Saturn in the seventh

[Thirtieschild]

I'd like to hear from others with Saturn in the seventh. It seems that I have given away my discipline and would like to know if any one else has the same experience.

Also, does your 7th describe your partner? My 7th, btw, perfectly describes my husband - I have Saturn in the 7th at 28 Aquarius, conjunct Mercury and Venus, both at 1 Pisces; husband is supremely responsible and as disciplined as I am disorganized (Saturn), a writer and younger than I am, which wasn't common when we married in 1957 (Mercury), and an artist and a Libra (Venus).

[cassiepriam]

1. Saturn, Lord of Karma

This is a significant placement for relationships. It is likely your partner is someone with whom you have had direct karma from a previous life, there are likely to be old debts and obligations to work on, or a promise to be honored.

Through this relationship you are likely to become more aware of your own strengths, inner resilience, discipline and integrity.

In your past lives you tended to opt out of relationships when difficulties arose, and this partnership gives you a valuable opportunity to see a relationship through.

I can't really comment on the discipline part of the question, I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean the problems one would have with the Merc and Venus in Pisces? The dreamy romantic person who is unfocused, problems with boundaries, confuses emotions with thoughts? The Venus in Pisces may like to live in a fantasy world. (I am a Merc Pisces and it is difficult to stay on topic and focused, my brain floats off in other directions.) The Saturn sitting next to your Merc in Pisces should help you focus, concentrate and keep you on task.

So I am not sure what is going on with you. Is the disorganization more recent or life long? Do you have any opps or squares to this stellium? Are you having any current health problems?

[Thirtieschild]

2. Saturn and discipline

My Sun, Moon & ascedant are all fixed so I have lots of determination, but no discipline - have a very hard time forcing myself to do something I don't want to do, e.g., I'm trying to finish writing a novel, but shy away from the hard work of sitting down and doing it.

I have a friend with Saturn within two minutes of a conjunction with the M.C. and her discipline is astounding. My husband's Saturn is within five degrees of the M.C. and he is also tremendously disciplined. (As shown in my chart.) Both had extreme early success (at ages 21 and 23 respectively), the success fizzled, but both were successful in their mid sixties. Curious.

You mentioned how unfocused Mercury in Pisces can be - my husband, who knows zilch about astrology, has said several times that trying to pin down my thinking is like trying to catch a fish with his bare hands. Everyone I know with a difficult Mercury-Saturn sees the glass as mostly half-empty. I'm a writer and tend to use too few words, while a friend with a Mercury-Jupiter conjunction uses too many.

Thanks for your insights into Saturn in the seventh.

[cassiepriam]

3. Where is your Mars?

Your DH's metaphor is quite apt. Yes the fish swim in both directions at the same time if you look at the glyph. No wonder he can't catch them :)

My brain works the way yours does to some extent. But my mercury is the ruler of my chart conjunct my sun, moon, nn in Pisces. And I have lots of Mars in Scorpio energy (can be one the strongest forces in existence I think), as well as some saturn and neptune energy pouring into my Merc. And it gets some Virgo energy as well. So I can be focused and disciplined to the exclusion of all else. When I am writing or working on a project an atomic bomb could go off and I would not notice it.

One of the best things I find to discipline myself is to make a project schedule and stick to it. I make myself write so many hours a day etc. Set the schedule very strictly and then stick to it.

[Thirtieschild]

4. Your discipline sounds like my Saturn-conjunct-M.C. friend

She's also able to set a writing schedule and stick to it. I'm surprised someone with so much Pisces can manage it. What kind of writing do you do? I think Mercury in Pisces is almost as good as Neptune in the third for writers.

My Mars is at 21 Libra, opposing Uranus at 27 Aries and both square Pluto, which, at 24 Cancer, is within one minute of the Mars/Uranus midpoint. Mars in Libra is an albatross, makes confrontations all but impossible. I envy your Mars in Scorpio energy. I have Jupiter at 21 Scorpio and love it there. I attract Scorpio Moons conjunct my Jupiter.

My chart is basically weak - four planets in detriment: Sun, Mercury, Mars and Neptune, with the Sun not only in detriment and cadent, but three degrees from an opposition to my Leo ascendant. Also makes an exact quincunx to Neptune. Neptune just finished its transit of Sun and 7th, with results I didn't expect. Coming out of my second house, it brought predictable financial struggles, but otherwise was a great experience - it's like, at age 71, I have a life of second chances. Also as if I resolved the difficulties of the quincunx - finally - which freed me.

