What disturbs me about the naysayers...

[Dora]

I've been thinking about this tonight because of the posts on homeopathy in GD from today and yesterday.

What disturbs me is not their logic or their skepticism: to each their own, after all.

First, there is their annoying insistence that they are "right" about the matter of homeopathy, as though the debate is over a math problem and there is only one possible solution.

Second, the level of barely contained vitriol reminds me of responses I see to suspected freepers. Their civility is thin, their remarks are cutting, and their intent is to embarass and demean anyone whose opinion is different from theirs.

Third, their persistence is creepy and strikes me as perverse.

[loudsue]

1. Wow! Those were exactly my sentiments about that whole thread!

I didn't even reply to any of the messages, because they were so "freeper-like", and obviously their minds were shut tighter than a trap. Not very "progressive", was it?

It seems to me that many people are digging in their heels a lot on the main boards...demanding that we "welcome" the DLC types, slamming homeopathy and herbal remedies, insisting that there's "no proof" that the election in 2004 was bogus. Way too much heavy (kool-aid) drinking going on around here lately.

It's an upside-down time in the world, and I don't think the "enlightenment" I had dreamed the world might experience is going to come as soon as I hoped.

:grouphug: But it's going to come, Dora! :grouphug:

But it's the neocons trying to use the churches, and the churches trying to use the neocons, that's going to finally bring 'em all down. They will be spewing enough of their lies holding ON to each other, that will make the nation wake up. It will show BOTH sides for the insanity they each hold onto, such that even THEY will finally have to go " :wtf: " .

I just wish it had all come apart YESTERDAY, and that we didn't have to wait another year or two...or three.

In the meantime, medical care is getting so expensive, that they'll all eventually be surprised at how much those homeopathic and herbal remedies are going to help them (or their loved ones) out of some tight spots.

They'll all be serving "crow" one Thanksgiving Day.

:kick:

[LaurenG]

2. That was exactly my point in a recent thread

I wrote down the page here.

They don't want to deal with energy or spirit or things unseen. It scares them DEEPLY. If they had to really look at the way different energies affect our bodies (and everything on earth has an energy field) they would have to believe in many things that scare them. We already know that energy is real, it's a force, like electricity that can't be explained well yet it exists. They are but babes, not ready for the truth. I am sorry that they were hateful, it just shows you what's inside of them. You are just too far ahead of them on this stuff.:hug:

(I didn't see the thread, thankfully from what you have said)

[Desertrose]

3. Trust me, they've been at this a while....

...and they also come in & read our forum and take great glee in making sport of us in their forum(s). They've even copied some entire posts from here and posted them over there to have a field day of super snark proportions, since they are not permitted to post here and *most* of us have sense not to bother to engage them.

:hi: kids

They seem to think that their lofty opinions matter somehow. They also seem to think that they are providing a service saving those who are fence sitters from becoming *true believers*, when in actuality, I think they turn more people off to science with their obvious hatred and obsession with any thing they can't prove by the materialistic god of science that they all prize higher than their own abilities.

My guess is that many were once fundy xtians or former fundie somethings and have now flipped to fundie skeptics.(which immediately puts them into thier own belief system LOL) These are the same types as on the right- fundamentalists who only allow one way of thinking- theirs. If you notice they resort to the same tactics all fundys do if someone else actually has a point- ridicule, distraction and if all else fails- attack the messenger .

I agree with Loudsue about DU now and DU then...quite a different feel and I am sorry to see so many drink whatever brand of koolaid they are drinking. But again...their choice and we all come to the point of enlightenment in our own way and time. I just have very little patience anymore with those who deliberately refuse to open their eyes...politically or spiritually.


I know its a big waste of time to engage most of them, but again, I do it for those who are all too sick of their BS and don't want to bother engaging with such energy. ( Too many lifetimes of speaking out I guess...hopefully the flames this time will only be verbal flames. LOL)


In the meantime..I am extremely grateful for this forum...which, btw, has the largest number of posts of any...except for maybe one or two of the older political forums. I have always felt teh whole point of this forum ( for me anyhow) is to try to help and uplift my brothers and sisters...make people feel more, not less.

OK...sorry for the rant...need to stop & rest my elbow ( a touch of tendinitis from overuse on the computer...doing illustrations for books and having a ball:) )


so :hug: :hug: and :loveya: You are all O8)

DR

[Eloriel]

12. DR -- check your PMs

I have some VERY interesting info for you.

