Trying to understand the inner workings of self-absorbed people.

[I Have A Dream]

There are a few people in my life who are what I consider to be truly self-absorbed. (Nobody here, just to be clear.) Some of these people truly love me. I know this without question. However, anytime we're together, the subject is always about them and the minutiae of their lives. They never, ever ask about me or what's happening in my life. My husband has noticed the same thing about them because they do it to him also.

This doesn't usually bother me because I really don't like discussing most things about my life. Therefore, I'm usually perfectly happy discussing whatever they wish. However, it always takes me aback when I bring up something about myself in reference to the current subject, and the person completely ignores what I've said and continues completely focusing on him/herself. The conversation is just between me and that person, so I know that the person has heard me.

Here's a very trivial example: At work today, a coworker who always does this mentioned to me that she hasn't been able to eat until late (approx. 8pm) recently because her son has football practice. I said that I could really empathize since I didn't get to eat until 11:30 last night. Most people would say "Wow! That's really late." or something like that. This person just continued on as though I hadn't said anything at all. This always happens when I speak with her. She likes me, and we've known each other a long time.

If I could better understand why people do this, I'd be less likely to feel irritation when this happens.

I'm always happy to lend an ear/shoulder when someone needs support; it's when the discussion is about very mundane things that I get irritated.

Any ideas? :shrug: (Thanks!)

[WhiteTara]

1. Narcisstic people are really tiresome

aren't they? I know people like that too. I try to avoid them, not because I want to give up personal info, but I can only listen for so long and then my ears get tired.

[Ricochet21]

7. I gave up on several lately

it was all about them, I was condoning it for a long time; now, I require a two-way conversation.

[I Have A Dream]

19. I don't usually mind.

I just don't understand why they can't handle the conversation momentarily veering even slightly away from them.

:shrug:

Thanks, WhiteTara. Luckily, most of my encounters like this are in passing. (e.g., while getting coffee, walking in the parking lot, etc.)

[Celebration]

2. yup

You and I notice the same thing! Here is my pet peeve, which is somewhat related......people that like to hear themselves talk so much that they can't join into a group conversation around a table, which is something that I like. Sometimes I end up sitting next to someone that wants a side conversation with me, which I think is rude, but also not nearly as interesting as the main conversation. But they aren't getting enough attention in the group. I honestly think that this is learned behaviour. It is a combination of possibly having to compete for their parent's attention when they were growing up plus a basic lack of picking up social cues. Sometimes I send out overt social cues that I don't want to engage in a side conversation and they don't really get it. But if they are self absorbed, they wouldn't.

It could be an issue with some chakras as well.

But I bet people here have some interesting things to say about this subject.

Oh, my suggestion is to try to avoid these people as much as possible. The worst ones are true energy vampires. We have a relative with issues like this. Sometimes they can get pretty passive aggressive if they aren't getting enough attention. I actually think this must be a sad way to live. I am perfectly happy not getting much attention, but that is the introvert in me I suppose.

[MagickMuffin]

3. I can understand you irritation believe me I have lived through this most of my life

I have come to the realization that we are just sounding boards. It makes them look as though they aren't crazy by talking to "someone" otherwise they would be just talking to themselves.


They don't have a very developed ego, or they have a very high opinion of themselves as being extremely important.

I make a concerted effort to acknowledge other people. To let them talk about themselves. It takes practice to realize that I'm not the only person in a conversation. Hey that's why it's called a conversation because people are conversing with each other.

Even though you like these people I would either limit my time around them, or just come out and ask them why they feel the need to be the only one allowed to talk. That should make them realize how rude and one sided they are, of course they could get offended and never speak / talk to you again.


Just my opinion. Now if you ever need to discuss anything with me then I'm here for you. You can also PM, email, phone call, :think: however you want to express yourself I'm available to you.


:hug:

[NJCher]

4. some possibilities

With this one particular person, who happens to be someone very close to me and whom I love very much, I would try to do the conversations on the phone so I could net surf while I "listened." In this case it was a developmental disorder and was never going to be resolved, so I just "put in my time."

In other situations, the people are just conversationally ignorant. They really don't know the graces of conversation. I work for a university now, but at one time I conducted communication seminars for businesses. Back before business got really cut throat, they would bring someone like me in to conduct interpersonal communication seminars to teach people how to listen. That is, in fact, the heart of the problem. These people don't know how to listen nor do they value what others might have to say.

Still another possibility might be Asperger's.

People who talk too much are like the plague. Everyone avoids them and at some level, they have to know they are being avoided.



Cher

[u4ic]

5. I think they often have boundary issues

Often they see people and the world as those who get imposed upon, and those who impose upon others. Sometimes they're one, and sometimes they're the other. When people find a healthy balance, they can open up to others without fear of being 'imposed upon' or imposing upon someone else. They're either feeling imposed upon, and closed off because they've 'had enough' (which is when they impose).

