Voodoo Queens of New Orleans?

[tanyev]

Interesting (long) thread in GD:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=4691039#4697176

Some skeptics, some nonsense, but still a good question and one I think the people in this forum can shed even more light on. Will Marie Laveau now become GW's worse nightmare? Are there current practitioners capable of horrible retribution?

[davsand]

1. There were a few of us from here that were in that GD thread.

I am pretty open about who and what I am, so I had no real issues with the discussion. I just expect some very real silliness when it is out there in GD, and I always take it as an opportunity to put out information that promotes better understanding and tolerance.

I do think dubya is headed for a major karmic smack down. I do think that he sealed his own fate with the patently racist handling of Katrina, and the trigger for his downfall is probably one that has been in place for a long time. What the Mambos and the Loas unleash on him, however, is gonna be a whole new experience for him, I think.

I'm glad as hell NOT to be him. (Not that this is any news flash, really. MOST DUers do not want to be dubya.)


Laura

[tanyev]

3. Is there a legend about Marie Laveau putting a curse on NO?

Some posts in the thread seemed to refer to such a thing. I did some googling and couldn't find anything that directly stated it. I don't know much about New Orleans legends other than when I became a fan of Mason Ruffner's music. He had a lot of NO references like Dr. John, and gris-gris charm, etc so I did some research then (years ago) to figure out the lyrics. Anything else you can share would be most appreciated. Thanks!

[Matariki]

4. no no no

Marie Laveau did a lot of good in New Orleans. She acted as a nurse during yellow fever and cholera epidemics. Google her obituary, she was well respected.

[tanyev]

6. Yes, I got that when I did my googling,

but I wondered if there was something I missed since there was a lot of discussions of curses on the original thread. Maybe those posters were hoping that the spirit of Marie or a contemporary practitioner would try to curse Bush in retaliation for destroying their beloved city.

[davsand]

7. Legend had it that Marie has protected NOLA all these years.

It was thought that Marie's spirit has protected the city from bad hurricanes and other disasters. I dunno where it comes from--I checked Google about it and can't find anything on it--but it has been a part of the New Orleans' pop culture/local legend for a LONG time.

Regarding the practice of Vodun, here is an article from Religious tolerance.org that does a fairly accurate job of talking about the religion:

http://www.religioustolerance.org/voodoo.htm



Laura

[tanyev]

9. Very interesting.

Thank you.

[Matariki]

11. From Marie Laveau's obituary in the Daily Picayune - June 18, 1881

<excerpt>

Besides being very beautiful Marie also was very wise. She was skillful in the practice of medicine and was acquainted with the valuable healing qualities of indigenous herbs.

She was very successful as a nurse, wonderful stories being told of her exploits at the sick bed. In yellow fever and cholera epidemics she was always called upon to nurse the sick, and always responded promptly. Her skill and knowledge earned her the friendship and approbation, of those sufficiently cultivated, but the ignorant attributed her success to unnatural means and held her in constant dread.

Notably in 1853 a committee of gentlemen, appointed at a mass meeting held at Globe Hall, waited on Marie and requested her on behalf of the people to minister to the fever stricken. She went out and fought the pestilence where it was thickest and many alive today owe their salvation to her devotion.

Not alone to the sick man was Marie Laveau a blessing. To help a fellow citizen in distress she considered a priceless privilege. She was born in the house where she died. Her mother lived and died there before her. The unassuming cottage has stood for a century and a half. It was built by the first French settlers of adobe and not a brick was employed in its construction. When it was erected it was considered the handsomest building in the neighborhood. Rampart street was not then in existence, being the skirt of a wilderness and latterly a line of entrenchment. Notwithstanding the decay of her little mansion, Marie made the sight of it pleasant to the unfortunate. At anytime of night or day any one was welcome to food and lodging.

Those in trouble had but to come to her and she would make their cause her own after undergoing great sacrifices in order to assist them.

Besides being charitable, Marie was also very pious and took delight in strengthening the allegiance of souls to the church. She would sit with the condemned in their last moments and endeavor to turn their last thoughts to Jesus. Whenever a prisoner excited her pity Marie would labor incessantly to obtain his pardon, or at least a commutation of sentence, and she generally succeeded.

[Cleita]

2. Since BushCo is on very friendly terms with the dark forces, I

don't think this is where the Mambas can go for help. However, if the Loas they enlist are the good ones and the enemies of the dark ones, it could contribute to his unraveling.

[Matariki]

5. no offence to you Cleita

but Vodou doesn't frame things in 'dark' and 'light' like that.

[Cleita]

8. No offense taken.

I do though frame it that way because their practices seem to at times invoke what I would consider dark or evil. You don't have to pay attention to or believe what I believe, and neither do they.

My point was that if, as one of the posters said that Bush should be afraid of the Voodoo priestesses because they could summon up some scary stuff, then it wouldn't work because Bush is already a member of that Country Club IMHO. And that's all it is is MHO.

Also, right now all we are dealing with is language. We know what we are speaking about.

[Matariki]

10. well, i feel like i have to defend my faith a bit ;-)

I'm a vodouisant. I study and practice vodou. The Mambo I study with is one of the most caring and decent people I know. And I have to tell you that (like most people) you have a misunderstanding about what vodou is.

A very important foundation of vodou is ancestor reverence. A lot of what people misunderstand as the scary stuff in vodou is actually this concern for and working with one's dead. This is NOT a morbid thing in vodou, but a very deep connection to one's roots. In a vodou service the last Lwa to show up are the Gede, the Baron and Manman Bridget - the Lwa of the dead. This is the FUN part of the service - the Lwa of the dead are full of humor, tell jokes, dance, kick-start the party.

I'm not saying vodou is fluffy and safe. Vodou deals with power, like any magical system. Interestingly, power seems to make some people very uncomfortable.

Would you call Kali evil? What you are saying about the Lwa amounts to the same thing. (If you think Kali is evil then vodou isn't the only religion you misunderstand.)

The impression I get is that you think there are two 'sides', and that if someone is what you consider 'evil' that anything else you consider evil must all be in the same camp. This hardly makes any sense to me. It seems too 'black and white' in the face of the complexity of life and human nature.

[Cleita]

12. You are right I don't know much about it, nor do I care to as

I am against institutionalized religion of any sort. However, I respect the right of anyone to involve themselves in any spiritual practices they want to as long as they don't hurt anyone or anything, and as long as they don't proselytize me, and as long as they stay out of my government's laws.

Now, here is the post on that GD thread that made me remark on it.

The vodon priestesses are very powerful indeed, and not limited to practicing on the side of light. I said days ago that I seriously thought it was poppet time, even though I am a witch myself, and do not practice on the dark side. my prayer is that each and every member of the administration and all of their sycophants, believers and supporters get exactly what they deserve.

So I said, in essence, that it wouldn't be good to practice on the dark side as far as Bush is concerned because he is already one of them. IMHO. Truthfully, it was just an if or what proposition, a point of conversation, nothing else.

BTW,since I was raised a Catholic, although I reject the belief, much of my thinking is framed in terms of evil and good. It's part of the brainwashing that never goes away. I have always said that culturally I am a Catholic because of how I was taught.

Although, I pretty much consider myself an agnostic, these last four years have made me believe in a place like Hell, populated by evil beings that we would call devils, who try to influence humanity to do destructive things. I'm certain everyone in BushCo. has spritually signed that pact with devil that enables them to achieve great wealth and power as long as they deliver chaos and destruction to the evil ones.

[Matariki]

14. i've always had the strong feeling

the bushco indulges in some evil magiks. just a gut feeling. rather than being evil (in the philosophical sense) i just think they're incredibly selfish, ego-centric assholes. psychotically lacking in empathy.

part of their sickness and motivation seems to be a strong belief in the christian idea of armageddon. they appear to think they're on the side of 'good'.

[Cleita]

15. According to Christianity, the devil is the Prince of Lies.

He comes to you in the guise of a lie, in this case a holy man to get you to do his bidding. The thing is most people do have a sense of right and wrong and can see through the so-called false prophets. However, greed and other vices are sometimes stronger and people will follow the false prophet for personal gain. They start believing the lies are the truth because it's getting them material gain and power.

[icymist]

13. Good for you Kineta.

Did you notice that the St. Louis cemetery stayed dry until the last in whatever news-pictures that could be caught? I'm waiting. My friends are waiting. We are all watching.