How exact do I need to know my time of birth for a reading?

[mrgorth]

I've been going through a rough time and would like some sort of reading. THing is I know date and place but only approximate time. I checked my birth certificate last night and there is no time on there even. Help?

[stellanoir]

1. Okay sorry

I started to write a lengthy rsponse to this when you first posted.

I foolishly got distracted by last minute holiday preparations and inadvertantly deleted the draft, but will elucidate after I get over the hurdle of Christmas morning.

But basically, the rising degree in a chart changes every four minutes.

Don't panic though, most birthdays have enormous vaguary prior to the early seventies. Most astrologers would initially cast a Solar Chart pretending that you were born at sunrise and then rectify it from there, being able to give you some modicum of information. Rectification is usually based on charting 10-13 significant life changes you've experienced over the course of your life and spinning your chart accordingly.

You can in the meantime, check baptismal records, baby books, and any anecdotal familial stories surrounding your undoubtedly illustrious birth.

Muscle reflex test have also garnered some significantly conclusive findings as to birth times.

Good luck and happy holidays.

More later.

[Eloriel]

2. How approximate?

As Stellnoir points out, the rising degree changes every 4 minutes, but takes a whole day (approx.) to cycle through one sign of the zodiac, so a fairly close approximattion will be helpful if not absolutely definitive. Obviously, the closer the better, but if you tell an astrologer about your predicatment, s/he MIGHT be able to rectify it in the process of drawing the chart up, esp. if your approximation is accurate (IOW, you know for sure you were born "around 1:30" and not 5:45 or 8:30, if that makes sense).

The time of birth gives an astrologer the following information:

* exact rising sign degree
* exact Moon sign degree
* more accurate progressions (which are based on birth time)


Good luck. The nice thing about an astrological consult at a time like this is that it gives you both some rationale for what's going on in your life (and sometimes that information includes hints about how to buck it or ride it out), and information about when the %$#@ cycle will END -- and that alone often helps a LOT (heheh, ask me how I know).

[NMDemDist2]

3. heheeheee.... so How DO you know??

i was thinking of you today and came to the conclusion that you and DesertRose and LWolf are the ladies I'd most like to meet and hang out with

I'll have to make the effort to get up the hill to meet DR soon but a trip to OH isn't in my 'Stars' anytime soon I don't think :(

:hug: and happy happy holidays!!!

[mrgorth]

4. I was born...

on May 15th 1969 in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania between 3:45 and 4:30pm. If this is close enough let me know. I've got some really serious shit going on right now and would appreciate a reading. I need some positive news in a bad way. I think it would take me a while to get my time of birth as I'd have to send a written request to the hospital. Thanks in advance.

[NMDemDist2]

5. delete

http://www.alabe.com/freechart/

[mrgorth]

6. Here's my chart.

[Eloriel]

7. Well, I drew up a quick chart for 4 pm

That gives me an inaccurate ascendent and an inaccurate Moon position (and because of the inaccuracy of the Moon esp., I didn't even bother with progressions).


The only thing I can see is a big, bad ole EXACT square from Transiting Pluto to natal Pluto. The other "baddies," transiting Saturn and Chiron are exactly opposite one another, but sextiling/trining your Sun (sextiles and trines are GOOD and offer strength and forbearance). If there's something else, I'm missing it.

Pluto square Pluto isn't something you'll ever have to go thru again, but from my own personal experience, you can either think you're dying or WISH you were dying or dead.

Depending on what you're going thru, I suppose, the pressure should ease off by mid-January when it moves on to 23 Sag from the current 22 Sag position. However, Pluto goes retrograde at 24 Sag in late March and by late June will start hitting 22 Sag again, which is that square to your natal Pluto at 22 Virgo.

You've also got a very wide inconjunct (150 degrees) between Transiting and Natal Uranus which could be uncomfortable (tho in an exciting way) -- but I'm not sure if it's really in effect yet at 3 degrees separation.

My guess: you'll probably live through it. Try to release whatever you're hanging onto. Pluto will fight you and WIN. Just let go. Surrender (the spiritual type of Surrender).

[mrgorth]

8. Thanks Eloriel

though, to be honest I don't understand everything you said. It's safe to assume that I've wished death on myself in the past year. Are you saying that you see something this bad in my chart? Also, are you saying that you think the worst is over or I that I just get a break until March? You're saying to let go but I'm fighting to keep my marriage together. If you're saying to let my marriage go that's pretty rough. If your saying not to fight, well, I just don't know how to do that. Thanks again.

[Eloriel]

9. Well, I'm not a marriage counselor

And I won't ask for details here, and couldn't give very good advice unless I had details (and don't want them, so don't PM me either).

And no, I'm not talking literal death, tho you confirmed what I WAS talking about: this particular transit stinks, and sucks, and makes you wish you were dead, or perhaps had never lived. My own Pluto square Pluto was one of the lowest, most desolate and hopeless periods in my lifetime, even tho outwardly not all THAT much was all that terrible was happening "TO" me. It just reached inside and tore me apart from the depths of my being.

