Constructive anger?

[lildreamer316]

I was driving today and was a tad irritated at my signifigant other about something. I kept on thinking and realized that sometimes "righetous anger" has been a positive motivating force in my life. Of course we see examples of that here on DU, but I wanted your thoughts on it. I am seeking a way to approach it so as to use it for the most positive in my life whenever I am feeling it ('cause I'm not perfect and it is SO gonna happen!)I guess I'm talking about that energy--to me, sometimes it feels empowering. But, on those days I am SUCH a Leo I think!!
I especially feel its' energy when I listen to some hard music (when I say I like everything, I really mean it....). It can be cathartic there too, but I am interested in your thoughts. Every emotion, I believe, has its' place, like everything else it is how you percieve it and use it.

[hippiechick]

1. mine:

I still have moments of rage (although I think they're primarily hormone driven as I seem to be starting perimenopause) over the drama with Mr. Creep this summer, and when I do, I simply can't sit still so I leash up HippieDog Hank and hit the trail near our house.

We've been averaging 4.5 miles per day. Prior to these 'outbursts', we were walking about 3 miles per day.

So if anything, by the time I work through it all I'll be healthier, thinner and a real knockout, thanks to Mr. Creep.

:evilgrin:

[I Have A Dream]

2. Depends upon what you mean by "righteous anger".

:shrug:

I have been told that anger and being out of balance (not being in control of my emotions) interferes with my ability to manifest what I want in my life. Since being told this, I've indeed found this to be true.

[DemExpat]

3. I believe that if one has a history of repressed feelings

form childhood, then learning how to express anger/rage is a very good thing - necessary in becoming whole.

But after that, the next step is to recognize situations that might warrant this righteous anger, to separate the "old" anger from the "righteous" present anger at a present situation, and to avoid dispersing the old energy thru expressed anger while manifesting something "better" for the greater good. Hard to explain this here....:silly:

This is how I see it after a repressed childhood, years of psychotherapy following which encouraged me to recognize, express, and process anger, and spiritual reading/practices and experiences which show me the "enlightened" step.

The problem I think is that lots of people on the spiritual path want to go to the final stage without dealing with the repressed feelings stage - and this will get people into trouble IMHO.
For a vital clue is being able to see present situations for WHAT THEY ARE, and not colored by unconscious feelings, and perceptions.

BTW - I deal with both stages all the time - still learning about expression of anger, separating the old from the present, and also trying to approach situations from a more spiritual stance.

And I agree - anger has sometimes been an excellent motivator and catalyst for me to get myself out of a situation or attitude and to move on. It helped me overcome many a barrier - to face down panic disorder, to be able to stand up for my children when their needs needed to be fought for in society and institutions, and to basically force myself to put my dysfunctional past at the background to raise and nurture my kids!

Yeah, anger (used positively) has been invaluable in my life.

DemEx

[DemExpat]

4. One other area of my life aided by using constructive anger

has been setting boundaries and limits with others in relationships with me. Because I grew up with little healthy sense of self - except to protect myself at all costs - I always attracted people into my life who could use my weakness to some extent for their ends. After learning about my anger and lack of boundaries I often tried by spiritual means to stop the encroachment, but in the end I got much better results with a potent stab of pin-pointed anger at boundary-encroachments, and these got the message across crystal clearly....surgical precision instruments :nuke:....but only if the anger is truly "reality-based" anger in the present and not backed up with an avalanche of older stuff.
:D

DemEx

[LWolf]

5. I don't buy "righteous" anger.

Anger is a real human response, and I get angry. I've never in my almost 5 decades of life, found that action spurred by anger accomplished a constructive purpose. Anger is destructive. I've never witnessed someone else's action driven by anger accomplish anything constructive, either.

While sometimes anger is legitimate and justified, I don't find that human expression of anger comes out "righteous."

The best response to anger, imo, is a cooling-off period, so that the response to whatever caused the anger has some semblance of reason.

As a younger person, I often found that attacking physical chores was a good release for destructive energy. The barn was never cleaner than when I went out there to "cool off."

These days, I've seen the pattern so many times that I don't even need to do that. I just need to get somewhere quiet where people will leave me alone long enough for the tension to drain.

I get angry about many things; I act on those things that cause anger. I just don't do it IN anger, or BECAUSE of anger. Those are the destructive responses. I respond to situations because they need response, not because of my emotional reaction.

[DemExpat]

6. I believe it is our cultures that have banned true anger

and thus have created a monster beneath.

Real, reality based anger doesn't have to be destructive!

What you seem to do is get angry, which is of course natural and necessary, and then act on it anyway while not "giving credit" :-) to the anger fuelling your action. That is good, too, but just another way of looking at it, IMO.

