discuss it in a reasoned, rational, well-thought-out manner, and Trolls love to gore them in public for it. Don’t fall for it. Don’t feed the Trolls! You will never win!

If you’ve ever wrestled with these types, you’ll know that they invariably engage in something called Intellectual Dishonesty. Even if you make a really good point, they will NEVER acknowledge it. You can never actually get them to change their mind or see your side – they will simply change tactics, such as the old “ad hominem / attack the messenger” canard, or go after someone else and ignore you.

If nothing else, they are content to hurt your feelings and make you miserable. In my own worst-case scenario, I really put a lot of time into one of these folks, and my parting gift was him telling me he would “skull f-k” me “for all eternity”.

So yes… some people’s God Reflex gets caught up in bringing others hurt and pain. This actually satisfies their own wounded ego’s need for a feeling of safety, comfort, warmth and love, which traces all the way back to our infantile stage of development.

This email assailant, as it turned out, had serious physical damage that made him unable to walk normally, and he had retreated into the worship of the mind, since the body was unfulfilling. Once he confessed that to me, he ended up hating me even more.

He assumed I had all these wonderful things in my life that he was missing. Getting me to feel pain brought him a sense of vindication – because he felt that if there really was a God, then he wanted revenge. Therefore, he went after people who considered themselves messengers.

http://divinecosmos.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=293&Itemid=70

++++
That link may not be valid since the redesign of his site.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=245&topic_id=90907

[OneGrassRoot]

20. Wow, Bonnie and Why Syzygy!

Thank you for sharing that, Bonnie! I agree as well, and you bring up so many great points and flesh them out beautifully.

And, Why Syzygy....girl, you are like some kind of walking encyclopedia of brilliance. You and Shallah never cease to amaze me in this regard!!! You took this discussion to a level I hadn't entertained. Thank you for that.

I agree that conflict and even some level of nasty catharsis is helpful, or can be. It's when it doesn't seem to evolve from there and instead devolves into a cesspool of negativity that I sit back and wonder, "Whaaaa? Is this helpful at all?"

Gonna check out the links later today.

Thank you both!

:grouphug:

[Why Syzygy]

22. That puts me in good company!

Thank you for the comparison. :D

[FirstLight]

21. Not just here but everywhere...

the fear lately has been palpable for me and usually i am able to see what isn't "mine" and continue on, but yesterday it slammed me hard!
I am still recovering today, with a headache and puffy eyes from crying all day yesterday. I could NOT function through all the worry and fear and judgement...and what was awful is that it WAS ALL MINE...my own ego had turned on me and i had to work through some of my harshest judgements of self...
And though I KNEW that today would be better and that it would pass, the emotions still took me for a pretty good ride. and there are still lingering pictures to move out of my space as i write this.

Don't know what the answer is OGR, except that you summed it up in the one line about choosing love over fear.

and maybe recognizing that EVERYONE is going through this 'letting go of what is KNOWN" in order to shift to a new reality. and it ain;t easy, sometimes!

I mostly have compassion for them. and i have learned not to rant or ask for validation in circles that are not healthy...and to me GD/GDP are not healthy places for me to process. I have even limited my rambling and weeping HERE in ASAH because i don't want to have my process poked with a stick :)

This falling down and breaking apart of everything is wearing on us all, and we are yet to be through the veil. Hang on sistah, the ride is the time of our life...and we HAVE done this before, many times on several planets and this one as well. we just get to do it different this time, right?

[Silver Gaia]

23. Just popping in to say GREAT thread!

Thank you, OGR, for starting it, and thanks to each of you who have contributed.

I don't have any words of wisdom to add -- just wanted to thank you all for yours. :)

This was a great read on a cold December morning.