With the boundary issues comes power issues. Again, bouncing back between feeling powerlessness and powerful (the latter when she can decide whether to include you in her conversation or not).

Sounds like that woman is transferring her feeling being imposed upon by her son/commitments to imposing upon you her troubles, and she doesn't see it at all.

This isn't everyone who is self absorbed; I think there are many types of those. Some are so starved for attention or love that they can only see their hurt, their happiness, their life. Some are truly narcissistic. Some are imitating what they see in the culture, thinking that's the way to relate. I'm sure we could add many more to the list.

And 11:30 IS very late to eat! I hope it isn't a regular occurence for you. :hug: :loveya:

[Ricochet21]

6. Gently ask her

do you realize that you never listen to what I'm saying?

[WhiteTara]

10. The words would never filter through

to her brain.

[Proud_Lefty]

8. Dream, I know you weren't talking about me

but you are asking about the inner workings of a person who finds herself doing this sometimes without realizing it. In fact, I know I've done it to you before. You are such a good listener, that when I talk to you, a few times I got so focused on what I was going through and wanting to know how you feel about it that I didn't even realize until after we got off the phone that we only talked about me and what I'm doing and nothing about you. I felt ashamed and very self absorbed.

I personally hate when people are only interested in talking about themselves and never care what I'm doing or what I say. That's when I decide that if they don't want to know about anything I'm doing, I just won't offer anything about myself anymore to them. Won't even try. It just puts our relationship is a certain category, one I don't seek out and one I don't count on for anything other than a casual conversation once in a while. However, I did have one gal, a former co-worker that used to talk on and on about herself, and whenever I would start talking about anything I did, her eyes would completely glaze over until the conversation went back to her. It was irritating and I decided to avoid her because of that, but she kept coming back to me, wanting to get together and actually helped me out with a major problem I was having. She was so helpful and so giving. Eventually, she told me how close she always felt towards me, that she had the mother/daughter relationship with me that she always wanted, but never had with her real mother. I had to then move her again into a whole brand new friendship category. She meant well, but just didn't want to talk about me when she was talking about herself. No harm intended and she really is a neat person.

We are definitely living in a "me" generation, and too many of us lose sight of how we can come across, especially when we have someone so giving and loving as you to help us through our ordeals.

Thanks for putting up with me, Dream.

[OneGrassRoot]

12. Well said....

"We are definitely living in a "me" generation, and too many of us lose sight of how we can come across, especially when we have someone so giving and loving as you to help us through our ordeals."


:hug: :hug: :hug: to you and IHAD. :loveya:

[Proud_Lefty]

13. Thanks, OGR

Many hugs and love back to you. You definitely understand the "us" generation and are successfully taking us there. Thank you for all you do, my friend.

:hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug: :hug:

[I Have A Dream]

20. Oh goodness, PL! Our conversations aren't even close to what I mean.

When you and I talk, they're serious, important subjects. I would never want to talk about anything else when we're having one of these discussions. (I don't even like talking about what's happening in my life anyway.)

What I'm describing are discussions that are very mundane -- the true definition of small talk, which I hate, as you probably know.

Seriously, please don't ever feel uneasy about our discussions. You would always be there for me anytime I needed you; our friendship is not one-way.

:loveya:

[Proud_Lefty]

22. You're such a sweetie

I know you weren't talking about our conversations, but you did ask what makes a person so clueless. My mother used to point out to me (rather loudly) when she thought I was being rude by going on and on about myself while not asking about the other person. To this day, I'm very self critical of myself, especially in the aftermath of a conversation with a dear sweet friend who lets me talk on and on about what I'm doing. I never thought you were talking about me. I was just giving my view in answer to your question.

:hug:

[Metta]

9. Here you go.

In early childhood development, before the idea of sharing kicks in, children typically seem to be playing together but, upon closer examination, they're not. They're doing what Piaget called parallel play.

That and a perceived need to have the entirety of their say ..., and there you are. You're just a screen onto which they project themselves so, it makes sense that there's no you there.

[BanzaiBonnie]

11. There is merit in all that's been offered here.

In my NVC practice group we worked on dealing with someone who does this. The best policy is honesty, as in, whoa, whoa, whoa, my brain is on overload with all the information you're offering. I need a moment to process it. Or, wait, wait, wait, would you be willing to share with me how you're really FEELING about how your life is going right now. Or, "I'm distressed and really need to be heard right now. Can you do that for me without interrupting or offering solutions? I just need someone to listen.


Most of us rarely get heard and seen for who we are. Family and friends rarely "get us". So, when some lovely person presents themselves who is an active listener, they get it full on. It is a problem of both their own development and societal training. They have a NEED to be heard, but they really don't understand how to communicate what they really need, so they fill the air with small talk.