Hope I'm not writing too much and too long about my own chart. We retired to the sw corner of NM four years ago, and I'm thirsty for astro talk.

Edited for typo

[cassiepriam]

5. Karmic astrology

I am not classically trained, so perhaps others on this forum are more what you are looking for!

But I will say a bit more about karmic astrology and then be quiet!

In terms of my Pisces, it is worse than you know, I have my sun, moon, mercury, north node in Pisces. Everyone on this forum is tired of hearing me complain about it :)

My self- discipline probably comes from my Saturn in the 2nd, more below about that.

My Mars in Scorpio is awesome, quite a responsibility however. The power has to be used wisely or it can be very bad! It is quincunx to Jup in Aries so I could blow things up if I am not careful, which I already did in one last life :)

I write mostly work related material. I would like to write fiction but it is much harder to write than non fiction. What kind of things do you write?

My area of interest is karmic astrology, which does not see any natal chart as bad or good, weak or strong. It is the chart you chose before birth, your treatment plan for this life, indicating the lessons you wanted to learn, and the gifts brought forward. A person can work on the negative or positive energy in the natal chart, that is free will. If you learn the lessons of your squares and opps in this life, next life they come back as trines and sextiles. A bit simplistic but you get the idea.

And in karmic astrology the second house is the karmic gift house, representing credits on the karmic credit card! It is a blessing to have planets in that house, as they are talents and resources brought forward from past lives. Saturn is a good placement there, I have Saturn in the 2nd and this gives me wisdom, self discipline, and integration. My Neptune is there as well, and it gives me spirituality and imagination. The fact they are conjunct means that I need to have things crystal clear or I get frustrated, and my spirituality takes a very practical direction and cannot get too far out. But again a person can use these gifts or not.

[Thirtieschild]

6. Wish I knew more about karmic astrology

If the second house is what we've earned, my granddaughter has earned a tremendous legacy - she has Uranus, Neptune, Sun, Saturn, Mercury in the second, all in Capricorn, all but Mercury trined by Moon in Taurus. She visited both her mother and me in dreams before she was born - with so much Capricorn fear to deal with, she wanted us to get to know her beforehand. She's handling it very well - from the beginning I've recognized a Wisewoman.

[cassiepriam]

9. A really good book is Judy Hall's Patterns of the Past

I highly recommend it for anyone interested in karmic astrology.

Wowie Kapowie on your gd's loaded second house. She came back in this life with a loaded credit card, all credit! Hope she spends it wisely, in karmic astrology we have total free will. We can screw up our gifts if we so choose! What does she have in the 12th? That is the debit side of the ledger.

These are the gifts your gd has brought forth from past lives:

2nd house:
Sun: the inner Self has been developed in past lives
Uranus: creative thought with a wonderful understanding of vibrational forces and a natural affinity for change and transformation
Neptune: Gift of imagination and spirituality
Saturn: wisdom, self-discipline, and integration
Mercury: has developed the mind and has an innate intelligence that can be used to understand the world and souls around her.

These gifts will manifest with Cap energy, and the energy on the house cusp if different. Are they all in a stellium? If so then even Merc is going to get the moon energy. They are acting like one unit to some extent, when energy hits a part of the stellium, it hits the rest, like tuning forks.
Her moon is in Taurus?

[Matariki]

8. Venus in Pisces is VERY well placed - especially in the 7th

It shouldn't cause any problems, but supports the horoscope as a whole. Mercury is weak in Pisces but is well supported by Venus and Saturn. I would expect someone with Venus in 7th house Pisces to be VERY aware of their emotions, and have a very healthy emotional life. On the other hand, Mercury in Pisces might make a person experience a certain amount of 'fuzzy thinking'. But in this chart its supported well enough by a strong Venus and Saturn, plus in a strong house - so my bet is that it contributes more to a fertile imagination than to 'fuzzy thinking'.

[Matariki]

7. Congratulations on such a long relationship

Having Saturn conjunct Venus probably contributes to that - plus they are both strong in the signs they're in.

What i think is interesting about the 7th house is how it can reflect our tendency to find people with traits we want in ourselves. With a strong and well placed Saturn like you have, you should be able to be as disciplined as you want to be. Sounds like you've done a bit of vicarious living though your husband and you should work to get those traits you want in yourself.

You must have Leo rising? Where is your Sun located?

ps - I just reread your post - you used the words 'giving away my discipline'. Bingo! That is exactly what is possible with 7th house planets. You should be able to look at the traits in your husband that you admire and want and build them in yourself - they are already there really, as indicated by your chart.