The Queen of Cups.

[Cleita]

It seems that this card appears frequently these days on Tarot readings I do on Bush and the White House. She is generally in a position that foretells Bush's downfall. Who is this egnimatic person? Could it be Cindy Sheehan, or Valerie Plame? Or is there another woman out there who fits the Queen of Cups profile? I think we need to watch out for who this is.

In future readings I intend to find out what I can about the Queen of Cups. Let's hope the cards are as revealing as I hope. There is also another figure, the Page of Cups, that appears frequently too. The page I believe in this instance can symbolize a messenger. Could s/he be a reporter or a lesser member of Bush's staff, who will reveal something that will be the catalyst for his downfall?

There will be a downfall. My gut tells me this is certain, however, will the downfall be in time to save our country? I will be keeping close watch on the players who are slowly revealing themselves.

[robertarctor]

1. Sibel Edmonds?

Or maybe it's all three (Edmonds, Plame, Sheehan), and more.

[lavenderdiva]

8. Sibel Edmonds is who I thought of first too.... n/t

[Matariki]

2. B* has a 'yoga' in his chart called Kalasarpa

which is said to indicate a fall from a high position.

[Cleita]

3. Could you explain what you mean by a yoga in that venue?

I'm not that familiar with astrological terms and what does Kalasarpa stand for?

[Matariki]

4. i apologize

The reference is to Vedic astrology. A yoga is a configuration in a chart. Kalasarpa yoga is when all the planets fall between the north node (Rahu) and the south node (Ketu) and there are no planets in the signs with the nodes. It is considered to be a very bad yoga and amongst other things indicates a great fall in life at the pinnacle of achievement.

we can only hope.

[suziedemocrat]

35. Do you find Vedic astrology to be more accurate than Western?

I'm semi-familiar with Western and only vaguely familiar with Vedic - but I'm getting the feeling Vedic may be more accurate at predictions? Do you find that to be true?

[robertarctor]

5. "Yoga" in Vedic astology means union of planets

The way the various planets interact, combine or are positioned in a Vedic chart are called "yogas"; each yoga has a specific name and characteristics.

[tanyev]

6. Wouldn't it be funny if something really ticked off Condi and

she started talking? I doubt that it will be her, though.

[Cleita]

7. No. It wouldn't be I don't think. She doesn't fit the profile

Of the Queen of Cups. Rice would be most likely represented by the Queen of Swords, "a woman, subtle, keen and quick-witted. May signify widowhood, privation and separation. This queen could point to a childless woman who is unmarried." Seems closer to Condaleeza than the Queen of Cups.

I'm beginning to think more and more that this is Valerie Plame. The cards surrounding her are those of government, of secrecy and of having her wealth taken from her, or in her case, her career being ruined by the revelations about her. This are past and present. The cards that come with her in the future are death, the ten of swords and other minor arcana cards that signify loss and endings in companionship with the King of Cups or of Wands, which could be Bush.

Also, she is sometimes paired with the chariot reversed, which could mean the fall of a government or at least of the present occupants of the White House. I don't think our whole government will collapse with the fall of the House of Bush.

[lavenderdiva]

9. does your reading give you any time frame?

will Shrub's downfall be before his term is up? This is very interesting, and gives me hope!!!

[Cleita]

10. I have found time frames really hard to pin down.

If I meditate on what will happen in a month, I don't always get anything specific. If I meditate on asking about an outcome, then I get better information, but no time frame. I think though that I haven't figured out how to ask the question and get both.

[lavenderdiva]

11. I will just be patient, and believe that the end is coming!

I'm sooo glad you posted your reading for us to share!

[FreedomAngel82]

15. Everytime I sit and meditate on Bush

I don't ever get anything past mid/late summer 2006. I don't know what that is about or if it's just me. :shrug: I don't get anything really confirming him.

[Cleita]

16. I'm thinking that you might be right.

The cards don't want to tell me yet when it will be over, just that it will be over in time.

[BlueIris]

17. Me either. Can't get anything to come out of my attempts at

vision quests searching for information about the future, either. Actually, everything about the future past this fall is kind of a blur.

[Eloriel]

12. I hope the King of Cups and/or Wands

isn't her husband. :-(

Why don't you give us more descriptions (key words) for the Queen of Cups? That might help stimulate a little more discussion -- and intuition -- on who it is.

[Cleita]

13. Oh darn, I wish I could.

Sometimes I don't care for the professional descriptions. However, this woman, and she is a woman not a girl, is supposed to be your typical Aryan ethnicity, wife, partnership type, but yet a "queen" in her situation.I really hate pinpointing the blonde thing because it could be someone quite different, but that's what the professionals tell you. So in this case the cards are pointing to a fairly entitled person of the establishment. Every single one of the women mentioned on this thread can fit into the superficial description. Now, it gets interesting when you pair the cards surrounding her.

