A different perspective on the Gov. Perry "Prayerpalooza" event.

[kentauros]

I just finished reading the follow-up story by the Houston Press' reporter (Craig Hlavaty) sent to the event. In the original story, he's half critical, half positive about it, and most of the 50+ comments missed the positive parts. In his follow-up piece, he admits to being a believer and manages to find even more positive aspects to the event. So, despite how it was promoted and subsequently denigrated here and elsewhere, there were still positive things about it. The Houston Press sent the right person to cover it and he knows how to report.

Here's the follow-up story for y'all to make up your own minds. I was mostly impressed with Craig's ability to find the good stuff in an event that most either ignored or had only jeers directed at it. I figure, too, that this forum is better suited to seeing the whole picture without (much) negative reaction, unlike if I had posted to the Texas forum or GD ;)


The Response Criterion Collection: More Pictures From Saturday's Prayerapalooza

42! :D

[OneGrassRoot]

1. I thoroughly enjoyed reading that!

Thanks, kentauros. :hug:

Not only is he witty -- actually, he's flat-out funny -- and very engaging, he does bring up some good points.

Especially this part:

"It's funny, an anthropologist can observe an indigenous people praying to their god in very much the same way, and it's science and humanity, because the poor bastards don't own computers or watch TV. You come watch these people and it's supposed to be a freak show."

So many of us here in the States have been exposed to the overtly judgmental (and hypocritical) aspects of some fundamental Christian sects, probably much more than other fundamental religions, that we tend to have a knee-jerk reaction. That's not necessarily fair, and we probably do what we say we dislike -- judge and misjudge -- in the process.

If any of those history shows were to delve into how a devoutly religious indigenous society, in recent history, caused great harm to those not of the same belief system BECAUSE they believe differently, we'd probably have similar feelings toward them.

Many think back on the hippie movement and, even if they thought they were crazy, saw them as harmless and could have a "to each their own" opinion about those who claimed the hippie label. But most of us can't help but equate gatherings such as the one written about here with the abortion protests, etc.

Perhaps many of those who attended were progressive Christians, even if Perry was involved? I don't know...I haven't read enough or heard enough about the event to really know what was what. One of the videos promoting the event was quite awesome (it was shown on the Bill Maher Show). It wasn't "bible-y" at all to me.

We so easily succumb to the "us versus them" mentality, especially in challenging times.

Anyway, thanks again for sharing.

:hi:

[get the red out]

2. What I worry about is:

Every time Christians are given the benefit of the doubt in our society anymore a very powerful segment of them reaches past our outstretched hands to grab us by the throat and try to strangle the freedom out of us and throw us all into the way-back machine.

Once you've touched that hot stove and been burned, when is it safe to put your hand on it again? I just have to see the word "Christian" and I'm looking for the ulterior motives, they've trained us well. I don't want our country to be "us vs them" anymore, but I don't want to put down my shield and have a sword slammed into my gut either.

This is difficult, and I apologize for not even being able to bring myself to read what was referenced.

[OneGrassRoot]

3. Oh, I hear you, GTRO....

Although, I have to say, that in the last couple of months -- especially at Facebook -- I have discovered there is quite a large progressive Christian community out there, who share the same worldview we do about social issues, fiscal issues, etc.

That's helped me with my "knee-jerk" reaction. ;)

As for the article, it's really very, very funny. I don't think it would upset you in any way. He's coming at it largely from our perspective as opposed to a thumper perspective.

:hug:

[Cleita]

5. The problem is that cynical people who want to gain

money and power use the spiritual beliefs of people to gain that money and power by bending their beliefs to suit their purposes. It's as old as the ancient world when kings claimed they were gods so that people would follow them. Most of those evangelical churches that are gaining so much power today were a hundred years ago mostly traveling carnival shows called revivals that relieved poor rural people of their money with grandiose sermons and faux faith healings and other "miracles".

