Hi, Everyone. I posted something about empathy in GD....

[OneGrassRoot]

Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=439x1471079

But what I really want to draw your attention to is a video I posted this morning which deals with empathy interviews at a Tea Party rally.

http://vimeo.com/11125610

I posted that I realized I didn't sense much authentic empathy being discussed.

What I also just realized is that I'm not sure I saw any true compassion, which is a desire to alleviate the suffering of others. What I often sense from conservatives I know isn't so much compassion, but an impatience that people are having a rough time and need help. Many people often get involved in "charity" -- progressives, conservatives, label matters not -- not out of a true sense of compassion, but out of a feeling of guilt, as though they SHOULD help in some way and because seeing the suffering of others makes them very uncomfortable. Many prefer an out of sight, out of mind approach, rather than an authentic desire to connect to another soul and alleviate their suffering. And I think that is because they're afraid to feel....

Anyway, I often wonder how to find common ground with right-wingers, and this video helps me see the core differences a bit more.

:grouphug:

[WolverineDG]

1. well you deserve a medal for posting that in GD

:patriot: (although I prefer the 3rd Rock salute myself :rofl: )

:grouphug:

I think the reason most people prefer the "out of sight, out of mind" approach is that when confronted with someone in need, they get the uncomfortable "there but for the grace of God" feeling, issues they haven't confronted or resolved.

dg

[OneGrassRoot]

3. Honestly, I never thought it would be dissed....

I wasn't expecting that at all (but probably should have! :rofl:).

GD is generally gracious with me; it's usually a lack of comments rather than negative comments.

Unfortunately, I haven't gotten many responses to the specific request to share suggestions regarding acts of compassion, but that's okay. If the post itself was a positive impact in some way, that's awesome.

I agree about the discomfort most people feel, and so many are that way because they absolutely, positively can't bear to think "there but for the Grace of God."

It's terrifying for them, so they have to block it out. Thank you for bringing that up.

:hug:

[kentauros]

6. On topics like this, GD seems to have mellowed a bit.

On the other hand, had you posted the exact same thread to Religion/Theology, the "lions" would have torn it to shreds. Same thing happened to Peacetrain with her thread on liberal Christians originally in GD and then moved to R/T. The atmosphere in GD was welcoming and sympathetic. That changed to one of animosity and disdain the moment it got moved to R/T.

Also, I think that some on DU "suffer" from a lack of the kind of compassion you're evoking. My observations from all those "food stamp outrage" threads is that some DUers are married to the bureaucracy of institutionalized compassion (government assistance programs) and cannot think in terms beyond that. Assistance can only come with stipulations that the "gift" be used in ways in which they approve, or there will be hell to pay! They haven't yet learned the concept of unconditional compassion and empathy.

I don't think many humans will ever attain a 100% unconditional quality of love, compassion and/or empathy, but it is another thing towards which we can strive. I would just like to see more of our fellow members here striving in similar ways.

[WolverineDG]

7. Oh yeah, don't dare bring up a rational discussion about religion in R/T

unless you don't believe in God, then you get a free pass.

:yoiks:

dg

[OneGrassRoot]

8. I'm not sure I've ever gone there...

So the R/T forum is primarily frequented by atheists?

:shrug:

[kentauros]

9. It seems that way.

They are often the most vocal and argumentative. Buddhism gets a pass, though, so there's that :)

[WolverineDG]

13. Yes, they've bullied everyone else out

which is weird because they have their own forum to post their stuff, yet they insist on making believers feel unwelcome in R&T.

dg

[Kookaburra]

2. And you didn't get eaten alive

Good for you OGR! Oh, and a lovely post. Thank you for being so fearless in the face of GD. I can't stand going over there very much.

[OneGrassRoot]

4. No...lol

I as I replied above, I really didn't expect to be given a hard time. My hurdles are usually in the realm of no response, not necessarily negative responses. I guess I'm getting naive in my old age. ;)

:hug:

[OneGrassRoot]

5. Can you think of an organization that may be a good partner....

for a TAKE BACK THE WORDS Campaign?

