Jesus, Divinity, Worship and Imaginary friends.

[eilen]

Since the time I was a child, learning about religion, I never had any doubts that there was a god, a creator, something greater than myself. That concept in my entire life never was challenged by science (which is merely a tool or set of rules to bring about what is desired) nor by other gods (blind man and the elephant syndrome) except for one thing-- the Jesus myth. In the bible stories I was read and that I read later, Jesus just never seemed to me to be an entity that needed or wanted worship. I always felt that this guy's mission was to tell us we were all part of the divine (god) and that we were to walk with him-- as he is our brother; that as he is the son of god as we are all sons and daughters of god and all those silly rules that have been made up by religion--- well they only served to separate us further from our knowlege, our divinity and to reject what is designed to control our minds (control our divinity/our lives).

Anyway, I never thought of him as a god or as something to worship or appeal to in prayer but more so to listen and to understand that all that he could do is what we can do. The miracles--or his acts-- feeding hungry, curing sick , clothing naked, bringing people back to life (ie. awakening) are what we can do and as we understand what he is teaching, we understand we were all made to walk on water so to speak.

Now I also understood he is one teacher among many.

As I said before, I never felt the need for his deification and always felt weird having to pray to him. I could never understand the need to make him
"my best friend".

any thoughts

[OneGrassRoot]

1. That is exactly how I feel....

Exactly.

Like you, I always have felt this way.

:hug:

[WolverineDG]

2. Well, I self-identify as Christian

I don't "worship" Jesus, I follow Him. I don't go to church as I have yet to find one that feels "right." Same with the New Testament. There are passages that sound "right" & others that don't. A lot of what is ascribed to Paul really "sounds" wrong. It all has to do with an experience I had as a small child...I was very ill, I think I even died for a moment, saw Jesus, talked to Him. Ever since, I've been this way.

As for the Resurrection, what comes to me is that it gave people hope that there was an afterlife, & everyone could attain it. You didn't have to pay a priest for an expensive ceremony, or make sacrifices or die as a hero on the battlefield. You just had to believe. What a revolutionary concept for that time & place. Love everyone, share all your stuff, go to Heaven. No $ required.

Of course, the "Church" has strayed widely off the mark from Jesus' teachings. I read about that stuff & it makes me angry & sad at the same time---such wonderful teachings completely corrupted, especially the refusal to recognize that there are many paths or "ways" to Heaven (afterlife/reincarnation).

This is my way. I've known it since I was little, although I've tried other ways, nothing seemed right for me. Others have other paths to follow. :)

dg

[Howler]

5. Well said WolverineDG!!!!

Exactly so!!! Hey....Thats why you make the big bucks as a writer. You word smith you. :)

[WolverineDG]

6. big bucks = $10 ???

:spray: :rofl:

my biggest fan! thanks for the support. :D RHONJ is on tonight & I will definitely be re-capping it. But I'm a long way from living off what I write. :(

dg

[Howler]

7. Then its a travesty!!!

If I had any money I would invest in your up and coming writing career.


OHHHHHHHHH! Those Italian New Jersey Housewives are lookin pretty juicey in a mean girl/drama queen kinda of way. LOL!
Who knew the men were just as bad!!!! I love it!!! Diva's all.

[Ricochet21]

3. +100%

[Sienna86]

4. That's exactly how I feel also

You put it perfectly. I grew up Catholic and it's quite a departure.

[eilen]

11. I discovered that the Catholic tradition

actually has a social justice aspect that is very congruent with the teachings of Jesus. It is telling that the most active representation of it -- The Catholic Worker Houses and Farms are not affiliated with the official Church. Its aim is to "live in accordance with the justice and charity of Jesus Christ." One of its guiding principles is hospitality towards those on the margin of society, based on the principles of communitarianism and personalism.

They were very influenced by Pope Leo XIII who wrote the 1891 encyclical Rerum Novarum which addressed for the first time social inequality and social justice issues with Papal authority, focusing on the rights and duties of capital and labour, it argued that both capitalism and communism are flawed. Rerum Novarum introduced the idea of subsidiarity into Catholic social thought. More recently (at least relative to Catholicism) Pope John Paul II wrote Centesimus Annus, commemorated the 100th anniversary of Rerum Novarum.

When carried out in practice becomes religious anarchism. However, I believe that it is possible and likely preferable to live in the model of this in a non-sectarian manner.

Which may be the framework or the model of what One Grass Root has been noodling about lately.

[get the red out]

8. Yes, I agree

It's been along time coming for me because in my heart I felt this all along but fear was implanted in me so deep that I had to detour through a bit of Atheism to get back to some of this thinking.

I can't/won't read the Bible, the thought scares me. I read around it and come to enlightening conclusions. I have read a lot about the history of who wrote the Bible and how it was put together and what the motives of those people were. That reading took away so much fear that I could listen more to what I really believed and felt rather than the terror tapes playing in my head.

[Flying Dream Blues]

9. Yes!

So beautifully expressed in this thread. I always "got" Jesus, but the Christianity part seemed to lack a certain continuity if you will. :)

I'll never forget getting in trouble in Sunday School, aged 5 or 6..