[OneGrassRoot]

8. That's one of the aspects of any "organized" religion or spirituality...

that I dislike (loathe, actually), and that description applies to many so-called leaders in the New Age community as well.

Any spiritual gathering has the potential to be an abuse of trust or manipulation in some way, that's for certain.

The difference between most metaphysical gatherings versus fundamentalist Christian gatherings, as just two examples to contrast, is that the former is usually tolerant of others' beliefs, so long as no one tries to force it upon them, whereas the latter isn't.

Otherwise, the manipulation factor is present in all organized spiritual/religious gatherings, imho.

:hi:

[get the red out]

11. I agree with that

I have seen it in a group that was not Christian and wasn't even supposed to be an organized spiritual group of any kind. Two therapists who used their new agey bliefs to suck in people who they were supposed to be helping with serious life problems. The ironic thing is that when I look at a lot of their "beliefs", I agree with them, but the way they used them wasn't spiritual at all, it was a hook to control vulnerable people.

[OneGrassRoot]

12. What a great point...

and well said, btw.

The intention of how the beliefs are to be put into practice -- or not -- is HUGE. You're so right; that's really the dividing line about many things.

We can share similar basic beliefs but how they are put into action can vary widely and be in conflict.

I observe that frequently within the spiritual communities similar to ASAH with regard to acting externally in some way to put the beliefs into action versus focusing primarily (or solely) on self.

Excellent food for thought. :)

[kentauros]

7. You're welcome, OGR!

While Houston is politically "purple" and most of the evangelical Christians here are most definitely conservative, I don't know enough about the rest of Houston's Christian population to know if the event had many progressive Christians there or not. My guess is if they were there, they weren't making themselves known to the crowds.

Also, the reporter works for our one, true, Liberal paper, or at least liberal enough that all of the conservatives hate it ;) They still do investigative journalism, with the rest of the Houston media often following them weeks or even months later with similar but dumbed-down stories.

I was surprised that Craig said he believed in God, as reporters aren't supposed to do that (that I know of.) Still, it is an opinion piece and it was nice to see someone look at things from a personal spiritual perspective, too. He did a fine job indeed! :D

Oh, and I loved that image of the woman blowing the steer horn! It's too bad they couldn't find her later. Maybe someone will get her in touch with HP.

[Why Syzygy]

4. The Revival Experience...

CONVERSION is a "nice" word for BRAINWASHING . . . and any study of
brainwashing has to begin with a study of Christian revivalism in
eighteenth century America. Apparently, Jonathan Edwards accidentally
discovered the techniques during a religious crusade in 1735 in
Northampton, Massachusetts. By inducing guilt and acute apprehension and
by increasing the tension, the "sinners" attending his revival meetings
would break down and completely submit. Technically, what Edwards was doing
was creating conditions that wipe the brain slate clean so that the mind
accepts new programming. The problem was that the new input was negative.
He would tell them, "You're a sinner! You're destined for hell!"

As a result, one person committed suicide and another attempted
suicide. And the neighbors of the suicidal converts related that they,
too, were affected so deeply that, although they had found "eternal
salvation," they were obsessed with a diabolical temptation to end their
own lives.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/bos/bos114.htm

A lot of Energy is released when a group gets together. They call it, "Holy Spirit". I am always wary of any 'movement'.
Even the author talks about the funny feeling in his stomach. Some brain chemicals are getting a boost, and the astral
body is picking up huge waves of Energy. They agree to an altered state of mind when they attend these types of 'revivals'
That also explains why the author mentioned that when he was growing up he was 'saved' every two weeks. There is never a
feeling of completion. New waves of Energy are required.

It's all interesting from an observers' point of view. I would never want to attend a meeting like this one.

[Cleita]

6. When I was a teenager in a small town back in the fifties without much to do,

we used to go to any traveling tent revival meeting in town just to have a good laugh and meet boys. We knew they were grifters and enjoyed the show and you are right there was an energy there but it came from the attendees not the preachers. The altered states of mind comes from the skill of the operators of the show to induce group hypnosis.

