I first want to apologise to you guys because I don't want to

[Ecumenist]

appear as if I'm monopolising this board but something just hit me like a lightening bolt. Because of the nature of the beliefs amongst us, I'm sure that i can safely ask a question. It is VERY well known that the book of Revelation, even for those who do not identify as Christian that there will be a beast whose number adds up to "666". I was just listening to Randi Rhodes who was playing a sound bite of rumsfailed speaking about how long the Iraq war would last, something that we've all heard numerous time. It occurred to me when he said, (close summary), "It may last 6 days, 6 weeks or 6 months". Now, maybe it's me but it's a bit creepy considering that this bunch is trying, for all the world and all their might, to get us all killed. when you look into the prophecies and understand what the author was trying to convey to us, it's a little terrifying, to say the least. It's bee said that bush et al belong to and subscribe to a doomsday cult and this does not sit well with me AT ALL. I wonder if this is a permutation that the beast may indeed refer to a philosophy. This is "war on innocents" has the number of 666. Does anyone else see this

For what it's worth, I don't think that they are going to be able to get away with trying this NOW and I feel that there are forces from within and without who are actively tying to stop this bunch. I've been shown that the information that has be revealed is but the tip of the iceberg. I feel that there's something else that is not only corroborative but a bigger political bombshell than everything else that has come to the fore. I feel that this will take place within the next 10 days.

[BlueIris]

1. ...okay. Anything else?

What is the focus of this scandal? Can you give us a hint? Not skeptical, just...bigger than everything else that has come before? The sense I've had is that the scandal is not necessarily "bigger," just more devastating.

[lady lib]

2. Any feelings about Seymour Hersh's

latest on the US possibly using nukes against Iran?

[Ecumenist]

13. I believe him and what he's saying.

I believe that they didn't expect for this to slip out before they had a chance to put this into play. I believe that they're running scared, big time but are starting to understand that even their base isn't supportive anymore, at not least in the rubber stamp fashion they were before.

[Cleita]

3. I have a problem with the 666

prophesy because in the days that the Book of Revelation was written, Roman numerals were used. So the mark of the beast could be VIVIVI if you interepret it as being six, six, six or DCLXVI if you interpret it as six hundred and sixty six.

So it looks completely different from this point of view. Also, the Julian calendar was used if you are trying to pinpoint dates so what Rummy says has little to do with what was intended in the book.

[suziedemocrat]

5. 666 = hebrew for Ceasar Nero who persecuted Christians.

At least that's what I was taught in Catholic School at least. I found a few links. (Edit to follow 4 paragraph rule.)

http://www.abu.nb.ca/Courses/NTIntro/Rev.htm

The mark of the beast, 666, is the sum of the numerical values of the Hebrew letters used in the transliteration of "Neron Ceasar." (In Hebrew, letters are used as numbers.)

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=007eJp

"The significance of the number 666 was obviously understood by the original Christian communities from which and to which the Revelation was sent. Bratcher and Hatton (A Handbook on the Revelation to John, New York: United Bible Societies , 1993, pages 204-205) provide a good summary of current conclusions:

"'There are many interpretations of the name represented by the number 666. The most widely accepted one is that it stands for the Roman Emperor Nero. Written in Hebrew letters, the numerical value of the letters of the ... name "Neron Caesar" adds up to 666. Some commentators are of the opinion that no one specific person was in the writer's mind, but that by 666 the writer meant total imperfection. Number six is one short of the perfect seven, and three indicates completeness, so the imperfect number six given three times symbolizes "complete imperfection." But the way in which the writer states the matter makes it quite probable that he had some historical person in mind ... As the RSV (Revised Standard Version) footnote shows, one Greek manuscript and a few ancient versions have 616, but 666 is the better attested text.'

"It might be worth noting that though Revelation was written in Greek, the author was very familiar with the the commerce, economy, and geography of Jerusalem and the surrounding region. Werner Georg Kummel (Introduction to the New Testament, Revised Edition, translated by Howard Clark Kee, Nashville: Abingdon Press, 1975, page 465) quotes J. Schmid, who wrote: 'The author thought in Hebrew but wrote in Greek.'"

[Cleita]

6. This makes more sense.

Thanks for posting. I assume that this is kabbala, which would be used by the Jewish early Christian writers for prophesy.

So if CaesarNero keeps being reincarnated, could Bush be one of those incarnations?

[Ecumenist]

14. Interesting....

I'm nondenominational protestant, with strong touches of Judaica, ( long story, don't ask). From the study of the scripture in Greek, I cannot understand how Nero could be seen as the "beast". I do not claim to be a great greco-linguistic scholar but that's interesting. Now, I can see Nero being a example of a beast, just as there have more than one AntiChrist. But, this final beast will be the penultimate and was definitely described as a future figure. the number 6 is supposedly used because it is contrary to the perfect number of three, expressed in the Trinity and the multiples of 3, the 12 disciples, etc. 6 was also thought to be perverting the Holy number 3. That's neither here nor there in the greater scheme of things. Again, I simply wanted to have the opinions of others on this board in reference to what I thought.

[Ecumenist]

10. Cleita, I didn't say anything about a date nor was that anywhere

near what I was talking about. I was thinking in terms of symbolism. Obviously, people have different interpretations and that I accept. I was trying to go outside the boundaries of what has been discussed. I am a Christian and have spent literally DECADES studying the Bible, using Strong's concordance and even going over the "Old Testament" with teachers who not only understood but spoke Hebrew and Aramaic, as well as Greek. This I tell you to show you where I'm coming from. I am VERY aware of the lettering and numbering system. I understand latin as well, not to mention 4 other languages besides english. WHAT I was saying is that perhaps considering that in Revelation(also in the books of Daniel, Joel,and a few other books in the old testament as well as a feel in the pseudoepigraphia and the Apochrypha), among the things that we are warned to look for was wars and rumours of wars, storms in diverse places, (many different), pestilence etc. It just occurred to me as I was listening that the fact that these imbeciles seem determined to start Armageddon,(actually named for the valley Har Megiddo, the ancient name for the Rift Valley) and the fact that there are , I believe, signs and information that everywhere to see and hear, IF, as we're told, we have "ears to hear.".

As for timing, reread the post and you'll notice I didn't say anything about timing, so I don't know where the Julian calendar comes into play. :shrug:

[Cleita]

15. You probably know better than me, but wasn't the Julian

calendar lunar with thirteen months instead of twelve? This means that the sixth month would be a different day that in our Gregorian solar calendar. I'm really not sure about that though except that the dates would fall on different days in each system. Anyway it's all speculation.

As far as prophesy is concerned, I think all religious texts have some prophesy in them, whether it's the Bible or the Koran or even the Book of Mormon. Precognizance I believe cuts across the board. However, as Kineta says unless you are willing to study the numerology system of the kabbala and the nuances of the times it's a waste of time because evidentally the Book of Revelation is pretty much written in code.

[Ecumenist]

17. I would have to agree with you regarding your opinion that precognition

Is indeed something granted to further enhance any prophecy that has been handed down through the ages whether in the Quran, Pentateuch, Torah, Bible, The Vedas, etc. There seems to be an undeniably common thread that runs through all ancient book, no matter where their written.

However, I have to agree to disagree where it comes to the impossibility of understanding Revelation because of it's Qabbalistic origins. I will say this, one CANNOT begin to understand alot of what is being said UNLESS you study all of the related texts AND use books that are helpful in transliteration, idioms and vernacular of that era. The point is that contrary to what people commonly believe, you cannot just pick up the Bible, study that one book, without understanding the related and earlier works and expect to make any headway towards mucking through the prophecies, warnings and instructions of the Apocalypse. That being said, I believe also that each person has a different viewpoint, a different way of looking at things and interpreting things. As the saying goes, to each their own. That's why I believe, God created our souls with free will, thought and individuality. Two different people can look at something and each person will see something that applies to their own life, completely different from what may seem, on first glance, identical information.

[Matariki]

4. the book of revelations

is convoluted qabala. and has, through the centuries been confusedly interpreted by non-qabalists with no capacity to even begin to understand it. unless you have a deep understanding of qabala and good historical grasp of the time it was written, i'd forget about it.

[Cleita]

7. Too bad the fundies don't know this.n/t

[Matariki]

9. true enough

the scary thing is that I think there are people in our government using Revelations as a game plan, because they want it to be true.

[Ecumenist]

11. They have a habit of twisting anything that doesn't

conform to what they believe their way of thinking.

[Ecumenist]

18. As I stated earlier, I have to agree to disagree...

I don't believe that it's a book of convoluted Qabbala and as such, it is impossible to understand. Do I believe that There are no Qabbalistic qualities in Revelation? Of course.. one would have to be idiotic not to take that probability into consideration. My differing opinion is that is far more than just Qabbala. The scriptures have layers of meaning and each time one returns to study them, something more is revealed. I believe that a learned Qabbalist would glean information encoded in a way that is familiar to them BUT they would also miss ALOT of information that is there because the book isn't one dimensional. The point is, to each there own and what is meant to for one isn't necessarily meant for another.

[leanin_green]

8. Like all things with that book

it is impossible to speculate about what the symbols mean. Every generation can apply some aspect of the symbology to their times. I believe that is the nature of the work. Because you never know when the time is appointed. Therefore, always be ready and live your life according to good principles. How do we know that the symbol for 666 isn't just the symbol for the beast in all of us? Or that the book is really delving into something that each of us go through as we approach our own "end time?"

Your concern, however, for those who hold to the standard interpretations of this book hold the seats of power is a valid concern. It also fits how they operate, FEAR. Because every new interpretation of Revelation that comes down the pike is usually used by the interpreter as fear based message. To excite and stir up the faithful for the appointed hour. It is so easy to manipulate people by fear. And the Book of Revelation is an easy mark to use.

[Ecumenist]

12. The funniest thing is that in the same Bible they

believe in has a VERY strong admonishment in the last chapter of Revelations not to add to nor take away from the words of the Book, because as they take away from or add to, so will their punishment be added to and their reward be taken away from them. They very CONVENIENTLY forget or overlook that part.

[I Have A Dream]

16. Ecumenist, why would you think that we'd think that you're...

even close to monopolizing the board? I certainly don't! You always have very interesting observations and things to say, which is exactly the point of why this group's here, in my opinion. Thanks for posting what you post!

:hi:

[Punkingal]

19. What confuses me about Bush and his cabal...

Is whether they are CONSCIOUSLY trying to destroy the planet, or they are doing it from subconscious motivations and desires. It just doesn't seem to me that Bush would entertain that what he is doing is destructive. I really think he believes he is some sort of savior, but I don't believe he consciously believes he is destructive.