Also, be aware that I have done readings about various other players in this government miasma with different questions and she shows up frequently. I will digress for a moment to tell you about when the Tower used to appear in my readings with frequency. The Tower came to mean 911 to me over time, but eventually stopped appearing until recently it reappeared on a different reading. I won't react until it starts appearing a lot again.

But back to the Queen of Cups. The cards that surround her seem to point to Valerie more than anyone, but what Robertactor pointed out could be true. It could be all of them. One of the reasons Valerie seems to be the woman in question is because she appears reversed a lot. So it is someone you would expect not to be all the sweetness and light that the Queen of Cups should be.

Also, the cards that surround her seem to point to a lot of secrecy and deception, maybe killings of people who can testify or shredding of documents. I wish the cards weren't so general and medieval in meaning. I have to try to inject a lot of modern meanings into them and I wonder if I am right.

[Eloriel]

14. the Queen reversed

because she appears reversed a lot. So it is someone you would expect not to be all the sweetness and light that the Queen of Cups should be.


Or, perhaps she and her life were upended? Turned upside down?

Also, the cards that surround her seem to point to a lot of secrecy and deception, maybe killings of people who can testify or shredding of documents.

Sounds like a description of the CIA in part, but also the activities of her enemies.

[BlueIris]

18. Laura Bush?

The Queen of Cups can also represent a person in some way influenced by addiction (as all figures in the Suite of Cups can). I've kind of been wondering where she's been the last few weeks. When I asked one of my roommates, the recovering alcoholic, she immediately suggested, "treatment?" To me, one of the most compelling issues surrounding Bush, especially with regard to family and Laura, is the fact that he's an untreated ex-addict (although I think the ex part of that label is kind of in question at the moment) married to another ex-addict, as often happens. Of the pair, I think Laura is more likely to be the one in control of her sobriety, but who knows. The Queen of Cups is also symbolic of an extremely emotional person, possibly someone who must overcompensate for a lack of emotion in her environment with excess emotion or drama--I definitely think Laura, as she is marketed by the G.O.P., helps much of their "base" believe in Bush's humanity because of the emotion and heart she insists their marriage has. She's Bush's human credential. Queen of Cups can also indicate an exhausted person, perhaps someone who has been overworked, which she would be by this point, considering how busy they kept her during the fundraising months of the campaign. Not sure how that would fit into work with Tarot that also conveys Bush's impending downfall, though, unless Laura has a role to play there somehow.

[Cleita]

19. There is another woman who is emerging as well

Brigadier General Janis Karpinski, who was busted down to a Colonel before she retired from the National Guard. She recently gave this interview about the Abu Ghraib prison abuses.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/082405Z.shtml#1

It's very damning of people in high places like Rumsfeld, Cheney and higher ups in the Pentagon. If this goes mainstream and some Congressmen get the courage to call for an investigation, the Bush administration will be in deep doodoo. The fact that the two main characters are here, the woman in high places or the Queen of Cups and the messenger, the Page of Cups, or the reporter makes a good case.

I'm not dismissing your idea that it could be Laura Bush. There would have to be someone, a reporter, that she speaks to like deep throat, however I don't think Laura would squeal. They would kill her or shut her up somehow. Look at what they did to Martha Mitchell during the Nixon years, when she started speaking to the press about what was going on.

[BlueIris]

20. I hadn't even thought of Karpinski.

Even though I saw her "confession" noted on several sites this week. It's just hard for me to see Karpinski as a person who could be represented by the Queen of Cups, but that could be because I am so critical of her and how culpable I think she was in the Abu Graib horrors. The Cups figures, in my readings of Tarot, have always included people and influences with some measure of generosity and human conscience to them. Karpinski's humanity is in question, in my eyes, even moreso than someone like Laura. But opinions may vary on the signficance of the Cups suite to embody "the woman," of course.

I admit, Laura's a long shot as someone who could somehow pose a threat to the Administration. It's interesting that you mention Mitchell's wife and the retribution she suffered--another theory my roommate has about where Laura is at the moment is, "imprisoned in 'the Tower' for those unseemly comments she made during the correspondent's dinner." Allegedly, the religious "base" disliked the immodesty in her performance there, and my roommate believes she's being essentially punnished (pointlessly, as I doubt her 'show stealing' act was her idea) for speaking out in a way that was contrary to her normal Stepford Wife image (the deviation is probably more controversial to the so-called Evangelical Christian Voters than the supposed immodesty of her comments).

[Eloriel]

21. It's my understranding that Tarot cards don't necessarily apply to

just ONE person. Or even any person, even the Court Cards. They may, adn perhaps usually do, but they may also describe certain conditions, etc. Or BOTH.

Is this not correct? I keep seeing an effort to identify ONE person to go with this court card and ONE person to go with that one, and maybe this or that card is MORE than one person, or MORE than one person AND a condition or event (like a MESSAGE for the Page of Cups instead of a MESSENGER) -- ??