It is still the powerful feeling of anger spurring you to respond, you are just not responding in a rage (of repressed anger), which is indeed destructive IMO.

I have learned that real anger - in the moment - is never destructive.
Very effective and part of our communication tools that we have lost in the process of "civilizing" ourselves - maybe too far? :D

An eye-opener for me was to spend time in Italy with my brother and his wife and family - when I often felt people were getting angry, really pissed off and bashing one another they all just laughed and said that is how Italians comunicate!

This is a good discussion - on a subject that has been a major thread of learning and experience in my life.

:hi:

DemEx

[LWolf]

7. I'll have to agree to disagree.

That powerful feeling of anger is different than the powerful need to address a wrong. The need to "right" a wrong is a strong drive, but it isn't fueled by anger, but by empathy. Empathy for those suffering the wrong.

Anger is a powerful emotion, but it fuels a strike.

I don't know if we are on the same page about what anger is, though. When I get mad at my family, I'll tell them I'm mad at them. I don't throw a tantrum, and saying "I'm mad" is a signal to leave me alone. When I'm no longer "mad," then we can talk about what is bothering me. And vice-versa. Perhaps it is a cultural difference, but we don't deal with problems until the "anger" has been released without harm. We still recognize the issues, and we still don't like them, but that's not anger. That's a kind of unhappiness or discomfort that fuels a search for a solution, where anger fuels retribution.

I've never been to Europe; I used to include travel in my plans for the future, but I've let that go in the last several years. So I only know anger as I've seen and experienced it here in the States. I see people who use anger as an excuse for tantrums, for abusive behavior, for irresponsible behavior. I've seen anger as an excuse for disrespect. I've seen anger as an excuse for atrocities. I've never seen anger as a catharsis, or anger as a way to accomplish something constructive. I know here at DU there was a lot of talk before '04 about anger fueling the drive to take the WH back; I wasn't comfortable with that then, and it didn't seem to accomplish what the angry people wanted it to.

Have I been angry over the current state of affairs here in the U.S.? You bet. Angry enough to seek out some physical form of catharsis, on a daily basis I've torn down more than 500 feet of fence in the last year, so I've had a target. ;) I'm thinking aloud while I type, and I'm wondering if that anger has led to anything positive. It hasn't led me to oppose anything more strongly than I already did. It has led me to this:

Disgust with the Democratic Party for what I see as a weak, impotent response to every atrocity committed by the escaped inmates running the show, and a washing of my hands of the whole mess. I'm now angrier at my own party than I am the opposition, and am tempted to "punish" them by withholding my votes this fall. After all, I've done the "go along and hold my nose" thing. I've done the "speak up and make sure your voice is heard" thing. It's the ignoring of that voice that makes me angry.

If I act on the anger, and withhold my support and votes come November, what positive outcome will be achieved?

Or, should I back away, take some time, and come back to the table ready to talk about what CAN be done?

I think I'll head out to the barn; there's plenty of stuff out there to spend the anger/energy on. About 200 hours worth, if any angry people want to join me. When I'm done, I'll think about my votes this fall, and hopefully spend them strategically.

[DemExpat]

10. I found an article that perfectly expresses my view on anger....wow!

and it is most surprising :wow: to me that it is from a Muslim spiritual/community site!
(I am usually very put off by all organized religions)

But what is said here mirrors my views and experiences very well...it also mentions boundary setting that I learned to do (still learning!) and mentioned in my post above.

DemEx


http://www.crescentlife.com/psychissues/healthy_vs_unhealthy_anger.htm

Healthy vs. Unhealthy Expression of Anger
Anger is a natural and necessary emotion. Anger is anger, it is in itself neither right nor wrong, healthy nor unhealthy. It is the expression of anger that makes it healthy or unhealthy. When it is expressed appropriately within the context of a situation it is a necessary emotion. Feeling anger is different from expressing anger, and it is the inappropriate expression of anger that makes it unhealthy.

Not feeling any anger in a situation is just as unhealthy as expressing anger in a rageful, vengeful manner. eg: when we see a child being beaten cruelly, it is natural to feel anger, however this does NOT justify the inappropriate expression by yelling, screaming or beating the abuser. This is healthy anger.

Healthy Anger:
Healthy anger is appropriate to the situation that evokes it. Healthy expression of anger involves facing what makes you angry and an effort to set boundaries for yourself by determining what you will do in response to what makes you angry.
eg: When you do ________, I feel ______ , and to protect myself I will _________.

Healthy anger is not used to punish, is not violent, and is not used to intimidate, control or manipulate the other person. It is expressed, discussed and moved through.

Healthy anger is not stuffed down and ignored. Stuffed anger creates resentment and a myriad of physical, mental and emotional problems. Healthy anger is not expressed in passive-aggressive and manipulative ways.



Unhealthy Anger
Unhealthy Anger is a component of abusive relationships. This kind of anger or rage is experienced with great intensity and expressed likewise by screaming and yelling, physical expressions of anger, violence or threats of violence, sulking, manipulation, emotional blackmail, silent smoldering, and anger used to punish.

Rage is a shame-based expression of anger.

Rage is by definition abuse. They react to strong emotions with rage, i.e. feelings of fear, sadness, shame, inadequacy, guilt or loss convert to rage.

They were typically shamed or punished by their caretakers for expressing emotion when they were young; i.e.: "Be a man and don't cry", "Nice girls don't get angry" or "I'll give you something to cry about".

Raging gives the angry person a feeling of power - offsetting their shame and feelings of inadequacy.

Unexpressed anger related to childhood abuses often results in addictive problems later in life. To stuff down the feelings of shame, anger, isolation, fear, sadness and loss the abuse creates.

By pushing feelings down it is impossible to work through feelings and move past them, keeping the person trapped in a downward spiral.

[LWolf]

11. I liked the part about the expression of anger;

that resonates with me. I don't mind expressingthe anger; it doesn't do any good to pretend that we aren't angry!

A healthy expression, in my experience, would be something like, "I'm feeling really angry right now, and here's why: ___________."

American culture seems rampant with unhealthy expressions.

Healthy expression is good. I just don't think anger is a tool to accomplish anything; then it becomes a weapon, and is no longer healthy.

One example:

I can be angry about child abuse. That anger makes me want to attack and punish the abusers. When I actually take action, though, it's to address the needs of the abused, and that comes from empathy rather than anger. That may include reporting the abuse, and working to have the abuser/s incarcerated, or working to find a better environment for the abused, or working to get the abused into therapy, or all of the above. If I'm working to incarcerate, though, it's to protect others, not "punish."

If I'm making any sense at all here; if one more person walks into the room while I'm typing, and hovers over my shoulder, because they neeeeeed my attention, I'm going to get angry! Oops.

[Why Syzygy]

13. I hear what you're saying.

It may be that destructive anger attacks come from an inability to take full responsibility for oneself. I think we can look at the WH for a good example of someone who never took responsibility for his own actions and continues to cause a lot of damage and never RESOLVE an issue.

I agree with you on the child abuse stuff. Standing up for those who can't do it for themselves is not to punish. It is to rescue. To do what we can to make the world a better place. It will never be perfect, but I can't live with myself if I don't try.

In "The Tao of Sobriety" it talks about who to blame. There are stories about children who have suffered greatly. In these cases, their parents also suffered. And the parents before. It could go back to the Stone Age. Where does the buck stop if we are looking for the blame factor. I think our society, which is set up to punish, has done a lousy job of addressing the underlying issue. According to the psychology authors who wrote "The Tao..." pedophilia is one of the hardest things to cure and overcome. That doesn't mean the children don't need protection. It just means humanity has not yet come up with a viable solution. I've always had an unshakable faith in the human spirit. So many other answers have been found. We have the wheel, for example. Finding a solution for this one should never be abandoned. btw, "The Tao ..." goes on to say that assigning blame keeps us locked into a lose/lose situation. The only way to stop it is to stop judging and work for a loving solution.

[LWolf]

15. That's it!

It's not that we don't get angry, but that our solutions come from love, and that we leave the blame game behind. It's easy to blame, but hard to heal, when we come at problems from that perspective.

[Why Syzygy]

16. Anger is closely related,

if not directly, to blame. This is a new path for me. My mother is a very angry person and I have had my share too. It doesn't take anger to set boundaries. It takes self respect and respect for others. I can spoil a whole day if I feel violated and let that take over my mind. Why? What does that accomplish? Amazing thing is there are a whole lot of us who are willing to cooperate. It takes risk, to ask for what you need. Some are not there yet. They seem to believe that they get all the cookies in the jar and no one else can have any. I don't know what to say to them. Other than, someone put those cookies in the jar. Hello?

I love the way the participants in this forum process. Don't know what I would do without you.

[DemExpat]

17. I don't equate anger with punishment....

although I grew up doing so. One of the most difficult tasks for me has been to try to learn to express my anger without it turning into hate and rage. This was easy for me to do with my children, but not so easy with the George Bushes and Cheneys of the world.....


And it is interesting to have seen how the legal system here in The Netherlands has always tried to remove perpetrators of crimes (in the relational spheres) from society without any blame or punishment - in cases like child abuse etc. people are always sentenced to a mental health care facility and treatment and never to regular prison.

So here, too, it shows the cultural differences, and the US to me has always been a "dod-eat-dog" society in many respects.