[WhiteTara]

27. Great summation

There is enormous energy released in large crowds and I read that stomach energy as anxiety. During my dating time, that was my gauge for whether I was in an unhealthy or healthy relationship...did I feel a clutch in my stomach when I saw that person...if I did, there was something wrong, the release should come from the heart, not the gut.

[Avalux]

9. The prayer event wasn't as innocuous as it seemed...

if Perry had not been involved, I might have looked upon it in a more positive light. But, since he was, and since he said these words in an interview recently -

"the economic crisis is happening for a reason, so that we return to biblical principals" -

it was nothing more than an event designed to make him look apolotical; as a caring, fatherly figure who will take all of us under his wing and pray our troubles away. His words about Obama especially rubbed me the wrong way, and having John Hagee as a featured speaker was offensive.

There was nothing positive about it, knowing Rick Perry as I do.

FYI - the state govt has withheld subsidies intended for seniors and low income residents who need help paying for electricity. They only distributed a small fraction of the millions of dollars, to help cover up the huge deficit Perry and the Republican controlled congress have made.

That IS NOT a christian man; not when people are dying from the heat.

[kentauros]

10. I'm not going to speak to the politics of this, as that wasn't my intent.

I posted the story because the reporter takes a mostly nonpolitical perspective to it, and is quite objective about what he observes. That is all I meant to impose on this forum, not the political side, which is abhorrent. The reporter is a Liberal and a Christian, and managed to show that there were indeed positive aspects to the event, despite the attendance of Perry and all the rest. It says nothing positive about Perry. I hope you read the story and are not just "reacting" because of all the press it got leading up to it...

[Avalux]

13. I read the story; thank you for posting it.

And I do appreciate the author's perspective on the event. However, the cynic in me can't help but wonder if he was paid to write an objective piece, to appeal to reasonable Christians (which is exactly Perry's game plan when he runs).

That's just the way I feel these days. Sorry.

[kentauros]

14. The Houston Press doesn't work that way.

It's a weekly, like the Austin Chronicle. It's certainly not the Houston Chronicle, where I'd expect them to turn it into a fluff piece.

This is really an editorial more than anything; an opinion piece.

Look around the Press' site. You might see they are not like corporate media at all ;)

[cate94]

15. Rick Perry's rally

was paid for by the American Family Association.

The AFA, has been working to deprive GLBT's of rights since the late 70's.

How do you put a positive spin on that?

[kentauros]

16. It's not spin.

Please read the article for an idea of why I posted it. It has nothing to do with the politics of it.

If I had wanted a firestorm, I would have posted this in GD ;)

[cate94]

17. I read the article

and what I posted was not a firestorm. It was a fact. The funding came from a horrible source.

As a lesbian I am deeply affected by what the sponsors have done. They are political. I'm sorry if you are offended, but it is an important aspect of the rally. I think the other members of this group have a right to be fully informed.

[OneGrassRoot]

18. Kentauros wasn't promoting the event by posting this....

He was sharing what he thought was an interesting perspective from a local reporter about the PEOPLE WHO ATTENDED the event.

None of us like Rick Perry. None of us like AFA. None of us like racists and bigots of the varying stripes. Most of us don't care for uber religious people of any sort based on our past experiences.

But please at least step back and see that kentauros was absolutely not posting this in support of the event, and certainly not in support of Rick Perry or AFA or any of the other sponsors.

He shared an interesting perspective written by a local reporter about the people who attended this event, which he thought some of us may find interesting.

I did.

:shrug:

[cate94]

19. I never suggested that

kentauros was posting in support of anything.

I feel it is important to be aware of this aspect of the event while considering the article.

[OneGrassRoot]

20. Okay :) n/t

[Why Syzygy]

21. No doubt...

Perry is anti-gay. That's indisputable. I don't really consider any good side to this event.