Anyway, maybe I'm just a cynic, but don't try to hang on to a losing proposition. I mean, you can, but you won't win. There's an old saying, "if you love something, let it go. If it's yours, it will return. If it doesn't return, it was never yours to begin with." If there's a two-way effort going on to save this marriage, great. If not, you really have to take a look at what Reality is telling you.

My best advice would be to see a therapist -- not necessarily for a long period of time (unless you want to -- this is a great time to start in therapy), but at least a few times to give you some objective insight into how YOU feel, how the marriage is going, how she's behaving, etc. Very, very valuable.

You'll get through this, and it's worthwhile to consider that the PURPOSE of this type of transit is to bring up about the worst your heart can handle and excise it, and make you (ultimately) way stronger. My own Pluto square Pluto served as a catalyst for some important personal growth I ended up doing, but boy that catalyst wasn't at all pleasant to deal with.

Good luck.

[mrgorth]

10. I know you're not

I don't expect you to tell me whether I have a good marriage or not. It's just that some of the terminology you use is not clear to me. It sounds like you're saying I'm supposed to go through this horrible time. OK. I guess the only thing I'm still not sure of is if this is to end soon or if what you describe as coming in March will be just as bad. The big problem here is that I have 2 young kids and I feel as if I'm fighting for their survival. Thanks again and sorry to bother.

[Eloriel]

19. There's no way for me to tell

how it will be in June - July (not March) and then Sept - Oct. I'm not even sure it will be about the same things. Part if it is how well you handle everything now, and since I can't know what the "right answers" are for you (cosmically speaking), I can't be of much help.

Look, I can tell you this. As horrible and difficult as this period is for you right now, your destruction or unahppiness is NOT the aim of the stars (so to speak), or the Cosmos, or Universe or Creator or Gods. In fact, it is a benevolent universe, and the ultimate aim is your best interests, and your children's too. And your wife's.

Pluto dredges up what is no longer needed. Pluto's action is very rough -- like lancing a boil. Very tough love. But when you come out on the other side of this, as you absolutely will, you will be stronger and better. And your children will be okay. This is part of what they signed on for this lifetime. Honest.

So just do what you can to make it the most honest and loving thing, whatever it is. Face your deepest fears as courageously as you can (get therapy!). Be ready to give it all up, everything -- that may be what's required (what's actually best in the long run no matter how it looks right now), or your willingness to do so may just free up energy so that things work out more quickly.

I'm sorry for what you're going through. I hope it doesn't sound callous to simply remind you that lots of people go through divorce, and that if that's what happens, you WILL survive just as they have.

Please remember: this experience is ultimately for your highest good. Give yourself the support you need (therapy), and as I said, aim to go through it with as much courage, love and honesty as possible.

Hugs and best wishes,

Eloriel

[Dover]

11. Pluto square Pluto and other midlife transits

You might also pick up a copy of Robert Hand's book, Planets in Transit and read more. Or, if you have done a chart at Astrodienst's web site (even if only approximate on the time) your transits will show up there (with explanations by Robert Hand). The year of my P sq P, my Mother died and many things in my life 'died'. In retrospect I see how my life as I'd known it was going through a death and was all for the better. But who would ever voluntarily go through such pain to get there? The grieving period for all this 'death' in my life lasted for quite some time. But the Sun will come out again, and getting support during these trials from wherever you can find it, is essential. By the way, I'm not necessarily recommending the following author, just found this online in a search. Robert Hand is much better as are some other authors:

Mid-life Transit: Pluto Square Pluto

When you reach your late 30s you approach another turning point in life where you are given the opportunity to release the past and evolve further into your own authentic self. Having completed your Saturn Return, you are now looking at your midlife transits. Midlife is hallmarked by four major transits of the outer planets.

Because the orbit of each planet differs, these aspects will occur at different times or each person. Some generations did not experience them until they were more solidly into their 40s, but as of the writing of this article, they are occuring as early as age 36. To discover when these aspects are in effect you should sit down with an astrologer for a consultation.

The four transits will take you through approximately ages 36-45. They are:


Transiting Pluto square natal Pluto

Transiting Neptune square natal Neptune

Transiting Uranus opposite natal Uranus

Transiting Saturn opposite natal Saturn


To summarize the nature of the planets and their midlife transit effects:

Uranus is the planet of surprise, bringing sudden shocks, changes, upsetting issues situations, eccentricity and the unusual. Where Uranus sits natally, is transiting and rules is where you need to exercise more individuality and independence.

Neptune's nature is to confuse and obscure reality. You can end up feeling as though your existence and accomplishments up to now are worth nothing. You are faced with questioning yourself and working through things an emerging with a new spiritual connection - or you could escape reality buy delving into obsessions and addictions with sex, drugs, alcohol or lying.

The nature of Pluto is transformation, destruction and control in order to create something authentic. Where you have been playing around and not being serious, you will get serious now because everything will come to ashes around you and you will need to rebuild.

When these three outer planets have finished their wild ride with you, serious Saturn joins the fray for the final lesson around the age of 44/45. The nature of Saturn is limitations, restrictions, structures, discipline, reality and resistance. These are challenging, difficult and often painful situations in our lives. We may suffer from depression, repressed anger, physical illnesses (especially bones and teeth) due to the heavy responsibiities we are carrying in life - family relationships, work situations or attempts to pursue an authentic life. Mental illness is possible if a stable base cannot be formed in life. This is where astrology works! By being conscious and knowing where Saturn is in your chart you can make beneficial changes....cont'd

http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art21543.asp

[mrgorth]

12. WOW! Thanks

Do these transits happen in the order you mention or not necessarily?

[Dover]

13. More or less. As suggested, simply look at your chart to determine

when they will be in effect, or if they have already passed.

Because these transits are of the outer plantets your time of birth is not important as they will all have been at the same degree all day (and then some). So you'll be able to get an accurate set of dates for the current transits. The only thing that might not be accurate is their house placement in your chart which is determined by the time (as is the Moon's degree and the Ascendent).

I would highly recommend Howard Sasportas's book, The Gods of Change - Pain, Crisis and the Transits of Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, to be your guide through these difficult transits. It might be a little advanced for the novice of astrology, but pick up a copy and see if it's meaningful for you.

Also Liz Greene's book on Saturn is great for understanding Saturn transits and natal placements. And there are other good books on the individual outer planets that will cover this midlife period as well. But the first step is to get as accurate a chart as you can.

[Dover]

14. Oops...just saw the chart you posted. Well it looks like Pluto sq. Pluto

will be in effect through next year. Saturn will begin to SQUARE your natal Saturn in the summer of 2005 as well (but this is NOT to be confused with the midlife transit of Saturn which is an opposition by the transiting Saturn to it's natal position...though both are challenging in their own right). The square this summer may be the first test to whatever structures, projects (or relationships) began in your life during the Saturn return which took place probably in your late 20's/or around age 30.


And then the Neptune sq. Neptune and Uranus opposite Uranus transits will hit at the same time in 2010 (beginning in March). Then finally Saturn will oppose your natal Saturn beginning in October of 2012.

A good time for a reading from a local reputable astrologer or to take a class and learn more about how to create and interpret your own chart.

[mrgorth]

15. I guess I'd better

because the only part of that I understood is that Pluto sq. Pluto is painful and I've got a ways to go yet.;)

[Dover]

16. Well now you at least know the timing of these mid-life transits.

But if you want to focus on the more immediate ones, read up on Pluto square Pluto and Saturn square Saturn which will be in effect for another year 1/2 to two years. As I said, if you create a chart at Astrodienst's web site you can read about your transits daily as well as looking at the longer range forecasts.

Beyond that, I would highly recommend finding a good astrologer or undertaking a class.

[mrgorth]

17. Fuck!

Astrodient's site says my Pluto square Pluto starts in February! Agh! I don't suppose it's possible they're off by a year.:(

I don't know if I can deal with this getting worse.

[Dover]

18. It began early in 2004 and due to retrogrades, is sweeping slowly

back and forth over that sensitive point (degree) which squares your natal Pluto. So what the Astrodienst dates mean is that in looking ahead, February is when it will be active again (will hit that sensitive point). Although I'm a little confused by those dates if the chart you posted above is correct. Because if that's correct, you should be feeling it's effects beginning NOW and for several months to come.
Retrograde means it moves in apparent backward motion and then will change direction and move forward again.
And these outer planets move VERY slowly relative to the earth, which is why the transits last so long and usually feel more like a chronic condition rather than an acute pain.

A friend of mine once described it as being hit by a car, and then the car popping into reverse and hitting him again, then forward, then backward until he felt like there wasn't enough left of him to even be considered roadkill! Usually the situations that occur during the times it is most potent (exact) have a theme or thread that connects all these seemingly separate events, like a message that gets repeated until you finally, on the final direct and last pass of the planet over that sensitive spot...uncover or resolve the issue or finalize it in some way. At any rate Pluto, which is currently in a direct motion will retrograde one last time over that point on your chart next year and then that's it....though it's effects may resonate for some time in your changed life.
The best thing to understand about Pluto is that surrending to what needs to end and cooperating with the energy helps it to go much easier. Letting go and saying goodbye is a very difficult lesson for which there are few volunteers.

By the way, I noticed that Pluto crossed over your natal Mars in 2001 and 2002 which was probably pretty rough as well. So if you are in a bookstore looking at astrology books on transits, look at Pluto conjunct Mars. Probably brought up a lot of stuff then (anger, power struggles, issues around personal resources, feelings of wanting to dominate or being dominated....could even indicate violence). Sometimes reading about a big transit that has already happened helps to clarify those events with the added gift of retrospection.