need some support with mothering-stuff

[FirstLight]

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x9612854

my teen is being a general jerk, gets everything he wants and then threatens his siblings with hatred and violence over some freaking pocket change... when his little brother is only 7 years old !!!(and still learning not to take just any change he sees laying around.)

It sucks that something so small tends to make me wish he would just go away and move out...i just don't want to deal with it anymore... but that's not good parenting either :(

anyway, if you feel you need to post something more woowoo, post here otherwise the above thread could use some input...
thanks :hug:

[Sienna86]

1. I'm there too

I cringe, but I look forward to the day my oldest moves on with his life. I added some thoughts to the original post. No answers though....

[FirstLight]

2. a contract...?

I just thought of using this whole scenario as a teaching situation... a Family Contract, outlining rules of engagement, other's rooms, etc, and then a separate page for him with some deadlines on it and some expectations.

i know i have my faults too, and i am not always the most polite or gentle of moms...i have to be the hard ass too sometimes and it is a balancing act, for sure. I have my pms rants and my post abuse crazy moments, but i have always made the effort to acknowledge it and apologize for it and grow all of us into better communicating humans...

but maybe a contract, giving each of us some guidelines about FAMILY communication, will help make these transitions easier...

:shrug: its worth a shot!

[WhiteTara]

3. contracts are always good

everyone outlines their bottom line and everyone agrees to honor. That's good parenting! See!

[Sienna86]

4. Make sure contract..

or any agreement is something you are willing and able to uphold.

[NuttyFluffers]

5. he needs some gratitude and confidence building.

he seems to be exhibiting issues from being the eldest and having to witness the most of the transitions. i even wonder if any of the abuse from the father has already scripted as a positive in him (were you both more materially prosperous while living under abusive husband's rule?). nothing impossible to undo, however. but the realities of pain must be revealed before they can be healed.

i will say one thing: as much as WoW is an emotional outlet, it can also be an emotional crutch, if the person is suffering some damage. taking it away doesn't really help as much. yet, making them responsible for payments of their own entertainment is a good start. does he pay for his WoW acct? does he help pay for his part of the internet (cable/DSL) bill? it may be a better way than rent money to keep him responsible and motivated.

rent money can deplete funds crazy fast (but everyone should be helping in your family because times are tough). rent (while w/o a job and hard up on cash) can make the child feel "pushed out" -- and with desperate economic times, emotionally overwhelmed. many people, particularly men, run to escapism when emotionally overwhelmed.

however, that does not excuse abusive behavior to his younger siblings. that, you have to draw a line in the sand. also, pointing out how much the younger siblings may look up to their older brother should check his abusive ways. knowing that you are a role model for behavior does change most people from selfish behavior towards at least an attempt of looking admirable and virtuous.

it sounds like he needs counseling. but at that age, it's so hard to admit you even have a problem. just lay down the law that you will not support destructive behavior to himself or the rest of his family, but otherwise will always be there for him. after that, he needs to find his own "confessor" to which he can talk through his rage and grief.

[FirstLight]

6. nailed it

I agree with all of the above, and I especially try to remind him that the relationships he has with his siblings are valuable for LIFE...

no we were not better off with the bad ex husband...in fact i think he hates him so much it spills over to the siblings as extensions of him.

as far as rent goes, I lost $130 in cash aid as well as food stamps and also saw my rent go up with HUD when he turned 18...he has money in his bank acct from his summer job and pellgrants, so he is not strapped at this point. I only ask for half that, $60, and only if we are at the end of the month and strapped.

so I hold the fort and keep the peace and most of the time we get by ...but the times we don't do so well feels like hell...

[NuttyFluffers]

11. hmm, hatred is like taking poison and expecting your enemy to suffer...

maybe that message might make him reconsider his uncontrolled anger towards his father.

as Randi Rhodes says, success is the best revenge. nothing eats up your enemy more than envy. besides, the more he is focused on living a good and happy life, the less time he has to dwell on his past sorrows.

i see where you come from with the rent. it is good. $60 is quite doable (in comparison to $130). though i think you need to have the "talk" about him finding a new job. it's really crazy hard out there, and maybe he does not know that you do understand how crazy hard it is out there. but that requires the supportive and honest talk.

also, i think he's mourning childhood where he did not feel all these responsibilities flying at him. maybe if you shared your feelings of vulnerability when you were his age, it might open the conversation. sharing your past fears let's him know that this isn't a new story for you; you can truly empathize, and will try to be there as best you can. but there is something tragic about saying goodbye to childhood's simplicity -- maybe he needs a little down time in the week to mourn. but one cannot mourn forever... ;)

have you tried family board game or tv night, just to get everyone in the same room together talking? sometimes little rituals, like meals together, or idle time in the same room, helps rebuild familiarity.

OR, is it an issue that the family shares so much space together that any break from each other is a godsend?

Absence makes the heart grow fonder, and familiarity breeds contempt. sometimes people need distance, especially introverts. but too much distance and people forget how to negotiate their relationship. it's such a delicate balance, and different for each individual.

[LaurenG]

7. Teenagers can be heartbreaking. I have long contended that my

8 year olds (when they were 8) needed less supervision than they did as teenagers.

They do grow up and out of this stage. The peer pressure and self loathing that is sometimes a part of this age group is fairly common. He sounds like he feels vulnerable to people pushing his boundaries and needs some help with setting limits both for himself and setting them with others. Helping kids to understand that they are able to self manage positive things can also be brought into play to self manage negative emotions. He needs space and positive reinforcment. Try to catch him doing good things and let him know you appreciate those things. I found that when I talked to my teenagers as adults we could have a fairly decent conversation about values I felt were important. I hope things get better soon, I do feel for you.

Rearing kids is the most important job we will ever have, and I hope you are taking really good care of yourself as well, I know how hard this can be. :hug:

[kimmerspixelated]

8. Good point about the 8yr old comparison.

Have had recent experience with that and was caught off guard by the regression... it would seem. Things have settled down a little bit....I am hoping for the calmatives for all parties.

[FirstLight]

9. we have our good moments too

I liken the whole 'leaving the nest' thing to a kind of breakup... you still love eachother, but can;t be together anymore..

He come home tonight, got mad, talked to my mom, got her crying with worry, packed his stuff and walked out into 8 degree weather to walk to his girlfriend's house...
my mom told me he can;t even stand the sound of his brother's and sister's voices, he just can;t be in the house.

so i said maybe he *does* need to go

my mom is freaking out because she thinks i am pushing him out of the house and into the street or the gutter
but i told her maybe he can stay with them and go to the college in their town, only a few minutes over the mountain...
my parents helped raise trev when he was a baby, because i was so young when i had hom and had to try and go to college. He said the only thing he is thankful for is them... that hurts, i always went out of my way to make sure he was taken care of, that he had his own room as a sanctuary, etc...
we used to be best buddies,
and now both he (and my mom) think i have issues with him because i hate ALL men...I just refuse to do 'agressive male' and fiercely protect anyone who threatens the little ones...but he insists i always make him the bad guy and there is no way to convince him otherise

:cry: whatever

[NuttyFluffers]

12. ooh, that sounds like mourning childhood and envy of younger siblings

yeah, he's mourning the changing relationships of his new status... that's a hard time, and even harder to get through.

i'd send a greeting card to him at his girlfriend's address. say that you love him and realize things are changing between you two now that he is older. i'd say something like, "i will always be your mom. and i will always be your siblings' mom, too. the way we speak to each other must change as we get older, but know that my love for you, my child, can never change. you need space to grow, so i will stand back loving you. but never be afraid to return, for my love will always be open to receive you. best of luck, my son, i am forever on your side. -Love, Mom."

or something to that effect.

keep the channels of communication open. sometimes distance is the only way to dispel the contempt that grows with familiarity and frustration. but the threads of connection should not be feel cut -- just stretched.
:hug:

[SheilaT]

10. This is a VERY difficult age, but

that doesn't mean he's allowed to get away with crap.

When my younger son was 17 (the summer before his senior year in high school)he was picked up on possession of marijuana, basically cheated his way through the Diversion (what they did in our state with first time under age offenders). A few months later he got a three day suspension from his h.s. for being stupid enough to show up at a school event drunk. Things deteriorated at home. In March I caught him with a brick of marijuana (I didn't even know such things existed!), which he was clearly planning to sell, and he moved out for about six weeks. We weren't even entirely sure where he was, although we correctly guessed which friend he was staying with. He did continue attending school, and even though his grades suffered he graduated at the end of May, much to my relief. In August he went off to college. A month later, in September, at the Parent Visit Day, he was transformed. He graduated -- with honors -- in four years. During the summers he came home and did Pizza delivery. After college graduation he returned home and resumed doing pizza delivery.

Pizza delivery is not such a bad thing. He actually supported himself with it, and has recently moved to Portland, Oregon, where he intends to resume doing pizza delivery. Some day he will decide to get a "real" job.

The thing is, there ARE entry level fast food or night stocking jobs that are more than suitable for a young man. Make your son get one. He needs to go out every single day and apply at some minimum number of places -- at least three strikes me as a good start -- until someone hires him. And then he must pay room and board. (A couple of summers ago, when it was supposedly the worst summer since the end of WWII for jobs for teens, I made my older son go out every single day like that, and inside of three days he got hired by the local MacDonald's. It works.)

In many other cultures or eras, your son would be on his own and self-supporting. The truth is that an 18 year old is an adult. Not as adult as he'll be at 25, but an adult nonetheless. Make him take responsibility. Set rigid limits on how he treats his siblings, and enforce them. If he is threatening violence, that is utterly not tolerable. If necessary, he leaves. I know it sounds harsh, but coddling him or excusing him will do him no favors at all.

Hang in there. I honestly thought I'd lost my son when he moved out, and I still can't get over that it didn't turn out terrible. I'm not sure what we did right, except that we were always completely clear on what was and was not acceptable behavior.