Me: "So in the song, it says 'Red and yellow, black or white, we are precious in His sight', right?"

Teacher: "Right"

Me: "So...didn't you also say we needed to pray for the children in deepest darkest Africa who may not be saved because they don't know Jesus?"

Teacher: "Well..."

Me: "So if He loves us, He will still let some of us go to Hell just for being unlucky?"

Teacher: "Well, I never!" (And told my mom I was being 'disrespectful')

Actually, I was hoping she would tell me I had misunderstood. Since she did not, I really didn't have much use for it all after that. But I also never blamed Jesus since I was pretty sure it wasn't He who was messed up.


Edited for proper punctuation.

[eilen]

10. When I was in second grade

I had to attend "religious instruction" which meant that us Catholic kids were put on a bus and dropped off at our parish church where we would get communion classes. I figured out that this was during recess and all the other kids were playing Barbies and with the Big Blocks while we were gone. It's not that I didn't like the nuns and the lay teachers at church, I just had better ways to pass my time. So I stopped going. I stayed at school. After all, I had a children's bible that I already read.

My parents had no idea until about a month before Easter and the church told them I had been skipping religion so could not make communion. Well, my mom was shocked I did this. I never mentioned it to her. Now, I was not keeping a secret or anything it is just that I was a daydreaming kid and after school, I promptly forgot everything that had to do with it. It just ceased to matter to me once I got home. I don't know what kind of money had to pass between my Dad and the priest but I did end up making my first communion.

It was very confusing to me what to confess to the priest. I just thought that since I never made any sins, I had to make something up to make him happy. I was a pretty honest kid but I was pretty forgetful and since I daydreamed and pretended a lot, sometimes had trouble remembering what was real and what wasn't.

[I Have A Dream]

13. "But I also never blamed Jesus since I was pretty sure it wasn't He who was messed up."

:thumbsup:

[Fire Walk With Me]

12. Christ showed clearly that we are masters of our own destiny, that the material

is illusion and controllable if you have sufficient faith. That death is not true death, that freedom from the cycle of birth and death is possible (immortality in the mental plane). That freedom from negative patterns and karma is possible.

You are correct, he didn't seek worshippers. He appeared to teach empowerment and responsibility and awareness of our true nature and capability, among other things.

[I Have A Dream]

14. I absolutely agree.

I do not believe that Jesus is divine. That's one of the basic tenets of today's Christianity.

I remember my high school World Cultures teacher rationally discussing this with my class. It was the first time that I'd ever encountered someone who encouraged me to think about this for myself and who made it clear that I had the right to make my own decision about this. This was a paradigm shift for me. Today, a teacher would be hung out to dry if he/she were to broach that subject. How sad for our society that this is the case.

Even before I made the decision that I did not believe in Jesus' divinity (or ever even thought about it), I didn't feel comfortable praying to him or asking for him to intercede on my behalf. It made me feel very uncomfortable inside when I thought about it -- almost as though my teeth itched. I always felt as though I should be speaking directly to "God", although I was always uncomfortable with the concept of the "God" that Christianity describes.

That being said, I greatly respect the being who is Jesus, who I believe is an ascended being who came here to help humanity. His appearance on Earth changed the God of vengeance to a God of love. I always laugh when I think that these two Gods are supposed to be the same God. I don't think that either of these "Gods" are how the Universe actually works, but this metamorphosis in "God" was a shift in consciousness for humanity.

Someone else mentioned the issue of Paul versus Jesus. I greatly respect the being who is Jesus. His words encourage us to have love rule our lives. Paul's teachings (at least as they are currently presented) encourage separation and having fear rule our lives. Most of today's Christianity is based upon Paul's teachings. Jesus is nothing more than a figurehead; his position in Christianity has been usurped by Paul.

If it were not for the divinity and salvation issues, I'd consider myself to be a Christian.

[Proud_Lefty]

15. I couldn't put it better myself

I also find it so interesting how so many young people these days aren't buying it. Despite all the efforts I saw by my kids' school establishment to keep all the kids from thinking for themselves and speaking up against authority, I see that it just isn't working anymore (for the most part). It's so encouraging to see so many awakened souls.

Paul was a real crook, and wrote against all the teachings of Jesus. Don't know how his writings in the New Testament got much more space than that about the life of Jesus. In fact, all four books written about limited portions of Jesus' life are redundant - same stories written four times. What's up with that? Where's any information about his training and the teachings he received in his late teens and early to mid-twenties? Instead, we get to hear an ex convict's version of how to obey your spouse, never divorce, no matter how screwed up your marriage is, and remember to hate the gays. People are shocked when I offer my opinion on Paul because I don't have any kind words.

I used to call myself a Christian, even recently, because the definition in the dictionary is something like, "One who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ." Then too many Christians told me I had to put down all other religions as invalid and maybe even evil, to qualify as a Christian. Guess I'm not a Christian anymore and I don't miss it.

[I Have A Dream]

16. You and I think alike in a lot of ways, my friend.

:fistbump: