Just got done watching The Secret

[mrgorth]

Here is something I sent to my Unity pastor and would appreciate thoughts on:

I just got done watching The Secret and found it very hopeful. I'm going to try affirming some things and see what happens. That said I have a couple of concerns. Of all the things in the universe I'm not sure of I've BEEN sure of a benevolent supreme being. However, if what The Secret says is true this is not the case. Such a supreme being, or "the universe" in this case, would almost seem left-hand-pathish. In this paradigm God is not a benevolent being that you can ask for help and you may get it depending on His plans. In The Secret's paradigm the universe is governed by one's knowledge of "the secret" and if you don't know it, well then you're basically fucked. For instance, some poor sap who happens to be a good guy but happens to have gotten himself into a lot of debt, will naturally fret about said debt, or about the relationship he doesn't have...whatever. According to the movie this guy is doomed to keep bringing this on himself because of the law of attraction. THis does not seem to me to be the work of a merciful God but of a cruel entity. I'd like your thoughts on this. Also, at one point in the movie it shows a well-built black man, blindfolded, playing with a metal ball. He is wearing a large, inverted pentacle. As a Christian, of some sort, this bothers me. Thoughts on this are welcome too.

[LaurenG]

1. If you know what you believe in

the stuff that doesn't fit can be left to the side. The old saying "take what you like and leave the rest" comes to mind.

In my reality, God/Goddess is in everything, omnipresent and omnipotent. So there is nothing that he/she isn't in. Like a diamond with many facets, if we are only looking at it from our perspective we miss all the other facets from other ways of viewing it. Our own spirit and soul are connected with God/Goddess and in turn everyone and everything else. As I've gone along the path there have been many opportunities to learn. Sometimes it isn't fun and sometimes it's so exciting I can barely stand it.

I realize that I may not always manifest what I think I want but it isn't because I've been bad, only that my soul in agreement with spirit can't give me what I'm not ready for. If my belief is that I am lacking and undeserving I will manifest what I think I deserve. Also, as I go along I have found I have excellent hindsight and foresight isn't as sharp but things make sense looking back (if we're far enough away to view them correctly) even if they were painful.

If you want something badly enough you will not cease until you have it, no matter how long it takes. Like attracts and what we think about expands and will manifest in one way or another. It's like a goal we set for ourselves. We work toward it and eventually get to our goal or change our minds and start on another goal. God/Goddess/Spirit won't intervene unless we ask for it and work toward it as well.

As far as the pentagram, it is an esoteric symbol.

"A "point down" pentacle is nothing new- nor is it necessarily Satanic when it appears as such. Historical depictions of the pentagram were as likely to be points down as point up- a distinction between one or the other was rarely made by the ancients. Even today, one must not assume a point down pentagram is Satanic, as it is just likely to be Masonic, Wiccan, or simply upside-down. Some inexperienced Wiccans will occasionally claim that a point down pentacle is Satanic, but such a symbol has at times represented the Wiccan horned God, and is still today an emblem of the Second Degree initiation in Gardnerian Wicca."


http://altreligion.about.com/library/weekly/aa100102a.htm

So it can be a symbol of initiation in to the earth based religions and not necessarily a negative thing.

:)

[lildreamer316]

2. I have a lot to say to you about this...

but I am not sure if you are ready to hear it.
Sorry if that sounds judgemental, but if what you wrote is really what you understood the movie to be saying, you have not grasped even one part of what it was trying to say.

Before I get into the explination, I am going to get a screencapture of the shot you are talking about. The man is wearing a five-pointed star, not a pentacle. Of course you can choose to interpret that as such, but the way it is fashioned is not the way most people who use the inverted pentacle draw it or use it. However, to make sure we all understand before proceeding with the explanation, I will post the screenshot first and we will go from there.

If you are REALLY interested in seeing this from the perspective it was intended, I suggest you go get Richard Bach's book "Running From Saftey". In the book he has a very clear and concise (and funny!) explination of exactly what is being said in the movie.

I will post more later.

[mrgorth]

3. .

