What are your thoughts on the passage of the HCR bill?

[SeattleGirl]

I'm happy, I have to admit, even though I also think there are problems with it that need to be fixed.

And I am happy that in the face of the kind of hatred and ugliness that has been demonstrated over the past few days, it passed.

The bill needs a lot of tweaking and improving, no doubt.

Just wondered what folks here thought about it.

[get the red out]

1. Thank you UNIVERSE!!!!!

We KNOW this country needs more, but we have to face that anything in the face of all the corporate-induced ugliness (Fox News created tea baggers) that has come into play, is good. When I step back and look at it what we saw was an uneducated, fear-based minority, guided by corporate interests quite literally attempting to end democracy as we know it, what they have been carefully trained to call "liberty" is nothing more than minority rule by the rich. If this bill hadn't gone through then all hope for any reform would have been lost for another 20 years minimum and we would have faced the threat of the faux grass-roots idiots gaining a lot of power for their corporate masters. OMG, how do you spell Fascism?!!!!!!!

That's how I saw it, as literally a battle for just the crumbs we have left of actual democracy. Keep in mind I live in a state where progressives speak in whispers among themselves so we won't "start anything" by having a difference of opinion that upsets the emotionally unstable conservatives.

I haven't been able to watch the news for 6 months, none of it, the tea baggers and the attention they got - knowing they were a creation of Fox News, and that there was a misguided minority of "progressives" that threatened to go along with them because they rightfully want more (and probably live in liberal areas where they can actually voice their opinions and not be completely marginalized by the word liberal and had no idea the true racist, hateful motives of these people) scared me to death. I literally saw it as an end game between holding on to the scraps of a failing democracy with some hope for improvement, and loosing everything. EVERYTHING. Let's face it, a lot of the so-called tea partiers and the rank and file of the Republican Party in general is against health care reform because they don't want "the other" to get something. "The Other" is basically someone who isn't white. A sick boil on our society that needs to be lanced, IMO, racism.

Yea, I'm happy, the hateful, racist, Fox News, corporate controlled element has been kept at bay for another day. I am at a point where I don't think too much of this country, probably because of the attitudes I am surrounded by in Kentucky. But I'm happy, there will be people who can actually have health insurance that have never had it, sick people will be less marginalized and treated like second class citizens. It is a small step toward having a country that is capable of caring for it's fellow human being. Small is much better than nothing or stepping backward because even the good insurance coverage that state jobs offer is being torn to shreds by conservatives in this state, they are trying to harm as many as they can as fast as they can. They want all tax money to go to weapons and corporations. We are at a huge turning point, I can feel it!!! A positive turn has happened.

I really believe that once people can see that the government has given them just a small right they never had before, a generation could mentally change and maybe the spell of Fox News and Limbaugh will start to break. Then progressives can push for more, maybe even take some of that murderous weapons money and put it toward the citizens that worked hard to pay the taxes. We have a lot to over-come, a lot of propaganda. But if people can see that the old war paradigm, the greedy attitudes of the past no longer work; then we have hope. This is a first step toward a long journey down the hope path IMO.

edited because I can't properly complete sentences in the morning :)

[I Have A Dream]

2. All I can say is "Here, here!" and "Amen, sister!"

:applause: :yourock:

[OneGrassRoot]

3. I second the "Amen, sister!"

:applause:

I agree. It's what we talk about here so often. The bill is far from perfect, but there ARE positives to focus on. Perhaps by focusing on these positives we can amplify them and empower those in DC with integrity to continue to MAKE IT RIGHT.

Squashing the bugs like Fox and Rush in the process is a delightful gift.

:grouphug:

[get the red out]

4. Yes! Fox and Rush need to be the past!

If people can reach a point where listening to such vile crap becomes unacceptable, then there is hope for some real change. When we think back to the screaming and shouting and pushing back that has occurred with every step forward in this country, we end up wondering how the dissenters could have every had such bizarre opinions; things such as women in the military used to be a big deal with horrific push back, today REPUBLICANS say the words "brave men and women of the military" without pause. There is an historic plaque dedicated to the first African American admitted to the University where I work, AND HE IS STILL ALIVE! Now the student body here has frequently elected an African American student as student body president without a thought, within the first student's lifetime.

Once a small opening is carved in the defensive wall of the fearful, historically that opening only gets bigger until the majority of society wonders why the wall was there to begin with. I am starting to have hope of a paradigm shift, as they have shifted so many times in the past. But it never happens without a lot of screaming, gnashing of teeth and slinging of snot. Grab your ear plugs the sound will be deafening for a while.

I appologize for my long-winded-ness in this thread.

[I Have A Dream]

5. "...slinging of snot"...