"Progressive" and "Christian" cannot be used in conjunction. imo
But I don't really want to discuss that angle. That's why I posted the info about mind control and revivals. This WAS a
revival meeting; even though not named that. I've been to plenty. If there is such a thing as "progressive Christian",
it would not be a demographic that Perry cares about at all. He is not progressive in any shape or form. He's had
his obligatory trip to the Bilderberg coven. He is livestock to The Evil Doers.

I have a strange feeling that the GOP ticket might be a combination of Jeb Bush and Rick Perry. don't know where that's coming from...

I have become very anti-religious of late. Not that I want to go into RT and stomp around. But I can't comment too much
without regret. This isn't the place.

[kentauros]

22. I didn't feel a need to inform anyone of what it really was

because DU has pretty well had it covered for weeks. All the political stuff has been covered very well. This article covered a side that was not being looked at here or, really, anywhere else. The conservatives weren't looking for that kind of reporting any more than the liberals were. It was ignored in favor of the politics. I simply let y'all see a local Houstonian reporting the event as he, a liberal Christian, saw it.

I'm not offended, just perplexed. I had thought that most of the members of this forum understood more about looking at the whole picture versus the normal one-sidedness we get elsewhere on DU.

Also, I was not implying your post was a firestorm, only that many of the posters do seem to have misinterpreted my intentions and it was beginning to develop into a typical GD "discussion" ;)

[cate94]

28. ?

Now I am perplexed. How does one look at the whole picture when only half is presented?

You made an assumption that everyone on this forum had all the information about this event and I did not make the same assumption. The information you chose to not include goes to the very heart of this rally. AFA paid for it for a reason.

Discussion boards are for discussing aren't they? I didn't see anyone call you out for posting this. I did see people doubting the "liberal" part of the reporter's faith, but not one person questioned your intention.

You aren't the reporter are you? :evilgrin:

[kentauros]

31. I suppose only half of the whole is presented (more like one third)

but I still stand by the fact that this story has been on DU for weeks, in LBN, GD, and the Texas forum, the latter being one of the most active state forums here, watched by many that aren't Texans. Yes, I assumed people here would look at the forums elsewhere on DU, but I don't feel that's a bad assumption. If you're at all aware of the news, you would have seen a story on this event at some point in the last few weeks. I felt no need to go over all that again.

It's also obvious that many here, yourself included, were quite informed of this event, or you wouldn't be reiterating that the AFA funded it. I offered a story that took it to a different point of view, and most posts have acknowledged and subsequently ignored the point of view presented in order to focus on what was not reported in this reporter's account. I thought it nice to see a story that didn't take obvious sides and didn't focus on the same stories everyone else has done. I thought ASAH members would want to discuss the positive aspects as reported.

Sure no one outright questioned my intention, but how else am I to perceive an outright ignoring of it in favor of focusing on only the negative parts, what wasn't reported because it had been sufficiently covered already?

I'm not the reporter, though I have considered emailing him, to thank him for his well-reasoned and detached reporting of the event. I think that's another thing people are missing, or passing over. It's that the reporter told a perspective in a detached manner, without seeing the "evil" of those participating and just seeing people instead.

We had a thread here not long ago about something quite "evil", that of the whole debt-ceiling debacle. As important as it is to have a solvent country, here were plenty of members voicing how they had detached themselves from the whole mess, desensitized and unable to process it any longer. As a native Texan and Houstonian, I have started to react to Perry and the rest in a similar manner, rolling my eyes at their latest antics and knowing that no amount of protesting will change anyone's minds on either "side", that only getting more like-minded folks out to vote will change anything. I can look at anything they do in a detached manner, because they've just gone so far over the top that no sane person can really follow unless they're just as insane. I admired the reporter being able to venture into the asylum and simply observe, detached and without judgment. And I'm seeing plenty of judgment on this thread, well-beyond what I perceived as the intention of the reporter's account.