:eyes:

[lildreamer316]

9. Exactly my point.

I am sorry that I do not have the patience to explain this to you. I feel others in this thread do a better job of it than I could anyway. It just really takes me aback that you would find that kind of association in the movie at all. Not that,as others have pointed out, the symbol itself is really anything to be afraid of, but again, that is another discussion entirely. I feel as if you are viewing the movie trying to find things that aren't there. Why would you assume that anyone in the movie would have any kind of association with something that you personally would find "evil"? Why would they want to do that? They are making the point that greed and malevolent intent bring exactly that. If they are trying to be greedy and lead you toward evil, why show you how they are doing it? Do you think they think you are dense or something? I can tell you for sure that people who are dense is not who this movie is made for. I also venture that if you have seen the movie, then Spirit has guided you to it for a purpose.

My view is that:

God is not benevolent or avenging. God IS. That's all. When you try to pigeonhole God into Old Testament "avenging" and New Testament "loving"; and then try to fit everything that happens into these definitions, it becomes impossible and does not make sense in logic; feeling; in spirit. Remember, the Bible was written by humans.


After your reaction I have no hope you would read this far or even give any consideration to what I have to say, but that is as it is, I must say it. Please open your mind and step out of the box. I am glad you asked someone you respect spiritually to help you understand it. However, I urge you to look within yourself and trust yourself for the answers. That is what this is all about.

Humans have lived in a state of hate and mistrust and separateness for eons. This does not work. It is not helpful. It is not loving. Does is surprise you that finally we are moving toward a time when it is ok to be loving to each other? To trust each other? To help each other grow in spirit? The old ways do not work. They predicate wars and death and stagnation and anger. This is part of the new way. It(The Secret) may not be the way you personally will grow to understanding the nature of Spirit. But, it is a powerful and unusually truthful way nonetheless. Everything is here for a reason, everything is part of the puzzle.

Why should happiness be hard to achieve?

I feel that you just need to take a few steps back, so you can get in the whole picture. You're seeing 1/10th of what's there.
Trust me,I know I'm only seeing 1/30th or so. The point is to KNOW that I DON'T know it all...there could be some other explanation.

My reaction to your initial post might have seemed judgmental, it is just that I have a hard time understanding how anyone could think this movie was not in line with Spirit and with Light. It resonates in my soul. I have faith that I am strong enough that if there were parts of the idea that were not in line with my best interests, I would know that too. I also am way past God as defined in the Bible as "benevolent" and expecting "him" to behave that way. The power does not lie outside myself. It is in me and all around me, and the spark of divinity is in everyone. I do not believe that everything others have told me is "evil" truly is until I explore the concept completely for myself. Symbols can be corrupted and used for evil things.
Isn't that what the GOP has done with many cherished American symbols?

Best of luck to you.

[Why Syzygy]

10. I have watched that film

over and over. Every day for the first week I got it. And I never noticed what that guy was wearing. I wish they had showed more of that. It was fascinating. Is there a name for it?

[I Have A Dream]

12. One thing that I hope that you'll take into account, lildreamer, is that..

it's possible that this is just not part of his path although it's a very big part of yours. He has to have the freedom here to ask these questions without feeling as though he's going to be attacked because someone feels strongly the opposite way. Otherwise, we've closed down the very purpose of this group, in my opinion.

We have to be really careful here to make sure that we don't take it personally when someone else here doesn't see the amazing things that we see in things. For me, it's the Ascended Masters. I can't believe that more people here aren't interested in them, and if someone were to say something negative about them, my first impulse would be to be personally insulted because they mean so much to me. However, I can't let my attachment to them make someone else feel as though they can never discuss them objectively stating their true feelings.

:pals:

[lildreamer316]