Oh, gtro, you have such a wonderful way with words. :rofl: :thumbsup:

Your self-described long-windedness here is much appreciated by me, at least. :hug:

[MorningGlow]

6. I'm thrilled

I wanted single-payer health care, but I recognize this as a START. Actually, in a way it's not about health care at all; it's about turning the tide against the negativism, republican control, and corporatism in Washington.

Electing Obama was a step. This bill is a step. Each step takes us farther away from the deadly reality of a republican-controlled world and closer to the brighter, more positive reality we chose for ourselves.

We're building a solid foundation that Faux Nooz can't tear down. It's hard to be patient, but building a solid foundation takes time. (I do hope it speeds up exponentially though. :P )

[WhiteTara]

7. me too.

I doubt that I will have any relief personally until I get on medicare in a few years. When I dropped my insurance about 5 years ago, it was $800 a month for just me. But at least I'm not a pre existing condition anymore!

I think that like all bills, it will grow as time goes by. If we can keep the pubies from taking over in November.

[LiberalEsto]

8. It's nowhere near enough

and I'm sure the insurance corporations will milk every drop they can from it.

[kentauros]

9. I'm ambivalent about it.

I'm happy something passed, but not happy with what we got. I'm also very disappointed with how little our representatives "represented" us. Until we get publicly-funded elections and outlaw all lobbying, this is the kind of legislation we can expect for years to come.

[get the red out]

10. Election money and lobbying

Those are the two greatest threats to democracy we have. I would go so far as to say that they are a threat to the entire world because of the power and money of this country those with big money seek to control, and usually do control.

[kentauros]

14. Exactly!

And if you notice, they are also the lowest-priority when it comes to government-changing legislation.

I can't predict the future like some of y'all here, so I don't get the feeling much will truly change in our government until we can get these two priorities at the top and really reign in our government. If there was some good way of educating the willfully ignorant in this country, then maybe we would see an actual "grassroots" campaign of change. While the corporations control the means of mass-communication, that's going to be a very tough order...

[conscious evolution]

11. The only good thing I see

is that it shined a big bright spotlight into some very dark places.

[FirstLight]

12. I can't get the vote out of my head...

first, who are those 34 dms that voted against, and where does their money come from...bet you that they are DEEP in the corprate pockets...

and second, now that we know we can PASS legislation without a single rethug vote...I'd like to think that more progressive bills will find their way into law before November!

"more please!" :woohoo:

[mysticalchick]

13. You have to start somewhere ...

... and the fact that even this little bit was such a struggle indicates how much work we have in front of us. Breaking this barrier was HUGE, actually. I think it truly did shine a light on some of the well-hidden machinations of those who have agendas other than the greater good and that's a definite positive.

Are there things I dislike in this bill? Absolutely. But at least we have a place to start and I don't think the importance of that can be underestimated.

[northernlights]

15. it's not HCR, it's HIR -- even the administration now calls in Insurance Reform

as a bill it's a mess. I was very unhappy with mandates and no public option (prefer single payer). I am not happy that they caved on revoking the anti-trust exemption. I am not happy that they caved on drug imports. I'm not happy that Obama is preventing (or trying to prevent) state-level single-payer. There is NO competition to an industry that offers no added-value, and therefore no real price caps.

BUT:

1. I learned late in the day yesterday that the mandates have NO teeth. The penalty starts out very low, climbs quickly. But there is no penalty -- either civil or criminal -- if you don't pay the penalty! :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: So basically, they "caved" to the insurance industry by increasing the penalty from $250/year to $695/year maximum. But if you don't pay the penalty, apparently nothing happens. :wtf: :crazy:

2. you have to start somewhere. Hopefully next they'll extend medicare to people 50+. The carrot to the industry is that we're a "more expensive" group.

3. it needs more than a few tweaks. It needs to be replaced by single-payer and real competition for drugs. But it will take time to do that...to extend basic, fundamental care to all citizens and leave exotic, "cadillac" care for the insurance industry.

4. I took great pleasure in the sound of freeper heads exploding. :D Also to the hurricane force winds that blew through Florida last night as Costa Ricans collectively breathed a big sigh of relief when Rush changed his "mind." :rofl:

[BuelahWitch]

27. I can think of things that will happen if you don't pay the penalty

Withholding of tax refunds, denial of student aid, deducting it out of your Social Security benefits. I don't like the mandate at all and I don't like this bill. And no, I don't have health insurance either.

[northernlights]

31. my student aid has already been cut off

Along with most of my fellow students. So that one is too late.

as to tax refunds, I've spent 10+ hours attempting to file my federal tax return, so far with no luck. I am unable to find some forms and have given up searching irs.gov for them. I just spent 2 hours downloading software so I could "free file" only to find the "free file" form isn't working properly. I then spent 15 minutes attempting to send an email notifying them of the technical difficulties, only to be unable to send the email.

Nothing works in our country any more. Nothing.