:shrug:

[Cleita]

22. The way I was taught is that, although there are general meanings

for each card, they are just a guide. The cards mean what you think they mean. Since they are really a tool to help your intuition, each reader may be inspired by a different meaning. The Queen of Cups could be an office rather than a person, but in this case it seems it is a woman very much involved in politics and with the Bush Administration. The Page of Cups could also be a child or even a letter, but again in this case, my intuition screams media, a person who is going to reveal something about this woman that is very important.

Since this has been revealed over time in various readings and in conjunction with other cards that point to a person, it's sort of a mystery who this will be that brings down the Bush administration and the neo-cons since there are so many contenders. Time will tell. I'm trying to set up a mind set to ask who the Queen of Cups is. It's just my concentration is more distracted now by another 9-11 attack that may be looming and I think this is where I am being led.

Tarot is very personal. The cards mean what the reader thinks they mean although we like to ask what others think in case they might have an intuition that is clearer.

[Proud_Lefty]

25. Where is the next 9/11 attack leading you?

That's a little alarming, and many have recently been fearing this, especially with Bush pushed up against the wall by all the different adverse forces.

[Cleita]

26. I can't say now.n/t

[Maine-ah]

23. what about the reporter that has been in jail?

I can't remember her name at the moment, but it all has to do with the whole Plame scandal.

[Cleita]

24. Judith Miller.

Patrick Fitzgerald, who is investigated the Plame affair, had her jailed for not revealing her sources even though she never wrote an article about it. I think Robert Novak has probably told everything though. Whatever Fitzgerald has, he is really holding it close to his vest right now.

[divineorder]

27. Considering what she knows

Judith Miller would be an extremely dangerous person to kick to the curb. If the Right Wing makes the decision that she's expendable...remember the saying about a woman scorned.

Perhaps what's needed is a group Tarot reading. We can all ask the question, and a person shuffles cards and pulls them, and we can each intuit the meaning. How we can do this visually, I'm not sure how, but perhaps someone can figure it out.

And a neglected tool may also be horary astrology. A question's birth time may contain the seeds of an answer if you follow certain horary rules:

First three degrees of a rising sign

Not yet culminating
Last three: already decided
Saturn in the Seventh: bad calculations
Don't ask when the moon is void

As for female cups, don't forget secretaries and female aides. Who know all of the documents and overhear all of the conversations. If a few of them get some conscience,there can be a lot of needed info leaked to the right people at the right time.

[Cleita]

28. I never have learned much astrology and I'm not

about to start at my age. But if the astrologers want to work on this, it could clarify many things.

[okasha]

29. Just maybe. . . ..

There are several threads in LBN and GD on Katrina and the hideous--possibly permanent--damage the storm may do. There's also speculation that that damage could bring Bush down. So I wonder--could the mysterious Queen of Cups (Water/feminine energy) be Katrina?

[Cleita]

30. You beat me to it.

Yes, could it be Katrina? What irony.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4483423&mesg_id=4483423

[BlueIris]

31. Wow. Good calls. Interesting. nt.

[BlueIris]

32. Just for the record, I've been seeing the Queen of Cups lately, too.

Usually in the third, ninth or tenth placement in my usual celtic cross spreads, also usually in connection with The Emporer Rx, the High Priestess and the Empress. Some of these readings are what have totally convinced me of that there will be a downfall for Bush--it's been a long time since I saw The Emporer upright in any position in any spread I've done. Yes, I know that this could have many different explanations, but none of the spell anything good for the future of Bush--and the establishment he represents.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

33. When I used to do readings I often

used the Queen of Cups to represent myself. Cindy? Maybe. I find her maternal, nurturing. Come to think of it, it might represent the mothers of this country getting together to bring his downfall?

[BlueIris]

34. Queen of Cups as symbol for collective mothers' movement is good.

Sounds plausible to me.

[LiberalEsto]

36. Katrina?

Cups represent water, and this hurricane will certainly dump a lot of water on New Orleans.

[Cleita]

37. See post #29. n/t

[BlueIris]

38. As more time passes, I think the Queen is Katrina.

In my deck, the Queen of Cups looks so angry, sorrowful and with such distain at the oddly shaped cup in her hands, which looks more like an emporer's crown to me today than ever before. In my deck, the cup has two horn-like wings on each side, and a cross on the top--protrusions that to me, embody the worst traits of Bush's Administration, and the damage it has done to America.

[Bluestar]

39. Katrina Queen of Cups = "bowl" of New Orleans?

Hi Blue Iris:

I agree, I think the Queen of Cups is Katrina. Also the connotation of "cup" compared to the description of New Orleans as being in a "bowl" seems eerily similar.

[BlueIris]

40. Oooh, interesting.

The cup in my QofC card has a "dome" or upside-down bowl shape atop it. Curious. It's a good thing then that the Emporer card in always reversed in the spreads I've done which ended up featuring this card. I know it's horrid to look at the political silver lining in all of this when people are suffering, but: Good luck, George. I doubt you'll have any.