And I think that healthy anger is an expression of love, (for self in establishing boundaries, and for others in motivating action) not hate or retribution. To me the inappropriate and pervasive expressions of anger in our world just show how far from our real - or healthy - feelings we often have come by our upbringing and our cultures.

DemEx

[DemExpat]

18. I agree, and after my meditation practice of Zen Buddhism

I also learned to not deny anger, but to accept it and act on it out of an inner place of balance.

DemEx

[Why Syzygy]

20. Do you think

anger might really be hurt? Long time ago someone told me it was an alert to danger.
I just spent my entire, what could have been a lovely summer, dancing with anger. With someone who I just don't understand. He got hurt. I got hurt. Anger solved nothing. It was a very inept way of dealing with what each of us needed. He started striking out in February! I didn't recognize that as a cry for help. Or anything. I still have no clue why his needs were not being met. But hurting me is not the way to get his needs met. Whatever they are. Asking for what we need is KEY. This is not taught in the classroom. If we don't ask, we never know. We just aSSUME. If someone just says, no, I'm not willing to, then we are free to pursue other options. A lot of people don't know thier own minds. What is true today might not be true tomorrow. That is where telling the truth enters.

Anger is showing a need. I need that road rager to not be endangering my safety, for example.
I need that we not live on a planet ruled by fear and greed. I don't get angry if the roommate doesn't put the toilet lid down. That's an annoyance. A heh. I need for other people to show respect. These needs are not always met. Because what is is. Getting myself into a state over it is not going to change what is. This summer was torture, but has taught me things I hope to never forget. I thought I had a right to be angry when he broke promises and ripped my heart out. But anger just isn't worth the price I pay. Heal the pain.

[DemExpat]

21. Certainly anger can be a mask for hurt,

Since the therapy I did was all about repressed childhood needs and feelings this is how I understand it. But this will IMO always be of past hurts (from parents, for example) being projected onto present relationships.....

But this is not healthy anger - this is unhealthy anger fuelled by an avalanche of old, unprocessed feelings. This is the anger that we see most prevalently in our world today.

But from my therapy and long experiences trying to deal with my anger - which was for the first time released to my consciousness in therapy - before that I was the sweetest, most anger-denying person I have ever known :D:D:D And acutely anxious and chronically depressed.....

I grew up terrified of my father's rage, and 100% incapable of even knowing what I felt or being able to express it. :-(

Healthy anger will be a warning that boundaries are not being respected IMO - getting into a long and drawn out war over it is the result of the repressed crap spilling over into the present situation and response....all IMHO.

DemEx

[Sanity Claws]

8. Yes

Anger can be a way of telling you that something is very wrong. However, having anger does not justify in striking out at someone. Rather, I think you have to process the emotion, see why it's there, and then take effective action to address whatever it is that made you angry.

[I Have A Dream]

9. I agree completely.

(Can't justify taking it out on people.)

[lildreamer316]

12. Thanks everyone..

lots to chew on....hmmmm.
I believe this is gonna take awhile.

[suziedemocrat]

14. I saw the Dali Lama in Denver in the 1990's and someone asked about anger.

He took written questions from people. One person asked something like - How do we get rid of the anger in the world. And the Dali Lama said that we don't want to - that anger is a valid emotion like any other. He went on to say we need to get rid of other things, but not anger. I wish I could remember it verbatim, but it was almost a decade ago. :-)

VERY COOL GUY by the way --- the Dali Lama --- seemed very youthful - like a very happy child!

[DemExpat]

19. Very cool, suzie!

I would agree with the great Dalai Lama here! :D

I remember watching the movie "Son of Man" years ago and being impressed with the version of Jesus being an angry, revolutionary man - not the perfectly peaceful one portrayed in Sunday School...

edit: although I do know that the Dalai Lama has spoken of anger as a negative emotion that needs transforming as well... perhaps this is what he means as well - the world needs anger and compassion, but the energy of anger should be transformed into love before acting on it.

So in LWolf's example of child abuse - let anger motivate us in society to act for the children, not to punish the abusers, but to get the child out of that situation and to look at what can be done to help them all.

DemEx

[cassiepriam]

22. Feelings are not good or bad.

It is what we do with them that can get us into trouble.
But yes, anger can be a positive motivating force
to make some needed changes in our lives.

Yes, it is how you perceive and use the feelings that is important.

From a karmic standpoint it is the intenet behind the behavior that is the key. If you use the anger to make something positive then it is fine. If the anger is used with a negative or harmful intent then that is not good.

A good example is Cindy Sheehan. Her rage and anger are obviously a motivating force behind her intent to stop the war the killing of innocents. It is a way for her to channel her feelings about her son's death in a constructive way. And the rage against Bush is always about stopping the killing. No bad karma there.