14. Yes...

That was why I apologized for not having the patience to explain what I was talking about. I also did say in the post that this may not be his particuar path to Spirit, even though it is part of mine. I just felt that he was not viewing it with an open mind--that he is too far in the box, so to speak. I just really had to say that, sorry.
I certainly respect his option to have any state of mind he does; but I just think these questions were so.....very far off the mark as to not be understandable? I feel as if he missed the whole point entirely. For example, in the other thread when some ppl were talking about the Roscurian (sp?) references in the movie and so forth, I certainly took that into consideration, and when I next viewed the movie was watching with a critical eye to see if anything did not ring "true" or was too pushy or even any attempts at sumbliminal things(Not that Rosc. would have bad intentions; but I would have felt decieved if they were not upfront about their complete involvement, etc.). I do find it a bit irritating that some of the teachers in the movie have online presences that are extremly pushy! Promising you instant enlightenment if you just spend the $150-$200 for their programs. I also find it telling that Joe Vitale is first and foremost an expert on selling ebooks--several of these things seem like schemes to me; but again, each to their own. It does not mean that the info they give in the movie is wrong or does not work. I guess I believe so strongly about that particular info because was made available to me for FREE. As of yet, I have paid absolutely NO money for any of the info, OR any of the subsequent info it has lead me to. I feel the universe has led me to this so that I could learn it and so that I would trust it, simply BECAUSE it was free is an indicator that it was so for me.
I guess it's not that I have a problem with him asking questions....that is absolutely fine with me. If we were one on one and I had the appropriate resources with me, I feel I would be able to explain to him about the questions he had. However, if he's not going to give it an open mind, the whole attempt is wasted anyway. And the Leo part of my personality does not have much patience with that kind of thing, especially if he's already approaching it from a negative point of view (upside down pentagram?=he thinks this is indicative of an "bad" religion/way of thinking). So in the frank and open part of my personality, I just don't think he is ready to understand this movie yet. That's not a judgement really, although many here may think so. I am not ready for the concept of h'opohoweveryouspellit. That kind of personal responsibility scares the crap outta me.
So, just mark it down to spiritual impatience. I really am not going to make it a practice to jump onto ppl asking questions about The Secret, the more questions the better. I guess I did not make myself very clear. I just...was trying to help someone open their mind a bit; and drop the negative view of anything that did not fit into their worldview.

[I Have A Dream]

15. One of the things that I love about you is your passion, lildreamer.

I know that your intentions were good. (I just want to be certain that my post's intention is clear.)


(On edit: I find it interesting that we came away with such different feelings about the original post in the thread. I've always found the original poster to be an honest seeker of truth, and I just saw this thread as being more of the same. I guess that was why I responded as I did.)

[Why Syzygy]

17. lil'd

We all have our trigger points. I read an email list and I guy I truly like posted something I found offensive this morning. He was stating his true state of mind, but skirting on the rules he himself has laid down for the group. I respectfully (hope) pointed this out. When someone seems to stomp on something we hold dear, it is natural to have a startle relfex. Especially as Leo. Danger is a good thing to respond to. You sensed danger and you responded appropriately for you in that circumstance. You now see that there was no danger, and you are walking a bit of the steam off. But you'll soon curl up and lay in the bright sunshine. :D

[suziedemocrat]

16. BRAVO!!!! Well said!!!

One of the things I hate about religious people is their "I'm right, you're wrong" (and maybe going to hell) judgmental attitude. You see it with all religions when people become fanatical. And, I hate to say it, you even see it with New Age people. That's one reason I'm becoming turned off by New Age thinking. I'm not interested in being "better" or "more evolved" than the next guy. I don't even know exactly what I believe, I'm sure not about to tell others what to believe. But, I also don't want others telling me that I should believe the way they do. I don't care if they are Catholics, Baptists, Jews, Muslims, or Wiccans. The path to peace is a personal one; we all can't take the same road. Once we realize that, things will be a little easier for everyone.

If the original poster reacted badly to "The Secret", I'd say follow your instincts, it may not be the right message for you. (at least right now) That does not diminish the value others have gotten from "The Secret."

[lildreamer316]

19. I agree...

and am truly sorry my post came off as such..I really did not want it to, but had immense trouble trying to frame my response the way it made any sense to me. I am in no position to preach to anyone; and really was not trying to...but my impatience got the better of me. Please know that I DO understand.

[suziedemocrat]

20. I regret my post too. I hate to preach too because my house is all glass!

And I know when you find something you really respond too, it is difficult to have others call it "evil" or whatever. A lot of what I said is in response to my own life and not this board.

[Why Syzygy]

21. You are so wise ..

I finished a book on Tao (the middle path/way) recently. It is not dogma. I thought I would pick it up and read it again asap, because I knew I didn't get it all the first time. It has sat for a few days.. and only today have I started to see how what they suggest is worthwhile. Today I have made peace with 2-3 problematic situations. And gained insight from a friend willing to tell the truth, which I believe will change my life. It was just my willingness to step in the middle way, to not judge, not condemn, not admire unduly (give credit where credit is due) .

Just an awesom day. By reaching out and asking . how can we heal this situation? I need this, what do you need?