I really don't see any point in discussing what's been discussed over and over on all the other threads elsewhere on DU. Why not discuss what the reporter observed instead? ;)

[eilen]

25. That event was offensive to me as well.

It is not the place or purview of a governor to hold a religious event such as this. It is one thing to practice one's religion in peace and freedom, another to use your time and celebrity as a publicly paid individual to promote it.

I found, without fail, very offensive statements and stands from every individual participating on the stage. I think it was a meeting of like minded political/religious types of a distinct subversive variety-- the kind with an agenda and a fanaticism that can best be exemplified by those of the Crusades. The entire ordeal is just repugnant. I hope they roasted.

[Saokymo]

23. I understand what the guy is saying

Had it not been for the political overtones, this rally would have been a non-event -- just a gathering of people joining together in prayer and spirit. There's nothing wrong with that by itself.

And indeed, his writing is quite unbiased and refreshingly cynical towards all sides. I share in his annoyance at the protesters and counter-protesters: regardless of whatever side you fall on, yelling at the other side does nothing but give everyone a headache and a sore throat. (Though water pistols do sound like an excellent idea! :))


BUT! Perry's petty political games overshadowed that message completely. The attendees may have been there for spiritual reasons, but Perry is only using it for personal gain. *That* is what everyone is really objecting to, not the people gathering in prayer. It's a damn shame, but because of Goodhair's actions you can't separate the spiritual side from the politics so easily.

[OneGrassRoot]

24. What is so telling about this thread.....

is what we see in nearly every discussion these days: varying perceptions based on our individual perspectives.

I wasn't really thinking about the event itself as I pondered the article. Sure, I chuckled at his descriptions and commentary, but I was thinking about ALL religious gatherings, not this particular event. I was more focused on the general dynamics within the realm of spirituality here in the States.

So I was surprised by the reactions, but I shouldn't have been, because everyone perceives it through their own lens, and obviously the event itself is what most were focused on and concerned about since there are many triggers within the event itself for so many.

EDIT TO ADD that after reading my original post -- which was the first response -- I can see why others were concerned that the article (or I) might make fundamental Christianity and all those who created or were pivotal in this event (Perry, AFA, etc.) out to be something they're not...as though, in my ignorance about the event, I was equating Progressive Christians (I've met quite a few of late, but I respect others disagree that such a thing exists) or anything "progressive" with the event itself.

Anyway, it does feel as though everything is polarized these days. The most seemingly innocent sharings can result in amazing differences of opinion.

That's not necessarily a bad thing, but communication is quite trying. Mercury Retrograde, anyone?

:)

:grouphug:

[murielm99]

26. This was posted in the Christian Liberals forum:

http://tpcmagazine.org/article/five-scriptures-you-wont-hear-rick-perrys-prayer-event

It is worth a read.

I consider myself a Christian. I am a liberal Christian.

Perry was wrong to hold this event at all. I don't like to see religion, any religion, politicized. That is one of the reasons that people have such a negative reaction to Christianity.

Too many powerful people have exploited faith.

[cate94]

29. Excellent article!

It is worth the read!
I know there are liberal Christians out there and your article is proof positive.
Thanks for posting it.

[Why Syzygy]

30. Great article ...

This:

I have chosen Christianity as my life's religion, but when nonjudgmental love is taken out of its center, it becomes poisonous and predatory.

Bingo. Very few have nonjudgmental love. In my experience.
The article mentions more than once that Perry feels he was called to MINISTRY. So what's he doing in the Governor's Mansion? It's smarmy.

To clarify my statement re: "progressive Christians". All three of the Abraham-ic religions are relics of the Piscean Age. (hierarchical, patriarchal, possessive, warrior) They won't be joining us in the upcoming Aquarian Age.

OTOH - nonjudgmental love has a place. I don't think that comes so much from Christianity as it does from a person's inner being. You don't have to be 'saved' to love.