So I really, truly don't give a flying fuck. By the time it's time for me to collect social security, it will be gone too. I am done.

So they can go ahead and threaten to take it away. They ALREADY HAVE.

[JanusAscending]

16. I am TOTALLY elated!!

Best thing to happen for "the people" since Obama was elected! It's not perfect...but it's a start! Sorry to say, it's enjoyable to my soul to see the dark side's heads blowing up!! Call it divine retribution if you like, but I LOVE IT!!:bounce: :toast: :bounce: :fistbump:

[Cleita]

17. I think they missed the boat in doing something that would help

everyone instead of leaving many people still uninsured. It was basically aimed at improving health care access for the middle class. Many of the poor will still not have health care that aren't poor enough for Medicaid but too poor to buy the mandated insurance.

[Digit]

23. It will work out for some, but not for me personally

Anyone over 50 can be charged up to 3 times as much as a younger person and I am over 55.
Plus I have pre-existing conditions.
And like I posted in another thread...I don't qualify for medicaid.

Maybe I will eventually find a job and one that offers health benefits would be my preference.

[Cleita]

25. Too bad the idea of lowering the Medicare Age to 55 didn't go anywhere. n/t

[Fire Walk With Me]

18. Great event, great thread!

I agree with what everyone has said:

-It is a miracle that it passed
-Many money'd forces will seek to torpedo it
-It requires tweaking but had to happen in order for those tweaks to be even possible
-Freeper heads exploded, clean-up on aisle 5...

I prayed for this so very long and intensely...Obama himself appeared both elated and angry at those who haven't stepped up and done the right thing, which may include the American people themselves; I can't say. This is indeed a huge thing, and it begins the split between money/control and those who just want to live in the world, as one of my teachers said.

(big happy sigh of relief!!!)

[crikkett]

19. "This is what happens when the President doesn't take a vacation every 3 days"

I'm doing a snoopydance.

[Silver Gaia]

20. I'm very happy about it!

Maybe my uninsured daughter will get some help with her health problems sometime soon.

It isn't perfect, but what is? It's a start, a move in the right direction. Very few things start out anywhere near perfection. It's a process, a journey, toward that goal.

And speaking of moving in a direction, I thought it was auspicious that this was passed at the time of the vernal equinox. We begin in a time of balance and move toward the light. I like that image. :)

[rumpel]

21. I agree. It is a start.

But it seems a big one.
I would really have wanted Teddy Kennedy to have been able to comment on this.
And I wish all our reps having had the courage of supporting the bill will remain.

[Fire Walk With Me]

22. "I would really have wanted Teddy Kennedy to have been able to comment on this."

Ah....(sad)...

Obama has honored those who came before in his email this morning:

"For the first time in our nation's history, Congress has passed comprehensive health care reform. America waited a hundred years and fought for decades to reach this moment. Tonight, thanks to you, we are finally here.

Consider the staggering scope of what you have just accomplished:

Because of you, every American will finally be guaranteed high quality, affordable health care coverage.

Every American will be covered under the toughest patient protections in history. Arbitrary premium hikes, insurance cancellations, and discrimination against pre-existing conditions will now be gone forever.

And we'll finally start reducing the cost of care -- creating millions of jobs, preventing families and businesses from plunging into bankruptcy, and removing over a trillion dollars of debt from the backs of our children.

But the victory that matters most tonight goes beyond the laws and far past the numbers.

It is the peace of mind enjoyed by every American, no longer one injury or illness away from catastrophe.

It is the workers and entrepreneurs who are now freed to pursue their slice of the American dream without fear of losing coverage or facing a crippling bill.

And it is the immeasurable joy of families in every part of this great nation, living happier, healthier lives together because they can finally receive the vital care they need.

This is what change looks like.

My gratitude tonight is profound. I am thankful for those in past generations whose heroic efforts brought this great goal within reach for our times. I am thankful for the members of Congress whose months of effort and brave votes made it possible to take this final step. But most of all, I am thankful for you.

This day is not the end of this journey. Much hard work remains, and we have a solemn responsibility to do it right. But we can face that work together with the confidence of those who have moved mountains.

Our journey began three years ago, driven by a shared belief that fundamental change is indeed still possible. We have worked hard together every day since to deliver on that belief.

We have shared moments of tremendous hope, and we've faced setbacks and doubt. We have all been forced to ask if our politics had simply become too polarized and too short-sighted to meet the pressing challenges of our time. This struggle became a test of whether the American people could still rally together when the cause was right -- and actually create the change we believe in.

Tonight, thanks to your mighty efforts, the answer is indisputable: Yes we can.

Thank you,

President Barack Obama"

I am also amused by the timing in regard to Astrological events; It's likely that Obama is as well :)

[Blue_Roses]

24. awesome!

it's about time!:bounce:

[SheilaT]

26. Let's see, now.

No single payer. No public option. They can charge more for older folks. And they can force us to buy insurance. And what is it, thirty million who will still be uninsured?

I'm just going to hang on for three and a half more years for Medicare.

What I really, really don't get is why insurance companies are For-Profit in the first place.

[Cleita]

28. Insurance is for disaster, things you don't plan for but that can happen to

you. It has no place in health care. I mean I had earthquake insurance up until the day we had an earthquake, an even that hadn't happened in my area for a hundred years. I didn't sustain any damage in that earthquake, so I didn't make a claim, but when my renewal came up, they excluded earthquakes. This is how insurance operates. The fact is I can rebuild from an earthquake. I can't rebuild when my health fails. This is one of the reasons why insurance has no business in access to health care.

[Flying Dream Blues]

29. It's a start, and will do some real good. It needs fixing, but

it's easier to edit something already in place than to make something new. I'm just so happy we've got our starting point!

[Tumbulu]

30. I am thrilled

I wanted single payer, but this is a start and it was very hard to start (over 75 years?) and so I am very grateful for the path we have now begun at long last as a nation.

[OneGrassRoot]

32. One specific thing I am hoping for....

an unintended (or perhaps intended if we are to think positively?) consequence, is a new focus on preventive wellness and care.

There are many things most of dislike about this bill; we've established it is far from perfect. I'm happy for a move in the right direction, trusting (but also actively working toward) this being just a start and the things we dislike will be improved upon sooner than we can imagine.

But the right-wingers are saying the healthcare system will be overwhelmed with people seeking care they couldn't seek before. The natural consequence of the realization that we have too many sick people in this country for our system to handle it, is a move toward prevention.

Dennis Kucinich, on Real Time last Friday, eluded to his belief this bill will be an opening for more alternative care funding, prevention, etc.

:grouphug:

[japple]

33. For all of its faults, this bill may provide momentum to President

Obama and (some of)the Democratic members Congress for more positive and progressive changes. With all of the obstruction they faced in Congress, in the media, all of the lies and negativity, they managed to scrape together enough votes to get this bill passed.

I work in the surgery dept. of a local hospital. Yesterday morning, I heard one of our head surgeons (a right wing) tell a couple of scrub techs that they wouldn't have jobs in 6 months. On the other hand, I was very surprised to hear an anesthesiologist (usually extremely RW) say there were good things and bad things about the bill. He had actually studied the issues and not just relied on interpretation from the GOP and Fox News.

I will remain positive about the outcome of this vote. To me, it was a win for the good guys.

[Fire Walk With Me]

34. If it hadn't passed, I shudder to think of what would have...

[Why Syzygy]

35. One more (maybe final) nail in the coffin of Alternative Health Care

http://www.naturalnews.com/028416_health_care_reform_legislation.html

Health care reform bill dooms America to Pharma-dominated sickness and suffering

(NaturalNews) Today the medical mafia struck another devastating blow to the health and freedom of all Americans. With the support of an inarguably corrupt Congress that has simply abandoned the real needs of the American people, the sick-care industry has locked in a high-profit scheme of disease and monopoly-priced pharmaceuticals in a nation that can ill afford either one.

And this Pharma-funded betrayal, it turns out, was led by the Democrats. Passed on a 219-212 vote that was only accomplished thanks to closed-door, last-minute secret meetings among the last holdouts, this new legislation puts America under the stranglehold of the medical mafia while doing absolutely nothing to address real health care reform. There is no mention in the bill, for example, of vitamin D for preventing cancer, or orthomolecular medicine for preventing degenerative disease. There's not even a word about protecting health freedom or ending the century of oppression that has been waged against naturopathic practitioners by the AMA, FDA and FTC.

The new legislation does, however, lock in billions of dollars in monopoly profits for the pharmaceutical companies -- the same companies who spent millions of dollars pushing for its passage and who depend on the continuation of sickness and disease for their future profits.

There's only one problem with this health care reform bill: It doesn't reform health care. It has almost nothing to do with health care at all, in fact: It's really more of an effort to expand a broken sick-care system. When faced with the problem that our sick-care system doesn't work, Congress somehow decided that fixing the problem merely involved expanding the failures to include everyone! (...)

[NJCher]

36. those are my thoughts

I'm disappointed. This is not just a big nothing, it's actually a step backwards--way backwards. As one of the posts on the DU front page said, the Dems might as well have gone for single-payer--they got no bipartisanship anyway.

I'm happy for the people with pre-existing conditions, though. And for the kids, too.

I'm disgusted with the actions of the right wing, such as the actions we saw today from Palin with her "reload" remark and her graphic of Dem senators marked by crossfire symbols. The sheer immaturity of these people just takes my breath away.

So now I'm disgusted with Dems and Republicans instead of just Republicans.
All this sturm und dram and for what? This? Whoop-de-do.


Cher