[suziedemocrat]

23. What was the book? I love the Tao! n/t

[Why Syzygy]

24. The one I read

Is "The Tao of Sobriety". I have Thich Nhat Hanh's "Being Peace" which I will also be reading.
The practice of Tao is amazing and powerful. I wish I had started years ago.
What have you read?

[suziedemocrat]

25. Only the english/chinese version of Tao De Ching.

The one with the black and white photos by Jane English.

I was working with a guy from Hong Kong and we started talking about Religion and I told him I wanted to study Buddhism. He said he thought I'd like the Tao better, and suggested this version of the Tao De Ching. I instantly fell in love. Like poetry. That was years ago and I rarely pick up the book anymore. (I Should!)

This book and the Newton books (Destiny and Journey of Souls), and also some books by Doreen Virtue, are the spiritual books I responded to the most. I liked Newton because he wasn't dogmatic at all. His message was basically, this is what I think is going on from what I've seen hypnotizing people. Not like - this is the TRUTH!!! Believe it or be damned!!! His book was also very clinical and almost scientific, which I really liked.

BTW - it may be none of my business, but if you or a friend are struggling with addiction, may I recommend this book: Staying Clean & Sober: Complementary and Natural Strategies for Healing the Addicted Brain by Merlene Miller, M.A. and David Miller, Ph.D.
http://www.amazon.com/Staying-Clean-Sober-Complementary-Strategies/dp/158054391X/sr=1-1/qid=1158495157/ref=sr_1_1/002-0620140-1097638?ie=UTF8&s=books

They talk about Amino Acid therapy, which I think is very promising. One of my brothers has a crack problem, and I am convinced this is a brain malfunction. I think the addicts brain is screwed up to being with, then the substance abuse makes it worse. There is a test to take at the end of the book to see if you are at risk of addiction (or if you might have low serotonin levels.) I took the test and I scored very badly. I don't drink or take drugs, but I feel like I have some of the same problems my brother has. They describe several amino acids in the book and what each of them do and how they can help. I had already taken tyrosine and theanine after researching depression and anxiety, but I had never heard about taurine until I read that book. It sounded like just what I needed. Supposedly the body can make it but some vegetarians and people with liver problems are deficient. I have been a vegetarian for 20 years and liver problems run in my family (even the ones who don't drink.) I've been taking taurine for about a month. I recently moved and started a new job, usually very stressful events for me, but the taurine takes the edge off. The Japanese also use it for congestive heart failure.

But anyway, I think one day we will begin to understand more how the brain works and perhaps learn how to effectively treat addiction.

[Why Syzygy]

26. Thank you very much for this information ..

I don't mind admitting (Ann Richards is a shining example), that yes, I have struggled with these issues through the years. I've had some remarkable successes and some tragic failures. Dealing with any kind of emotional issue is very tiring, isn't it? We should champion ourselves for never giving up. I have a book about amino acid therapy, but haven't read it for years. I have had some good results using that method, but tend to forget what worked for me in the past. I'm glad it is working for you. I take an herb (kudzu) that dispels physical cravings. But the mental issues that are involved have to be addressed as well. We are body/mind/soul. Nothing can be left out.

I'm gathering many helpful tools and really appreciate you giving this one. It seems I used to be so much more disciplined regarding eating habits and taking supplements.

I'll also check the Tao book you mention. What I found interesting in the one I read is the art of detachment. To be involved and not involved at the same time. They use an example of chess, a game I have no mastery of, but love to play. You have to observe the individual pieces and their options, but also the board as a whole. The meditation method was very effective and instructional for me. It allows one to step back from the 'mind' and observe before making any decision to action. It can also be applied to interactions with others.

Coincidently, I have also been reading a very simple book about the art of listening. There are too many voices in the world that just never stop the chatter. For recognition perhaps. Needing validation. I hadn't realized to what extent I had become one of those. I've been practicing this listening skill and find it quite relaxing and an excellent tool for problem solving. If I actually listen (hear) the person with the problem, and give my inner voice who desires love, compassion and well-being the opportunity to speak softly, a resolution may present itself. That doesn't mean that some people are not still yelling. It means I cannot change that, and am free to move on. I'm still new at this. Still navigating the waters. My last method was to take a list of agreements to another to see if they are willing to agree on what each of us needs. What do you need. What do I. I found that there are some who think nothing of breaking agreements. And we all have unthinking moments. Don't hold onto to those. Or maybe we didn't understand each other in the first place. If I had listened to them and what they really want and need in the first place, I would have been better equipped to know what our agreement was. I cannot tell you how true this is. A wise friend once told me, if you listen to someone, they will in a short time tell you who they really are. Yet, when someone I recently loved told me he would tear my heart out, I didn't believe him. He was telling the truth.