I'm realizing I need organizational help for some things but don't have time right now to research organizations and foundations that may be a good fit for a campaign to take back the words: compassion, empathy, cooperation, community.

I feel rather strongly that a campaign to TAKE BACK THE WORDS is the first order of business. Make it okay once again to use those words, and then ACT on them. It's easier for people to "get" Wishadoo and the myriad other wonderful projects and efforts with an open heart and open mind, without artificial hurdles in the way of understanding and connecting.

Can you think of organizations or foundations that may be a good fit for such a campaign and with Wishadoo?

Thanks. :)

:grouphug:

[Kind of Blue]

10. I'm so sorry to have missed KnR-ing

the OP, OGR. But once again, you've opened an avenue for discussion in a good way during very trying times. Thanks! :hug: :hug: :hug:

[OneGrassRoot]

12. ...

:hug:

:hi:

[mntleo2]

11. On Compassion and Safety Net Stuff ...

As a long time activist for low income people and low income myself, my take on " acts of compassion" does not come out of guilt so much as money. "If I give money, I will get a tax deduction," is the epitome of this kind of "compassion".

Recently I was in court supporting a homeless single mother who had recently graduated from law school (and recently passed the bar). Besides the fact she is an incredible woman to have achieved such a thing ~ most people cannot pass law school and the bar WITH a home much less be homeless, a single mom and without a home with kids.

She tried to sue the State as a pro se because in spite of her success, while trying to obtain a required internship the State refused to grant her welfare while she interned. They claimed they would allowed her to work in "non-profit" law offices, but there was such a backup by others needing internship in those offices, the only place she found to intern was a "for-profit" office.

One might note here that welfare moms are sent all the time to "for profit" businesses and not even paid. They are being forced to "volunteer" to work off their welfare grants in what is called "Workfare", which if it were a salary, would come to less than $3.00 per hour.

When this woman showed up the first day to defend her case all by herself, three state lawyers all decked out with their briefcases, impeccable suits and $300 shoes strode in. The next three days this mom tried to show how the laws and policies of Welfare are designed to keep women in poverty instead of supporting them to make a livable wage.

I watched the judge sitting high up on the bench and she appeared mostly bored at the proceedings. Until one subject came up that made her sit straight up and pay close attention: child support, which TANF confiscates for years after a person is off welfare, and any costs by the state. I also saw her sit up when the three lawyers pointed out how much money it "saved" by not allowing this woman to intern. The very subject of money made this judge suddenly become alert and pay attention.

The immorality and illegality of creating and enforcing policies and laws forcing moms to work for nothing and to work jobs that will keep them in perpetual poverty? ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.

And don't get me started on large non-profits who do little for the poor, but are nice tax deductions for their rich contributors, great 6 figure jobs for rich people's relatives, who get millions of dollars in federal and state grants for doing little if anything for the people they are supposed to serve.

A caveat here, SMALL nons are not the problem, they work their asses off and do good work. Mega-nons ARE a problem as the Poverty Industry is a money maker for their rich supporters. These are the most insidious and horrible abusers of low income people, who are in essence large industries living off the backs of the poor pretending to do good without doing anything to eradicate poverty, homelessness and hunger because if they did, then there would not be those perks left for them.

But the ones who donate and give tax deductible money or who reside on boards that give their relatives an "in* to 6 figure jobs? These "compassionate people" could care less about suffering (as long as it is not themselves), they care more about the tax deduction they will get or the junk they will get rid of because it is taking up precious space in their homes, or the illusion of "compassion" they will appear to have as board members.

When it comes to money, like this judge, who I am pretty sure was a nice liberal well educated woman, the things REALLY heard is always attached to a $$$$$$ sign and how will it benefit ME, to hell with anyone suffering, is *not* about compassion, it is about money.

I apologize for being so cynical, but I had to chime in because this is just what I have seen and heard after over 25 years as an activist. While conservatives are worse, liberals are not far behind.