[Dora]

21. That's so sad

they also come in & read our forum and take great glee in making sport of us in their forum(s). They've even copied some entire posts from here and posted them over there to have a field day of super snark proportions

Oh, that is so sad. I hope that they come to see their energies can be better used doing something else.

[Proud_Lefty]

4. This forum has the most open minds

and spiritually advanced and compassionate group of people I've ever seen. You all have an ability far beyond my capabilities, but I'm in awe of it and during an incredibly horrific threat against our country, I scan this forum for updates, anxiously seeking comfort from it. This battle is too great for us to fight alone. We will win with our biggest asset - truth and your abilities help to see more of the truth. Too bad that so many people think truth doesn't exist where they've never ventured, like does a tree falling in the woods make a sound if we're not there to hear it.

[PinkTiger]

5. I stay out of GD. The people there are not the same as here.

Many of the people who post in the lounge and in GD are young souls. Literally and figuratively speaking, LOL.
The "ask me anything" threads, for example.
So don't worry about them or what they say. What do they know???

To post here, I think you have to have a star.

[BlueIris]

6. GD really is...filled with not-so-great minds.

Some people there are really confused. I hated the homeopathy threads. Such hostility and ignorance.

[Desertrose]

7. I normally stay out of it but the Cindy stuff has got me in there again...

but yeah...lots of ignorance and hostility...never a good combination, is it?

[Trillo]

8. What's going on over there? got a link? nt

[Desertrose]

10. Live Bradblog on the radio (internet) and lots of links

All Cindy links....thanks to Generic Other :)
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4472936&mesg_id=4474449


BRAD SHOW from Crawford! Wall-to-Wall 9 Hour Team Coverage! NOW NOW NOW!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4473332&mesg_id=4473332


This is pretty amazing...as usual the MSM downplays the pro-peace turnout....thank heavens for the live bloggers tell us the truth!!

[Dora]

20. I try to avoid blaming the forum as a whole

I spend a lot of time in GD, and I learn a lot reading the threads and posts there. Sometimes I find the zealousness a little offputting, but that's just me, and I know the last thing liberals and progressives need is to be criticized for zeal. If anything, we need more zeal in the Democratic party.

When I first joined DU, I spent most of my time in the Lounge, then I moved to GD, now I visit both, and I regularly check out forums like this one that interest me.

[Cleita]

9. Even math problems don't always have one solution.

If you ever get really up there in math where they stop using numbers and use symbols only, you will see that. I stayed out of those debates because the skeptics are often as rigid as the fundies are about religion in not opening their minds to the possibility that there is merit in an idea. Back in the last century, doctors used to dismiss folk medicine as superstition. Now bio-chemists are traipsing through jungles with indigenous medicine men to learn from them about their cures.

[Delphinus]

11. I made the mistake of posting

in one of the homeopathy threads. I didn't even go back to see what the replies were.

You described my feelings very well, Dora. Glad I wasn't the only one who felt that way.

[mntleo2]

13. Thanks To Another Du-er I Can Post Here

Yes you cannot post here unless you have a star. A star was given to me because of someone who knows I am a low income single mom volunteering for my country and living on a small stipend with two teenage boys to feed. I lurk here every day to find hope and wisdom in all that is said here. My first post in here was in the vigil thread with a poem for Cindy and it came out of love for the person who was so generous and from you all. I cannot thank you all enough for being here. I am an empath with few around me who understand what that entails ~ indeed they often laugh at it like they do the homeopathy stuff.

I have struggled all my life to find a way to use this strange ability because I seem to have it mostly around strangers. I did not even know what it was until about a decade ago and I am now over 50 ~ I just thought I was crazy is all. Now I am trying to use it in indirect ways to send love to the ones with whom I feel their pain, it is all I know to do. You all give me sanity and hope, so don't let those young souls who do not have a clue, bother you. I live around a lot of these people and I always try to find as much good as I can in them and that helps me forgive them. They are just ignorant and don't know....



Cat In Seattle <---who sends special waves of love to the one who gave me the star so I can interact with you all

[Dora]

23. Somebody bought my star for me last year

It's an act of kindness that balances out the stinkers.

Welcome to DU, Cat.

[Eloriel]

25. Beautiful post

Welcome to DU AND to the Group. Glad you're here.