[suziedemocrat]

27. Listening and detachment. Two very difficult things.

But great if we can get them down. Good luck to you.

[DemExpat]

4. I have just watched the beginning of this movie, but I want to respond

with my thoughts on one of the things that is bothering you with what clashed with your religious beliefs:

According to the movie this guy is doomed to keep bringing this on himself because of the law of attraction. This does not seem to me to be the work of a merciful God but of a cruel entity.

I have come to believe that God is the energy of Love/Light guiding (and sometimes pushing!) a soul to learn important lessons throughout possibly many lifetimes, and through my own painful lessons I have come to see this presenting the lessons to be experienced and learned from as NOT cruel at all - painful, but not cruel.

Suffering is often the tool to fast track learning from experiences - it is up to us to try to glean the lessons from them that will prevent the painful patterns from repeating themsleves.

All IMHO, mrgorth.

Is your pastor a Unitarian? I would be interested in what he/she has to say about this too.

:hi:

DemEx

[Why Syzygy]

5. You say, "hopeful".

Benevolent supreme being. Check. The Universe is benevolent and malevolent. Nature shows us both.
Benevolence means when someone asks for help they may or may not get it? I take it to mean, does no harm.

You said "fucked" to your pastor? hmm, that's interesting.

A "good guy" who gets himself into a lot of debt. How is getting oneself into debt considered being "good"? Isn't it just rather average? We all have free will and access to infinite information. Might the Universe be saying, "That path is not wholesome for you. Look for another". If any of our ancient ancestors did not follow their desire to eat, they didn't hang around very long. Does that mean the Universe is not benevolent? Is God so good that he created us to need food on a regular basis and then did not provide opportunities for that need to be satisfied? If someone is lonely, are they likely to dwell on that and never seek suitable companionship?

Please don't assume that you have been presented with the full spectrum of truth from one religious stance. There are many secrets, actually. Just as the movie portrays the emerald tablet as being hidden, much has been hidden through the ages. It is not "God's" fault, nor that of the Universe, that some people are greedy and prefer to try to stack the deck in their favor. I happen to believe that is the only "sin". To think of oneself as separate from All (including each and everyone and all things we experience). That is the only way the Secret can work, when all things have connection.

I guess the pentacle upsets you due to religious training. Things like that used to upset me too. In fact during one period of my life I was pretty radical about symbols and their "hidden" meanings. Now days, I find them all interesting and enjoy researching the roots of the symbol and how its original intention was used. They are just symbols, after all. Not the real thing they identified. They present a message. Sometimes messages are not understood as intended.

[Me.]

6. mrgorth,

I would like to suggest you view the video again for I think you missed some cogent points which might allay your fears. It says we are extensions of source energy, in other words, as we carry our parents DNA, we are also imprinted with the Creator’s DNA, we are as they say in the film, Magnificent Creators in our own right, we have been blessed with an amazing gift. We have also been given a free will, the ability to make our own choices. That will not be interfered with. We choose rightly or wrongly for ourselves, that is part of our life lesson. And along our journey, though life, most humans lose touch with their divinity. Fear interferes with our ability to see and know who we truly are, warps (if you will) our alignment. The point of the Secret and other teachings (for there are many methods of connecting to our source) is that we are mightily endowed with blessings. It is, however, up to us to acknowledge and choose to use our blessings.

What the Secret provides is one method for doing so, there are others. Not every shoe fits every person.

*shadow government*

[I Have A Dream]

7. Hi, mrgorth. I think that the movie said that The Secret is a neutral...

law similar to the law of gravity. The cause and effect in reference to "the secret" is not as readily apparent as the cause and effect in reference to gravity though, so it's been easier for those who have known"the secret" to keep it from the rest of humanity. However, I remember hearing throughout my life about the power of positive thinking.

There have been beings that work with the Light trying to get this information out; the information that the Ascended Masters have made public since the 1950s has contained the very same concept (i.e., Positive affirmations and visualization can be used to greatly aid manifestation), and a channeled being with whom I work has been teaching this for decades.