Just my 2 cents

Cat in Seattle

[OneGrassRoot]

14. I'm so with you, Cat.....

And don't get me started on large non-profits who do little for the poor, but are nice tax deductions for their rich contributors, great 6 figure jobs for rich people's relatives, who get millions of dollars in federal and state grants for doing little if anything for the people they are supposed to serve.

A caveat here, SMALL nons are not the problem, they work their asses off and do good work. Mega-nons ARE a problem as the Poverty Industry is a money maker for their rich supporters. These are the most insidious and horrible abusers of low income people, who are in essence large industries living off the backs of the poor pretending to do good without doing anything to eradicate poverty, homelessness and hunger because if they did, then there would not be those perks left for them.

People have gotten upset with me when I say I don't really want Wishadoo to be a nonprofit, because I don't want people to help others simply to get a tax write-off. I'm honestly not comfortable within the nonprofit world (and I can't believe how many foundations are devoted to "studying" this and that but so few actually DO anything of practical value, imho), but I'm trying to keep an open mind. As you said, the smaller, local nonprofits are where the real work -- the effective work -- takes place.

Thanks for sharing that story. You always enlighten me about something when you share. I appreciate it. :)

:hug:

[mntleo2]

15. Yeah non-profit status is ...hard to take but necessary for some

... it is often the only way to get funding because it makes contributions tax deductible.

The one thing I often see in grants is trying to "prove" you will continue growing. There are often sections where somehow this is a good thing. whether these grants come from foundations where the tax deduction has already happened or federal and state grants, being a 501c3 is a given before they will even consider you.

Tax write offs for middle and low income families are a good thing ~ but most often that takes a "long form" tax statement. Most of us file "short forms", which do not mention such tax deductions. Therefore charitable tax deductions are only for upper middle and wealthy incomes, *not* for the "rest of us".

My little organization is applying for a 501c3 because we need funding but ....I worry about being forced to grow into one of those mega-nons who evolve into a money-making machine in order to keep themselves afloat while leaving their main mission behind.

Next month I am going to stay at an heiress to a multi-billion corporation. She has been supportive of the work we do for a long time, but because of a re-organization we have to begin all over again to become a "non-profit". She's given us some of her chump change, but warns she cannot do it anymore unless we become 5013c. Of course the high powered lawyers and professionals she has at her fingertips on her staff cannot help us with that, but the expense of doing it is hard for us when we have little. It just does not occur to her that what she needs us to do so she can keep what would be a $10.00 bill to you or me, is a terrible hardship for us and one of the problems we have in order to keep doing the work. The biggest conundrum is that it would be rude to her if we were to try to teach her about the difficulties for which she is asking.

Yet the work we do nobody else is doing and affects thousands in our state, millions nationally because of our coalition with others around the country concerned about low income families. Does this matter to this good hearted woman enough to help without getting something back? No. I like her, she is an intelligent, sweet woman. I am grateful that out of the upper 1% she at least TRIES to get it, but it is also sad to me in so many ways. It really shows the classism and almost impossibility to get across to "full bellied" people what empty bellies really need when it comes to compassion.

They *never* ask themselves the question, "What would I suffer if I gave something I don't even need?" They do not ever truly LOOK at what they do "need" and what they don't "need". Here is what all humans need: food, housing, clothing, and medical care. After that is luxury. This is the thing missing IMO in "compassion" that few seem to ask.

Yet most poor will give you the shirt off their backs even though it WILL cost them, because they know that doing without one hurts and they do not want to see the suffering they have had. This is because they KNOW the difference between what they "need" and what they "want" ~ and THAT is the road to real compassion.

Maybe this will be a way to get you started on how to talk to these people. In my line of work I have learned to stay silent sometimes ~ but I keep hoping that like with this good woman billionaire, maybe some day I CAN say something. But after 25 years, I am still looking for the opportunity ...

Love
Cat

[OneGrassRoot]

16. Great points....

I'm PM'ing you with a question.

And best wishes regarding your nonprofit!!!

:)

:hug: