Science Article: Why Great Minds Can't Grasp Consciousness

[Dover]

I do wonder if Science will ever be able to adequately identify, define and understand Consciousness and a "theory of everything" any more than one can with any fullness explain beauty or a symbol or any system of wholes..or ourselves. Perhaps it is impossible because we can never become objective due to our place within (rather than outside) of this whole. It strikes me that it's like the 4 blind men describing the elephant. All are valid, but incomplete.


Excerpt from articl:

Beyond the mystics

Roger Penrose, a mathematical physicist at Oxford University, believes that if a "theory of everything" is ever developed in physics to explain all the known phenomena in the universe, it should at least partially account for consciousness.

Penrose also believes that quantum mechanics, the rules governing the physical world at the subatomic level, might play an important role in consciousness.

It wasn't that long ago that the study of consciousness was considered to be too abstract, too subjective or too difficult to study scientifically. But in recent years, it has emerged as one of the hottest new fields in biology, similar to string theory in physics or the search for extraterrestrial life in astronomy.

No longer the sole purview of philosophers and mystics, consciousness is now attracting the attention of scientists from across a variety of different fields, each, it seems, with their own theories about what consciousness is and how it arises from the brain.

In many religions, consciousness is closely tied to the ancient notion of the soul, the idea that in each of us, there exists an immaterial essence that survives death and perhaps even predates birth. It was believed that the soul was what allowed us to think and feel, remember and reason.

Our personality, our individuality and our humanity were all believed to originate from the soul.

Nowadays, these things are generally attributed to physical processes in the brain, but exactly how chemical and electrical signals between trillions of brain cells called neurons are transformed into thoughts, emotions and a sense of self is still unknown...cont'd

http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/050808_human_consciousness.html

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Insights Into Consciousness:

http://www.geocities.com/player2000gi/consciousness.htm


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Dane Rudhyar's Philosophy of Operative Wholeness:

http://www.khaldea.com/rudhyar/pow_1.shtml

[KittyWampus]

1. So I Throw Myself Under The Tracks Of Countless Intelligent Design

threads here on DU.... basically trying in vain to make DU'ers understand that Science is not Science when it ignores, belittles or refuses to account for Consciousness.

It is hypocritical of Scientists to say that Consciousness can't be studied... since Science is the study of Nature and Consciousness is a part of Nature it follows that it CAN be studied.

Furthermore, it's BEEN studied for thousands of years.

Mental Science is already highly developed and equipt with Language and Symbols.

I've been studying Mental Science for about 10 years now.

Sad how so many are trapped within the 3 Dimensional coffins of Space and Time.

Materialism and Reductionism have run their course and must be exercised from Humanity.

[Dover]

2. Does consciousness itself have to shift before it can accomodate

a true study of consciousness?

[KittyWampus]

3. I think collectively it has begun Dover. We all witnessed 9/11 together.

we can all communicate via the internet...albiet with the umbilical chord of our computers.

IMO, what's really missing is Creativity.

Among individuals and in our society as a whole.

That whole 'vision' thing.

Perhaps we can look forward to establishing a true all encompassing Group Identity.

We need leadership. People who REALLY are Uniters.

People who call Humanity together to build something beautiful and uplifting.

That's one reason why war is so appealing on a base level. It gives us the feeling we're accomplishing a Mission. But the destruction is so much easier in the short term than creating.

I wish Kerry had made the Apollo Project the crux of his campaign.

[Trillo]

4. You seem to be in support of Intelligent design.

Is that correct?

I haven't publicly taken a position. I DO think scientists have much yet to discover. But sometimes I wonder if their claims of failure to understand and 'running out of town on a rail' anyone who fails to agree with them isn't more of a red-herring mask than a genuine position.

If a scientist discovered how to time-travel, why would they share that info with the world?

(It's a rhetorical, no answer is asked for)

Edited to add: Respect for the First Amendment, it seems to me, must include respect for the Athiest.

[KittyWampus]

6. Just To Clarify, I'm In Support Of ID Up Til People Start Talking About

a "Designer" or Being who does the design.

This rather than the Universe & Nature having an inherent capacity for Design.

Someone thankfully pointed out its called Pantheism ala Plato and Pythagorus. :)

Thanks for being kind and I appreciate your post.

[Terran]

14. That sounds like my position on ID too.

I don't think the concepts of "intelligent" and "design" even really apply to God, if one believes there is a Divine. The people who support ID for political purposes, if they are even believers, have a very parochial idea of what God is, considering the powers they ascribe to 'him'. I too believe that the universe, as I understand that term, is in part a creation engine, and "design" is just an inherent part of what the universe is and does. I think of the Divine as the single organizing principle underlying it all, and that principle has nothing to do with any gods worshiped on Earth (except distantly).

[mhr]

5. The Spectrum Of Consciousness

<>

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=kB2DDGyBvz&isbn=0835606953&itm=28

[KittyWampus]

7. kick for Dover who has moved onto different playing fields

:)

[DemExpat]

8. Yeah, wish she would "double post" the fascinating info she finds

and thinks of for us here.....:evilgrin:

DemEx

[loudsue]

12. Where has Dover moved to??

:cry: There aren't many of the old crowd left in this forum now, are there?

[bloom]

9. The article doesn't have anything to do with

the Age of Aquarius - the Water Bearer - but I couldn't help but notice the connection...

Like the wetness of water

According to Greenfield, the mind is made up of the physical connections between neurons. These connections evolve slowly and are influenced by our past experiences and therefore, everyone's brain is unique.

But whereas the mind is rooted in the physical connections between neurons, Greenfield believes that consciousness is an emergent property of the brain, similar to the 'wetness' of water or the 'transparency' of glass, both of which are properties that are the result of -- that is, they emerge from -- the actions of individual molecules.

For Greenfield, a conscious experience occurs when a stimulus -- either external, like a sensation, or internal, like a thought or a memory -- triggers a chain reaction within the brain. Like in an earthquake, each conscious experience has an epicenter, and ripples from that epicenter travels across the brain, recruiting neurons as they go.

Mind and consciousness are connected in Greenfield's theory because the strength of a conscious experience is determined by the mind and the strength of its existing neuronal connections -- connections forged from past experiences.

[KittyWampus]

13. Outstanding Find! Thanks for posting, you're a peach

[Quakerfriend]

10. Hey Dover, I've missed you girl!

:9

I do believe that scientists will someday be able to 'define' consciousness. It seems that we are moving toward this much more rapidly in the past several years.

My favorite book that touches on this subject somewhat is Reinventing Medicine.

[Quakerfriend]

11. Researchers seek brain wave access to bank accts

http://www.physorg.com/news9034.html

Sorry, I just had to stick that in here!

[hvn_nbr_2]

15. Interesting

The thing they're directly working on there seems interesting and potentially useful, but it also leads toward some scary stuff, in my mind.

I got an interesting Google ad on that page that led to a site for headphone-less brainwave entrainment technology.

[Gin]

16. Where is the "mind" located?

g