[NJCher]

14. the vitriol of naysayers

Welcome, mtnleo! We're so happy to have you with us at this forum and I, too, am thankful to the person who gave you the star. Hey, I'm a Leo, too. And a cat lover. :)

Cleita, that was an interesting post. I didn't know that.

Naysayers. I never get into it with them. There is something odd about them. I think it's a psychological hangup. They have so much invested in their viewpoint and they go way over the top. They seem to be extraordinarily rigid people.

I recall a story a teacher once told in class. It was when I was in middle school. The teacher told us a way to think about new ideas is to think of them as books. When we hear a new idea that we may not agree with (or even one we do agree with), we should put it on our imaginary bookshelf and just leave it there, like we would with a book.

Every now and then, something will come up and we can pull that book/idea off its shelf and look at it from a new angle. The teacher urged us to keep the book on the shelf, consulting it throughout our lifetimes. Some books, it was said, would be there for a lifetime and there would never be any conclusion about them. Nothing wrong with that.

This is what bothers me about naysayers. They don't seem to be able to "hold" an idea in the air, like what my teacher conceptualized metaphorically with the bookshelf. It's like they think a decision must be made about an idea right then and there. I buy into it or I don't buy into it.

What's wrong with holding an idea or concept in suspension and trying it on for size, playing with it?

They are unable to do that.




Cher

[Pathwalker]

15. Oh, heck - they tried to have many of us banned!

I shall forever remain grateful to Skinner for this group, so we no longer have to deal with them when discussing our interests.

I agree with the OP - 100%!

[Dora]

24. Banned?!?! n/t

:wow:

[Pathwalker]

26. Oh, yes. They were quite incensed at our presence.

One said we had no right to even be in the Democratic party. We were told we had no right to use any modern appliance, including computers, among other things. That's why this group was such a blessing.

[Dora]

27. That's so appalling I'm actually laughing. I guess...

if they weren't picking at us, they'd be picking at somebody else.

I hope they can refocus their energy.

[Terran]

16. I have to agree, especially regarding the homeopathy threads

Hi everyone--I haven't ever ventured to this group before but I feel like maybe I should. I was one of the defenders of homeopathy in those threads and was really appalled at the level of contempt I saw on display there--and then a few of them even had the nerve to deny how they were behaving. I think the earlier post herein likening that thinking to a form of fundamentalism is very right on. Haven't these people ever read Shakespeare? "there are more things in heaven and earth..."? I felt really hurt by many of the responses I saw, and I finally gave up and haven't had the heart to even check my own posts for responses, knowing the kind of responses I received.

Anyway, I hope to find myself hanging out here a bit. I'm no expert in any of the topics likely to be discussed here, but because of my partner's expertness in several different fields, I have an amateur interest in astrology and particularly in Tarot.

Dirk (Terran)

[Desertrose]

18. Really nice to see new posters here...you're ALWAYS welcome in this forum

That what I love about our littel home here...no one has to trash anyone else to make themselves feel better.

I love the diversity and great knowledge on so many different topics that people bring to share here. Pretty cool IMO.

Welcome Terran :hi:

PS.just ignorethose nasty posters...they show their ignorance with every post they make & really have nothing to add to a conversation.

[Terran]

19. Hi Desertrose

and thanks very much! :hi:

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[KittyWampus]

17. You Should Check Out The Vitriol I Encounter On Intelligent Design Threads

not only am I NOT a Religious Fundie... I'm a Religious Fundie's worst nightmare- someone who's been studying Esoteric Christianity/Judaism for a while now. I can point out the holes in their half baked notions using their own language.

[Terran]

22. Hi cryingshame

Your post has me curious: are people calling you a religious fundie because of a position you have involving the Divine and the order of the universe? I'm probably mangling terms here a bit. It seems like a lot of people here are ready to insult anyone who actually gives intelligent design, or any related concept, a shred of credence, forgetting that the issue is really about teaching it in schools, not the idea itself.

I could get into a massive discussion on intelligent design and that's probably for another thread, but I'm just curious if you (or anyone else) has caught hell for daring to suggest that there might be something to it.

[loudsue]

28. You piqued my interest, Terran. I've avoided those "intelligent design"

threads, because it seemed like a topic that would only cause me to lose more hope in ever bringing the two Americas back together again. It seems like everything the right is coming up with, only pushes me further away. The good news is, there seem to be a LOT of people who are moving further away...avoiding...fundies arguments, in the general population.

If you could start an "intelligent design" thread here in this forum, I'm sure you would find an audience who is open to the parts of it that may, actually, make sense.

I'm going to stick my neck out here and speak for the crowd in this forum:

Most of us have studied spiritual ideas from the 4 corners of the universe, and are non-conformists, as regards the strong dogma that surrounds most religions, or spiritual paths. It's the dogma... the authoritative declarations of "absolute, exclusive truth...it's ONLY this way" that turns most of us off to what the fundies (and skeptics) come up with.

:grouphug: I, too, am really happy to see so many newcomers to our group here. :loveya: The best teachers are the ones who forever remain students, as well.

:kick::kick::kick:

[japple]

29. Hi all! Another newbie cat lover who's been looking

for a positive discussion forum is making her first appearance. I, too, recently received a star as a result of a gift from a dear, dear soul. I've been lurking at DU for several years, although I haven't ventured into the GD very much. So happy to find a group of kindred spirits. Thanks for all you've given me so far.

Peace and Love,

jap in North Georgia

PS Last week I had eye surgery to re-attach the retina in my right eye. It's healing well, but I think a few positive waves in my direction would help.

[Desertrose]

30. welcome jap...nice to see so many lurkers

coming out of the closet LOL

The more the merrier:hug:

I also feel its really imprtant for us to all be more strongly connected and concentrated here too....

DR

Sending good thoughts for the healing of your eye. :)

[Terran]

31. Thanks loudsue

I'll start that "ID" thread when I know I have some time to sit down and discuss (I'm at work right now and probably should be working!).

[Pepperbelly]

32. Cryingshame and I have shared the burden of trying to ...

enlighten folk about the possibility of consciousness being the mechanism that fuels reality.

As you can guess, there are those who disagree.

But we have had each others' backs from time to time, just as you and I have had each others' back on occasion.

:D

[Desertrose]

33. my apologies for not jumping is as much

as I'd like...but I've been dealing with tendinitis or something in my right elbow/forearm ...too much computer use so I am trying to take it a bit easier.

trying anyhow.:)

:hi:nice to see you here Pepperbelly.

Kudos to you & cryingshame and everyone else trying to share enlightenment here on DU. :applause:

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Why Syzygy]

36. I actually like the skeps

they are clever in their own way. Why can't we all just get along.

I do find they spend more time dumping on 'woo woos' than actually coming up with original ideas or solutions, like this forum does. That is rather puzzling. Maybe someone can set up a controlled study to determine what that behavior is all about.

Maybe deep down they are fascinated by the soft sciences we explore. They constantly link back to this forum

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=247x2665

When I deal with people in real life like that, I suggest they get one. A life.

Let us burn sage in their name. :D

[Desertrose]

37. true...whats really funny is there was a time I used to side more

with atheists & skeptics about the way fundy religion was pushing their agenda all over the place...that is til I met some of them here. I've known and have friends and family who are skeptical - we get along no problem.

But I gotta say, some of our DU friends here go way beyond just being skeptical...they are fundamental about this refusal to even consider more than science can prove. Then they tend to get nasty when they don't get the response they hoped for....maybe thats why we don't get along. I don't take well to people telling me what to think....

Oh well, whatever.

Looks like they do seem to find our forum pretty fascinating....you'd think that they'd find something a little more pressing to do in these crazy times than spy on "poor gullible woowoos". Maybe they secretly want to open their little hearts and minds to more than what their current belief system offers....LOL

Yeah, some nice white sage... the "high octane" stuff :evilgrin:

[nuxvomica]

38. Homeopathy is very threatening to some

I've never understood why and I may never find out cuz every time the subject arises, rationality goes out the window. I'd really like to have a straightforward discussion, but that's never happened. I once posted about John Stossel's "debunking" of homeopathy and got some level-headed responses by some of the skeptics, probably cuz no one wanted to defend Stossel regardless of the subject matter. I think the more rational rationalists avoid the more inflamatory discussions and I can't say as I blame them.
My theory about the extremists is that they accepted something as an ultimate truth at some point and did it without much critical thought. That has left them burdened with doubts that they must exorcise through ridicule and scorn. Not all self-described skeptics are like that but the crowd who never met a double-blind study they didn't like behave like some sort of cargo cult, worshipping the accoutrements of science while disregarding it's fundamental principles.