When you find this happening, you have a couple of choices. I would suggest that when you realize what's happening, just shifting yourself into compassion for their need will may change the tenor of the whole interaction. You will feel differently and that may help. On some occasions you may need to be active in asking for what you need. You can ask that they listen to you. Be forthright. Do not pussyfoot around. Ask for what you need. They cannot read your mind.


I gave a couple of examples above of the kind of thing you might say. But take care of yourself first. You can't give from an empty bucket.

[NJCher]

29. very helpful

I copied and pasted your second paragraph to try out.

People definitely get caught up in their own issues and these phrases could make them stop for a moment and realize that this will actually help their communication. I like the directness and truth of it all, too.

BTW. what is NVC?


Cher


edited to add p.s.

Never mind--I figured it out by visiting your blog. Non-violent communication. :)

[rosesaylavee]

14. Avoid them like the plague.

At a certain point, most people won't change. If these people are very important to you, by all means seek to communicate to them your needs as any true friendship is more (not less) about 50/50 sharing and caring. But prepare yourself for them not getting it all/ or worse, nodding in agreement but never changing their behavior. If they are people who could walk out of your life tomorrow (work situation), limit your exposure to them.

They are just sucking your energy and if they are as narcisstic or personality disordered as you write, they won't notice. You will tho. You will have a lot more energy.



:pals:

[WhiteTara]

15. This article really relates to this conversation.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2011/08/10/notes081011.DTL&nl=fix
Mark Morford talks about toxic and healthy energy.
Trusting your intuition is something we talk about and work on and here is one reason why...and of course, this is the question, we have to come up with our own answer.

snip
What matters is what comes next. You exit said person's company and you go home, sit down, take a breath, gaze inward and check the gauges. You ask yourself: How do I feel?

Are you energized or depleted? Drained and bleary or a little bit amped and pulsing in the core, ready for more? If you are more tired, you have been poisoned. If you are energized, you have been nourished. Simple, no?

This is the test. This is how you know. This is how you can tell if someone is toxic or replenishing to you and your life and it's failsafe and bulletproof and you should hereby use it the rest of your life.


:grouphug:

[Ricochet21]

26. Good idea

and simple
thanx

[LaurenG]

16. I think to make it simple they are needy, so needy in fact that they

can't figure out how to direct their thoughts to someone else. I don't think it's an all the time thing but I think people react to stress/boredom/challenges outside their realm of experience in odd ways and neediness is what I find most often. People who are so preoccupied with their own lives don't even realize they are doing this, if you point it out 9 times out of 10 they are shocked that hey do this.

So how are you doing? Have you been keeping many days of long hours and not eating until midnight? I would pass out at work if I had to keep that schedule for more than a day. :)



On edit: I see WhiteTara brought Mark Morford's article here too, so I'll remove my link. :D

[stellanoir]

17. I'm just too damned self absorbed to respond to this thread.

KIDDING

No seriously, if memory serves, I think we've discussed in the past the collaborative/competitive schism. Ughhh. . .It's quite the predictable yawnfest but can still smart.

More recently I've been thinking how the whole Gecko-ist meme of "greed being good" during the Reagan years as being entirely corrosive to our collective.

"Trickle down" my butt. (not literally)

Not only is it a complete and total fallacy, but it encourages the very same imbalance contributing to complete and total self absorption which you are describing. It is now seems to be endemic to our culture. "Tis tough for Lemurians for sure. Without correction it may just harken our demise.

I've noticed now that things are tougher, desperation can make this behavior all the more intractable.

Maybe if we just know that some people just need to vent sometimes we won't expect anything beyond that. But woh, some are truly clueless.

Ignorance = bliss . . .? hmmmm

Still I much prefer being a sentient sort who appreciates your wisdom and perceptions more than you probably know.

I am hopeful that more will evolve over time and that you can discern better those who are venting versus the true souls who embrace and honor reciprocity. .

Blessings and gratitude for all that you are and all that you do.

Don't let the venters spew on you so much. You are too precious to all of us for that.

:hug:

[get the red out]

18. Tunnel vision

I am very familiar with this type of behavior. I don't know of a solution or even how to get the other person to recognize they are doing this. I feel like it must come from a background of dysfunction that has not been resolved in any way, and the person feels the need to express how they feel to others so much that they simply can't possibly see that relating is a two way street. It is a drive they seek to fulfill, something like "recognize my suffering".

There is so much dysfunction in families in our society. I think this has led to all sorts of difficult behaviors, and when the person never really makes any attempts to look at themselves these behaviors aren't corrected. Sometimes the fear of looking at one's internal workings is so great it will never be done and all their needs operate on an instinctual drive level whether they make sense of not.

[I Have A Dream]

21. Thank you, everyone, for the feedback.

I want to respond to each person individually, but it might take me a little time, so I wanted to give a blanket thank you now to express my gratitude to each of you for sharing your insight and wisdom with me.