I don't think that "the secret" makes the concept of being able to ask for help and getting it depending upon the Universe's plans for your highest good no longer possible. I just think that it's another tool that the Universe has given to us.

In reference to the inverted pentacle, I don't remember this. However, it obviously didn't disturb me while I was watching it since I don't remember it.

I'm glad that you asked these questions. This is exactly what this forum is for, in my opinion. If you can't express your concerns here, where can you?

:hug:

[mrgorth]

8. Thank you

I'm not saying "The Secret" is wrong. I really don't know. But I examine everything I see and hear.

[Why Syzygy]

11. What if?

the hypothetical poor sap/good guy runs across the information presented in "The Secret"? This information is out there in a number of forms. What if he then decides to stop fretting and his new found skill (not fretting) opens a wonderful world of possibility and joy? I take by the context of your post that this good guy believes in a "good god". Did the Christian God ever command his people to fret? I think not. I've read the Bible. It says just the opposite. Who gave him the message that fretting was needed? And where did he get the new message? From "The Secret" or from "God"?

Did you ever hear the modern day parable of the man who was trapped in a flood? Forgive me for retelling if you have. He sat on top of his roof and prayed fervently for rescue. Some people in a boat came by and said, "get in". No, he had "faith", so he told them to go on and continued to pray. Later a helicopter came by and dropped a rope ladder. They motioned for him to climb up. No, he had "faith", so he waved them away. Eventually the flood waters overtook the town, and his life was lost. As he approached God in Heaven, he asked, WHY? I was good. I trusted you. And you let me drown! God said, "I sent a boat and a helicopter and you refused the rides. Welcome to Heaven".

[mrgorth]

13. I use that parable a lot.

Thanks.

[Pathwalker]

18. I only watched The Secret once, but I know it

has worked for me, on many occasions. But, it has also taught me valuable lessons other than manifesting things I've wanted/needed. Things such as perspective, discretion, etc.
I think - from your post - that you have forgotten the aspect about free will we humans have. Yeah, some "good guy" gets into debt, and while it may very well be natural to fret and worry, I can tell you from personal experience that in situations like this - changing your perspective about your situation CAN have a very powerful impact on your situation.
As Oprah (and The Secret) puts it: What you focus on - expands. By focusing on the DEBT - your debt will grow. Been there, done that, got the tee shirt. By focusing, purposely, on being grateful for the ability to pay each and every bill, the money to pay those bills arrives. What you focus on is a CHOICE, and the choice is yours to make. Does God/The Universe want us to make the correct choice, which will let us grow? Yes. But God/ The Universe isn't going to come down and force us to make the correct choice, because that would negate our right to Free Will. That's not cruelty - that's the wisdom to realize that often we humans learn far more from our mistakes than we do from making the correct choices. God/The Universe also knows far more about what's within the heart of each and every one of us than we do.
God/The Universe looks at us from the perspective of ETERNITY, and what may seem extremely important to one of us at a particular moment in "time" will not be as important when viewed from eternity. Our thought patterns have an important part in shaping our reality, and changing ANY thought pattern will impact your life. HOW you choose to think is a choice, a gift from God/The Universe. That - to me - is what "The Secret" is trying to teach.
As for the pentagram being bad or evil - bah! That symbol has meant other things far longer than the blasphemous lie spread by "Christians". Don't believe that propaganda. It's a lie, plain and simple.

(I hope this post makes sense - being sick has fried my brain. If it doesn't - please just disregard)
NB
:hi:

[Why Syzygy]

22. I needed to hear this > thank you

By focusing, purposely, on being grateful for the ability to pay each and every bill, the money to pay those bills arrives.

[bliss_eternal]

28. Please forgive my ignorance...

but what is "The Secret" and where can I find it? From reading the thread in it's entirety, I take it this is a film--a film I NEED to see! LOL!

Being a resourceful kinda' girl, I tried googling, but came across more criticism of the film than actual information. So if anyone would care to share with me about this and help me with where to find it (video rental stores, etc.) I'd GREATLY appreciate it!


Thanks!

bliss :)

[I Have A Dream]

29. Here's the link to the original thread about it.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=245&topic_id=22589&mesg_id=22589

:)

[bliss_eternal]

30. Oh Boy...!

...thanks, Dream! :):hi: