I want to post this here because I am interested in

[Ecumenist]

the opinions of my family here think about this subject. I posted this this morning in reply to the discovery of a missinglink in the evolution of life from completely amphibious to a land based form.

Sadly, there are far too many so called "people of faith" who have this type of Luddite reaction to anything that is outside the guidelines that these types place on there image of God. I am a Christian and I have never understood why there has to be such a chasm between science and faith, creationism and evolution. I majored in biology in college and I had had many discussions about my belief and how I viewed the world of science considering my belief in God. Never saw a problem and in fact, have always considered myself to be what I term, evolutionary creationist. This was something that was instilled in me from my earliest recollection and I was taught that if God created all things, it wouldn't make sense to believe that He didn't have at least a heavy hand in science. After all, anyone with at least a basic idea of how languages translate one to the other understands that although it's possible to literally translate one language to another, the meaning is often COMPLETELY LOST in that translation IF there has been no allowance for transliteration or the transfer of the actual meaning of whatever word, statement or idea with that translation.
That being said, it's not a leap of faith, (no pun intended, I think), to realise that many passages in the Bible weren't fully and wholly translated. Things were transposed and substituted by scribes who weren't what we would call expert linguists, editing out and adding words, phrases and terms, often changing what the original meaning was completely. I notice that the people who call themselves fundamentalists conveniently leave out parts of the Bible that don't conform to or support their stances but all the same, there are passages that talk about the difference in time, (1 day with God is as a thousand years with man), etc.
Who's to say what kind of time passed in the creation of the Universe and why would it be heretical to say that there is no conflict between faith and science, to the rational and those who have TRUE FAITH, not the sunday morning Bible thumpers. I and countless like me, Christian, Muslim, Jew, etc, find it only reinforces the wonder and faith when discoveries like this "missing link" are made because they represent another piece in the puzzle. In fact, there are references to Leviathan in the old testament and it doesn't take rocket science to deduce what the author was referring to.
I've heard it said that if there were ever contact or discovery of another race of intelligent beings from another planet, if there was governmental disclosure of that fact, it would cause panic in the global population because it would cause the breakdown of religious belief, leading to the complete disintegration of civilisation as we know it. I always tried to wrap my head around that because, if anything, I believe it would serve to make God , for those of us who believe, more divine, faith inspiring because creation would extend beyond this earth and open up any possibility... the caveat here, for the true Christians and not a just some membership in a boot-licking troglodyte "church". My mother always said that God made our heads hollow to contain something other than water, though lately, you'd never know it from listening to and observing far too many fellow Americans. Alot of what they term as faith and a true belief in the Divine is actually artificial constructs based on a dogma created by other men, other humans, who are every bit and grain as fallible as the next. Frankly, speaking, Science discovery and seeking knowledge isn't the sin, IGNORANCE is and intentional IGNORANCE based on a religiously flawed dogma is a MORTAL Sin, against the same God these type profess to believe in. After all, if God created Man and everything in the earth and beyond, he gave that same man a brain and ability to use that brain to question, learn, explore and teach. Believe me, there are many more like me than the philistines who parade before the cameras, microphones and newspaper to try to beat the rest of the the Globe into the flat form they want it to be. At times, I almost expect a new, improved Inquisition, complete with prime time burnings at the stake.
:rant:

[mother earth]

1. Funny you should bring this topic up, as I have just started to

read The Jesus Papers and DH & I were having a similar conversation today about this very subject. He plans on reading the book after I do, but we are both familiar with the topic which raises the possibility that Jesus survived the cruxificion. DH has always been more of a churchgoer than I have been, though we were both raised as Catholics. He felt that perhaps if Jesus did not die on the cross, as we were taught, it somehow diminished everything we were taught and came to believe. My feelings are that if your faith is strong, no amount of truth can diminish any of it. Any religion who says these are the rules & you cannot question really diminishes faith in its own followers, it belittles the intelligence of human beings. It seems to me that knowing more and learning more about everything in this world can only serve to prompt one to believe that there truly is a supreme being.

Embrace science, wherever it leads, because it only serves to shine on more of the absolute brilliance of this world and how we are all connected. Much like the history classes we were part of as children going to school, the truth is barely touched upon.

The church has suppressed much of what our "bible" is today, they sifted through the authentic writings and what we have today is their version of christianity, their reality.

Interestingly, the same writer who wrote The Jesus Papers is also the author of Holy Blood, Holy Grail & The Inquisition, among others. It's really quite sad that much of the knowledge that has been handed down through the generations has been suppressed or destroyed. Just like today, one must always question who benefits?

[Ecumenist]

2. You know, faith by it's very definition....

allows one to believe in God and Divine nature of creation in a fashion that may seem to some to be illogical. As the saying goes, for the believer, no proof is necessary while for the skeptic, no proof is enough. Welcome to DU, Mother Earth..:hi:

[MissWaverly]

3. I think that the world itself is proof of God

Also maybe the evolutionists and the fundies are both right. Maybe the most apelike creature on our ancestral tree would surprise you. If he could visit you in spirit today,
he may recognize your scent and acknowledge you as "kin." He may sit down and show appreciation of your home and its many conveniences. He may even criticize you for trashing
his world with global warming and landfills. He may have the soul but not the fine tuned
features that we appreciate in modern man. But as he left, he would probably hug you
good bye and say take care of my grand children and my animals and the "garden."

[Ecumenist]

4. You know, MissWaverly,

I believe that. I believe that the basic problem is that man is arrogant in that the creation is trying to define the Creator. I honestly believe what you're saying. When I was about 15 years old, my mother asked me a very interesting question. We were watching some program about the nature of God, I can't remember what it was about now. The question was, "if God turned out to be completely different from you, as in a huge benevolent Slug, how would you fell about Him?" I thought about it for a few seconds and I said, "so what? It's not what He looks like but what His heart is and the fact that God loves me UNCONDITIONALLY." She nodded her head and said, "Good, I've taught you well, then."
Therefore, I've never understood why it was ever my business or the business of anyone to try to meddle in God's work and His plan for creation. I believe as you do and think you're completely right about understanding that the Face of God in everywhere and in everything.

[MissWaverly]

5. Thank you

I believe that God is so much bigger than we are, we are like only 1 molecule in the total
of what he is. But I believe that he is perfect, and that he is love and the beauty of this
planet reflects this. But I also believe that all plants, insects and animals on our planet
share the boat with us and that they too have an ability to reason and a sense of living;
but they are not miniature people; their thought is unique to them.

I saw a news article on Tv about bears in Garrett County Maryland. This black bear broke
into this guy's house and grabbed his freezer that was full of meat. The bear was going to
walk out the door with the freezer and altercation happened and the bear was scared off
without the freezer. The bear figured out not only how to break into the house, but that
the freezer was full of meat and that he could have his meat to go and the bear waited until
the middle of the night when everyone was in bed to do it. Sophisticated reasoning for a dumb animal.

:-)

[Ecumenist]

6. LOL!!

I'll say this... That bear is a far sight more intelligent than the idiot occupying the oval office. That bear had a plan. Get in the building, find and identify the target, sucessfully accomplish the objective and then carry the container, (Pick-a-nick basket, anyone?), to a safe and secure location to open and enjoy the yummy contents. Most importantly, "Yogi" was able see that once discovered by the "enemy", there was no way to complete the mission without what would have been a Pyrrhic Victory at best, intelligently weighed the realistic options, shucked the freezer and made a smooth and successful exit, "stage left" to learn a survivable lesson. As the saying goes, "he who fights and runs way, lives to fight another day.":applause:

"Yogi" could teach a thing or two to the bunch in the Whitehouse.

[MissWaverly]

7. not only that he had reliable intelligence

he knew that the weapons against mass hunger were stored in a secure location.

I got an idea, send that bear after Osama Bin Forgotten!

[Ecumenist]

8. HELLO!! ROFLMAO!!

If "Yogi" is sent into the mountains of Afghanistan and Pakistan, he'd end this mess within a 3 month period. Think about it, He has perfect cover and blends into the flora and fauna of the area PERFECTLY. Heck, the Taliban and the Muhajadeen would never recognise him. Plus, he's got the good sense to know when to withdraw and regroup. :hide:

[MissWaverly]

10. He works cheap, all he needs are coolers with

ziplock baggies full of marinated meat, (the human who owned the freezer was a hunter
and the freezer was full of deer meat).

[Ecumenist]

11. Cuisine duBois....

The happening thing in Yellowstone and Yosemite..... No chance of Halliburton effing up the food or contract.. :rofl:

[MissWaverly]

12. think about how smart the bear was

First, he had a plan, he did not expect to be greeted as "liberators"
two, he had reliable intelligence, the location of weapons of mass hunger
three, he assessed possible threats to his objective, enemy forces and
scheduled his assault when they were not likely to be in the area
four, he carried out his mission and when he saw the odds were too great, he
changed his plan and staged a tactical withdrawal

[Ecumenist]

13. dubya et al could learn a thing or two from

the Ursine race....:banghead:

[MissWaverly]

14. I was thinking that he could replace Karl Rove

with the bear, I don't think anyone would know the difference.

[mother earth]

9. Very appropriate words, & thanks for the welcome!

O8)