[Sweet Freedom]

23. Here's an article

http://www.suite101.com/content/dealing-with-selfabsorbed-people-a141121

I thought this point was interesting--

Discover their underlying needs. Underneath self-absorption is the need for attention and approval. What message might help fill this person's need so they can relax in the conversation - perhaps a true compliment or acknowledgment?

I am dealing with someone like this and our friendship is being seriously tested because of his "all about me" attitude. (Sadly, he has purposely chosen to be this person -- a defense mechanism to protect himself from the wounds of his past.) There are times though, that we have had very deep meaningful exchanges and I realize it's when I have recognized his passion and his pain that he puts down his guard and acts normal.

I guess we all have these people in our lives. :hug:

[Celebration]

24. Interesting thing I discovered, thanks to this post

I kept thinking about "inability to pick up social cues." I thought there must be a kinesiology test that corresponded to this characteristic, and THERE IS!

People that test weak for "picking up social cues" generally test weak for smiling, and visa versa. If the weak response to smiling is shifted to a positive response, so will their response to "picking up social cues."

How interesting! I'm going to try it.

Thanks for the post, because it got me thinking in that direction.

[Kookaburra]

25. What it feels like is

these are people who are trying to get another person to validate their feelings. They've either gotten folks who pretend-listen and don't really say anything, or those who will be argumentative with them (tell them to suck it up, etc.), when what they really want is someone to say "Yes, your feelings are valid." They may be destructive feelings, and these folks are likely not putting all that energy to its best use, but they are real feelings, and not being validated internally, so directed outward. It's a true gift you have, OGR, to be able to Listen to people, and thus provide them with some validation. Yes, it can be draining on relationships, and usually these are not the people we consider "best friends," but chances are you are the only person they know who makes them feel better.

I don't even pretend to understand psychology -- just posting what I feel from folks like this.

[eilen]

27. I respond differently to these types of people depending on what role they are in.

For example, in my personal life, I avoid them like the plague. Energy vampires. It is like dealing with 3 year olds.

In my job, I often have patients like this. In this role, they get my attention and I listen... to a point. Some are very greedy and don't understand there are other patients so they become very demanding and try to staff split and manipulate. This personality type is often seen in what I like to classify as "hospital hobbyists"--they collect medical problems and syndromes like other people collect rare wines. It is very obvious when we get one. I'm certain there is a DSM-- kind of like Munchausen's Syndrome. It is exhausting listening to them about their health problems and how everyone in their life abuses them, and how many doctors were rude, malpracticed/didn't know what they were doing ... etc.

Don't get me wrong, there are patients that do have very complicated comorbidities and are very sick -- however, they tend not to revel in their suffering as the hobbyists do, in fact-- they try to function as best they can or sometimes are so very depressed by their situation that they don't find it the most fascinating topic of conversation whenever anyone walks in and they try to avoid hospitalization and take seriously the medical advice given.

[Kookaburra]

28. This just occurred to me

I posted earlier about this feeling like a need for validation, but in the case of these people it feels like it goes deeper. It feels to me like these folks have gone through life feeling like they don't belong here/were never wanted here, and this is their way of trying to figure it out. Yes, it's unhealthy. Yes, it's annoying. Yes, it's totally messed up.

It really does feel like an attempt to justify their existence -- for someone to tell them that they are not just a waste of oxygen on this planet. Maybe they were raised by either distant/absent or abusive parents and could possibly haven even been told they were never wanted? This is so sad I want to cry.

Disclaimer: I know nothing about psychology, but as an empath, I know what I feel, and this breaks my heart.

[BrendaBrick]

30. I think that basically....

most folks have forgotten that there is such a thing a wonderful thing as active listening.

[WhiteTara]

31. Do you think self absorption obsessed upon

is the basis of mental illness? To not be able to see anything outside yourself?

[marions ghost]

32. narcissistic behavior

can be associated with mental illness. Not in every case, but many. These people really need a therapist but they prevail on friends and relatives. It's cheaper, and they don't have to change anything.

I have a "friend"--she calls me that but I don't call her that--I have a higher standard for friendship--anyway this person persists in writing constant emails about what she is doing, a lot of it is what I'd call minutiae. I'm there for important news or some problem or issue with friends --but I do not want a constant brain dump. She is often competitive on top of being self-absorbed. In other words if you tell her anything about your problems she will use it to tell you how she has conquered that, or say she doesn't understand why you have that problem because she doesn't. True Narcissism.

You know what I do with this person???? I don't ever try to teach her or change her. I delete her emails and give her lots of



(Space)

This person can never be what most of us would call a "friend." Friendship is give and take, not only take. My bottom line is--if I feel some degree of anger about how I'm being treated by another person--that is a GOOD indicator that I should not let them in as a friend.

That way you have room for the real, true friends.